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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

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    #1892
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There is a recording from 2 weeks ago where DA Howard is saying how a Taser is a deadly weapon.

    Lol.

    That will be played at the trial, if it gets that far,


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    #1893
    Spon Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    How long does it take a person to cover 15 feet if they stopped and lunged at you?

    How long does it take a taser projectile to travel 15 feet and immobilise you?

    I'm going to guess about a second or two for the first one and a fraction of a second for the other one.

    The cop had to react. He reacted. It didn't work out very well for Brooks.

    Do I wish Brooks was killed, no I don't wish that.

    Do I think the cop was justified in shooting Brooks. Yes I do.

    Do I think it was an execution, no I don't.

    Do I think it was self defence, yes I do.

    Even if the shooting is "not justified" it doesn't mean Rolffe is a murderer or that he intended to do harm.

    It could just mean that in that chaotic moment that he simply made a mistake.


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    #1894
    Happyilylost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭Happyilylost


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    How long does it take a person to cover 15 feet if they stopped and lunged at you?

    How long does it take a taser projectile to travel 15 feet and immobilise you?

    I'm going to guess about a second or two for the first one and a fraction of a second for the other one.

    The cop had to react. He reacted. It didn't work out very well for Brooks.

    Do I wish Brooks was killed, no I don't wish that.

    Do I think the cop was justified in shooting Brooks. Yes I do.

    Do I think it was an execution, no I don't.

    Do I think it was self defence, yes I do.

    Hard to lunge when going in the opposite direction.

    Taser argument holds merit. But again. Brooks had fired the weapon. Not in the process of doing it. Police Officer reacted after not being hit and discharged his weapon while the deceased continued to flee. I don't see the immediate threat to life.


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    #1895
    Spon Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    Are you just going to pretend Northern Ireland doesn't exist?

    Or are you trying to remove Bloody Sunday, the Famine, UVF, IRA and the Rising from history?

    This is a country that knows too well what unchecked authority does.

    You're telling me because people watch football all of these disappear? Do you realize how insane that sounds?

    Where is the trauma?


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    #1896
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    How long does it take a person to cover 15 feet if they stopped and lunged at you?

    How long does it take a taser projectile to travel 15 feet and immobilise you?

    I'm going to guess about a second or two for the first one and a fraction of a second for the other one.

    The cop had to react. He reacted. It didn't work out very well for Brooks.

    Do I wish Brooks was killed, no I don't wish that.

    Do I think the cop was justified in shooting Brooks. Yes I do.

    Do I think it was an execution, no I don't.

    Do I think it was self defence, yes I do.

    He didn't stop and lunge though. He was shot in the back multiple times as he was running away. So you can just stop right there.
    The cop didn't have to react with lethal force, and in fact they should have worked to de-escalate and let the justice system mete out any punishment.
    His bosses who fired him and the DA who pressed murder charges, agrees.


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    #1897
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Hahhahhhahaha
    Enlighten us so, oh brilliant random Irish forum commenter, on how the role of American DA "normally" does their job. :pac:

    The DA is more interested in making the front page, than making a case.


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    #1898
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Danzy wrote: »
    There is a recording from 2 weeks ago where DA Howard is saying how a Taser is a deadly weapon.

    Lol.

    That will be played at the trial, if it gets that far,

    That doesn't matter at all.

    Its in the best interest of everyone involved that Rolfe gets charged. I know police bootlickers have a fetish for police getting away with murder, but with the current social climate this is a one and done case. He will be charged,


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    #1899
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Spon Farmer wrote: »
    Where is the trauma?

    Where is the trauma of British imperialism in Ireland?

    Do you realize how stupid that question sounds?


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    #1900
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    That doesn't matter at all.

    Its in the best interest of everyone involved that Rolfe gets charged. I know police bootlickers have a fetish for police getting away with murder, but with the current social climate this is a one and done case. He will be charged,

    He's already been charged brainiac. :rolleyes:

    He'll also walk.


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    #1901
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    And don't forget the very valid fear that Black men have in the US of arrests by police.

    It might be a valid fear but at what stage during the video footage did Brooks look scared? He didn't look one bit scared. And the cops did absolutely nothing to provoke fear in him.

    And being scared doesn't excuse Brooks actions. He violently resisted arrest, violently assaulted two cops, used force to steal the police taser, wilfully shot it at a cop.

    How does being scared justifiy that?

    Can every black man in America now resist arrest, assault cops, steal tasers, fire tasers at cops and justify it on the grounds that they are scared of cops?
    Don't forget that he was drunk and unable to react rationally.

    Again not an excuse. He wilfully endangered others when he got into the car and drove drunk. But leaving that aside, being drunk and committing a murder wouldn't get you off the murder charge so why is it being used as an excuse for Brook's actions?

    Being drunk isn't an excuse to react the way Brooks did.
    Don't forget the police were sober[/qoute]

    As he should have been.
    and should be able to de-escalate and use the least amount of action or force as they are demonstrably able to more often do when dealing with white people.

    There you go, bringing race into it. You've no proof whatsoever that Brooks was treated differently because he was black.

    The cops were perfectly entitled to arrest him for DUI. They were perfectly entitled to cuff him as is standard procedure for an arrest. The cops were acting perfectly reasonable, treating him with respect and then Brooks escalated the situation. He was foolish to do so. If he had complied, the chain of events that lead to his death wouldn't have happend and he would be alive today.
    Don't forget that Rayshard was shot in the back while running away, there was a second cop and there were other actions and options that could have been taken from start - finish.[/quote]

    Yes, there were other options. The cops could have let Brooks get away. The cops could have chased after him. The cops could have stood there and let Brooks shoot the taser at them again. They didn't do that. They reacted to being assaulted by a violent criminal and having a taser fired at them by a violent criminal.

    The court case, if it gets that far, will let us know if the cops acted reasonably. Time will tell.
    His bosses agree. Now he's fired.
    He's now facing 11 charges including murder.
    It's obviously not as 'case closed' as some would like.

    No, it is not a case closed matter. I've no problem with the cops being investigated.


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    #1902
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The DA is more interested in making the front page, than making a case.

    I think you'll find DA's historically tend to do just the opposite in police shooting cases.


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    #1903
    Spon Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    The analogy calls for you to imagine the reality that they DON'T get on fine.
    There's no trauma, because the actual reality is very different. You were asked to imagine. Also known as empathy?

    I've said this very same thing earlier on this thread and also on the Ahmaud thread and asked others to imagine if the British were still an occupying force disproportionately targeting, arresting, sentencing and killing Irish. Filling their private prisons with Irish after we became their slaves, because slavery turned into the 13th amendment with a "crime" clause. And how we'd feel seeing our countrymen and women brutally killed and filmed for our public consumption.
    Crickets every time.

    You are asking to imagine a thing that does not exist.

    That is hardly surprising you have been imagining the "police brutality" in this Brooks story that does not exist.

    None of the other actual incidents of police brutality have any relevance to this story.

    The video clearly shows two cops being patient and pleasant for 40 minutes.
    It shows the citizen being amiable and respectful for 40 minutes.

    There is no racism. There I no hatred. There is no fear. From either party.

    Brooks doesn't want to get in trouble and tries to talk his way out of it.
    The cops cannot just let him go because he did drive while drunk.

    He did not get in his his car and decide he was too drunk to drive. He got in his car and drove it.

    Anybody who does that in any country deserves to be arrested and charged.

    And again I point out that Brooks imitated the violence out of the blue after 40 minutes of behaving very amiable and calm.

    And he stole weapon and used it.

    Which is the part that changes everything.

    If Brooks had just fought the cops and ran away would Rolffe still have drawn his pistol and shot him?


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    #1904
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    He's already been charged brainiac. :rolleyes:

    He'll also walk.

    Convicted then. He wont walk. No one will allow it. No amount of authoritarian fetishizing is going to change the fact that its in the best interest of society that he goes away for a long time.

    American society is changing. Police chiefs aren't covering anymore. Whether its a cynical political move, or legitimate appeal for change, its in everyones interest he goes away.


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    #1905
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,462 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    How long does it take a person to cover 15 feet if they stopped and lunged at you?

    How long does it take a taser projectile to travel 15 feet and immobilise you?

    I'm going to guess about a second or two for the first one and a fraction of a second for the other one.

    The cop had to react. He reacted. It didn't work out very well for Brooks.

    Do I wish Brooks was killed, no I don't wish that.

    Do I think the cop was justified in shooting Brooks. Yes I do.

    Do I think it was an execution, no I don't.

    Do I think it was self defence, yes I do.

    he was running away. brooks was shot in the back. if he had been running towards the cop things would be different but he wasn't. we have video of what happened. speculation of what might have happened is not really relevant.


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    #1906
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,304 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    Where is the trauma of British imperialism in Ireland?

    Do you realize how stupid that question sounds?

    Ye yeh..

    Seriously, get out of the past

    Ireland and Britain have a tremendous relationship. Very strong ties culturally and socially....

    We all know of the past issues and relationships, but I live in the now....and the now, we have a great relationship with Britain. A relationship that both nations should be very proud of.


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    #1907
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,462 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    NotMOL wrote: »
    running away? But stopped to turn aim and aim at officer before firing the weapon

    he was shot in the back. hard to do if he was moving towards them.


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    #1908
    Spon Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    nofiller69 wrote: »
    Where is the trauma of British imperialism in Ireland?

    Do you realize how stupid that question sounds?

    Then answer the question instead of throwing out insults.

    If you are able.


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    #1909
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Happyilylost wrote: »
    Hard to lunge when going in the opposite direction.

    Taser argument holds merit. But again. Brooks had fired the weapon. Not in the process of doing it. Police Officer reacted after not being hit and discharged his weapon while the deceased continued to flee. I don't see the immediate threat to life.

    The taser had the capability of being fired two more times.

    Brooks first ran, stopped, turned and fired the taser at the cops. This action took a couple of seconds. He had the capability of repeating those actions again a few seconds later. The cop didn't give him the opportunity to do that.


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    #1910
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,304 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Spon Farmer wrote: »
    Even if the shooting is "not justified" it doesn't mean Rolffe is a murderer or that he intended to do harm.

    It could just mean that in that chaotic moment that he simply made a mistake.

    This is my thinking too. The office did not set out to kill.

    At best this is 3rd degree....


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    #1911
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,462 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Danzy wrote: »
    The DA has not received any evidence on this matter the body responsible for investigating and referring evidence on.

    Wait till he has a folder of evidence.

    When you remove your religious fervour, you are also just a random on an Irish forum.

    i presume he has seen all the video. is that not evidence?


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    #1912
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    .
    His bosses who fired him and the DA who pressed murder charges, agrees.

    Lots of people have different views.

    Like you say, you, his bosses and the DA have one view.

    Myself and others have a different view.

    Right now we don't know for sure which of us is right. The court case, or lack of one, will tell us which side is right.

    Until then we are all playing the guessing game.


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    #1913
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It might be a valid fear but at what stage during the video footage did Brooks look scared? He didn't look one bit scared. And the cops did absolutely nothing to provoke fear in him.

    And being scared doesn't excuse Brooks actions. He violently resisted arrest, violently assaulted two cops, used force to steal the police taser, wilfully shot it at a cop.

    How does being scared justifiy that?

    Can every black man in America now resist arrest, assault cops, steal tasers, fire tasers at cops and justify it on the grounds that they are scared of cops?



    Again not an excuse. He wilfully endangered others when he got into the car and drove drunk. But leaving that aside, being drunk and committing a murder wouldn't get you off the murder charge so why is it being used as an excuse for Brook's actions?

    Being drunk isn't an excuse to react the way Brooks did.


    Don't forget that Rayshard was shot in the back while running away, there was a second cop and there were other actions and options that could have been taken from start - finish.

    Yes, there were other options. The cops could have let Brooks get away. The cops could have chased after him. The cops could have stood there and let Brooks shoot the taser at them again. They didn't do that. They reacted to being assaulted by a violent criminal and having a taser fired at them by a violent criminal.

    The court case, if it gets that far, will let us know if the cops acted reasonably. Time will tell.



    No, it is not a case closed matter. I've no problem with the cops being investigated.[/QUOTE][/quote]

    You're invalidating someone else's experience as a Black man in America. I know that this is a fear the Black community have, and I was literally gobsmacked yesterday when I saw a Republican politician on national (global) tv acknowledging that fear and the fear and pain that Black families have when talking to their Black children about how to stay alive and unscathed in their society.
    You are seriously asking how can fear in the face of centuries of brutality against people who look like him can be justified? You know that comes across as lacking in any compassion or empathy, right?
    Being drunk is a factor.
    Being scared is a factor.

    Don't try and dismiss his fear as not being real or valid when "reasonable fear" is used in every cop defence case in order to get off the hook for their killings. So it's valid for a cop to feel fear in using lethal force, but his fear of that lethal force isn't valid? That's some mental gymnastics, 10/10!


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    #1914
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,304 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Lots of people have different views.

    Like you say, you, his bosses and the DA have one view.

    Myself and others have a different view.

    Right now we don't know for sure which of us is right. The court case, or lack of one, will tell us which side is right.

    Until then we are all playing the guessing game.

    His bosses and the DA showed nothing but cowardice....bowing to the mob......the "to be seen" thing to do now......


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    #1915
    Spon Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    he was running away. brooks was shot in the back. if he had been running towards the cop things would be different but he wasn't. we have video of what happened. speculation of what might have happened is not really relevant.

    Brooks had just fought and overpowered two men.

    He had fired the weapon he had stolen.

    He had shown himself to be a man of violenc.

    People here are asking me to imagine if Britain still ruled Ireland.

    Then they should also imagine what if Brooks hurts or killed an actual innocent person while he was fleeing with that dangerous weapon.

    then they'd be blaming the cop for not shooting him.:rolleyes:


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    #1916
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The taser had the capability of being fired two more times.

    Brooks first ran, stopped, turned and fired the taser at the cops. This action took a couple of seconds. He had the capability of repeating those actions again a few seconds later. The cop didn't give him the opportunity to do that.

    And if they ran in the opposite direction and increased the distance even more? Called for backup? Arrested him at a later point in time? As happens in two videos I have posted with white people resisting arrest, assaulting the police, chasing the cop (who ran from him) and one even stole his police car. What about when white mass murderers are calmly arrested? Surely the threat was there to keep killing?? No shots fired in any of those examples.


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    #1917
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    Spon Farmer wrote: »
    Then answer the question instead of throwing out insults.

    If you are able.

    Tell me if any of these are valid:

    1. Population not recovering since the famine

    2. Country being divided into two - Still causing severe issues today read: wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_and_the_Irish_border

    3. Terrorism and violence - The Troubles, Bloody Sunday, IRA, UVF, Car bombings, civilian casualties on both sides

    4. Ireland being a severely poor satellite state until recently - Due to the Anglo-Irish trade war severely limiting Ireland's ability to take part in global commerce and having to fend for itself during the Great Depression. Joining the EU eventually reversed the effects of this



    But I guess all of that is Okay because people watch football?


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    #1918
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    walshb wrote: »
    Ye yeh..

    Seriously, get out of the past

    Ireland and Britain have a tremendous relationship. Very strong ties culturally and socially....

    We all know of the past issues and relationships, but I live in the now....and the now, we have a great relationship with Britain. A relationship that both nations should be very proud of.

    I do notice a trend between authoritarian fetishists and pro-Britain sentiment. Im sorry but if the British ever encroach to that extent again in Ireland I will pick up a gun and do what Collins did.

    This 'good relationship' is built on Britain knowing its place and standing down.


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    #1919
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    You're invalidating someone else's experience as a Black man in America. I know that this is a fear the Black community have, and I was literally gobsmacked yesterday when I saw a Republican politician on national (global) tv acknowledging that fear and the fear and pain that Black families have when talking to their Black children about how to stay alive and unscathed in their society.
    You are seriously asking how can fear in the face of centuries of brutality against people who look like him can be justified? You know that comes across as lacking in any compassion or empathy, right?
    Being drunk is a factor.
    Being scared is a factor.

    Don't try and dismiss his fear as not being real or valid when "reasonable fear" is used in every cop defence case in order to get off the hook for their killings. So it's valid for a cop to feel fear in using lethal force, but his fear of that lethal force isn't valid? That's some mental gymnastics, 10/10!

    Fair enough. Lads, if you are black you don't have to obey laws or comply with lawful requests by cops.

    If you are black you can drink and drive.
    If you are black you can resist arrest.
    If you are black you can assault two police officers.
    If you are black you can steal a police taser.
    If yoy are black you can shoot it at a police officer.
    And if you are black you can put a police officer's life in danger by doing all of the above.

    And you should be allowed to do that because you are black.

    And if anyone challenges you, just tell them you are black and have a fear of the cops.

    That makes it all ok.

    Oh yeah, being drunk also makes the above ok. If you are black that is.


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    #1920
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Spon Farmer wrote: »
    Brooks had just fought and overpowered two men.

    He had fired the weapon he had stolen.

    He had shown himself to be a man of violenc.

    People here are asking me to imagine if Britain still ruled Ireland.

    Then they should also imagine what if Brooks hurts or killed an actual innocent person while he was fleeing with that dangerous weapon.

    then they'd be blaming the cop for not shooting him.:rolleyes:

    So the cop was scared, fear was a factor? But fear isn't allowed to be a factor for Rayshard...

    He was scared of the police. Who else would he be going after with a taser? The only innocent people at danger were the ones who's car was hit with the out of control trigger happy cop's bullet.

    Why are you conflating two different imagined scenarios as if that works. It's as simple as this: imagine the British police are the American police, Irish people are the Black and indigenous people and then imagine how that would feel. Go.


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    #1921
    nofiller69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭nofiller69


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Fair enough. Lads, if you are black you don't have to obey laws or comply with lawful requests by cops.

    If you are black you can drink and drive.
    If you are black you can resist arrest.
    If you are black you can assault two police officers.
    If you are black you can steal a police taser.
    If yoy are black you can shoot it at a police officer.
    And if you are black you can put a police officer's life in danger by doing all of the above.

    And you should be allowed to do that because you are black.

    And if anyone challenges you, just tell them you are black and have a fear of the cops.

    That makes it all ok.

    Oh yeah, being drunk also makes the above ok. If you are black that is.

    But you're right its not about race. Its about an criminal committing murder.

    Therefore he should be in jail.

    You're right.


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