Our doctors & nurses want a protected cycleway from the city to all hospitals

funnydoggy

Here's the petition to the City Council. This is a no brainer.


https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/cork-hospital-cycleway-1?just_launched=true


They've done enough for us, and now they are asking for something back.

Imagine cycling safely from Cork University Hospital/Cork University Maternity Hospital to Grand Parade and on to the South Infirmary Victoria University Hospital, all the while separated from cars and HGV trucks by protective barriers. On the way you pass the Bon Secours Hospital, UCC and the Mercy University Hospital. Health care workers have always cycled to work, and between the various city hospital campuses. But during the COVID19 pandemic, they were given a glimpse of what it might be like to cycle safely on the then quieter streets.


The traffic is back. Now as lockdown eases we urge Cork City Council to boldly implement measures that will protect us, and all citizens of Cork, who make these journeys. Clapping for healthcare workers is easy. Making the city better for all citizens requires vision and leadership.

The people of Cork were recently asked through social media: Would you like to see your front-line healthcare workers protected on their way to and from work? The response was unanimous: YES!

#CorkHospitalCycleway. A protected cycleway.

If this is something you'd be interested in? We'd love to hear from you. Are you a healthcare worker, patient, student or local business? What would this mean to you? Where do you work?

Tell us your story… We will pass on your views to the various executives in our hospitals, UCC, Cork City Council.

Let us remember the recent losses and sacrifices made by our front-line workers, by enacting a real and positive change to transform our city into a healthier, safer and more caring place to live and work.

whisky_galore

How many of them actually cycle?

j8wk2feszrnpao

whisky_galore wrote: »

How many of them actually cycle?

Looking at the proposed routes, it may get good usage. But it looks like a pipe dream. There’s no costing whatsoever. Some of routes in the diagram would require extensive purchases (the road behind UCC, Model Farm Road, ....). With recession ahead, this isn’t happening.

“The people of Cork were recently asked through social media: Would you like to see your front-line healthcare workers protected on their way to and from work? The response was unanimous: YES!”
Was anyone going to reply NO to such a question?

opus

Taken from RTE on the almost agreed program for government.

€1 million per day throughout the lifetime of the government will be spent on walking and cycling infrastructure.

Although given the council's love affair with cars in Cork, I don't expect much of this to be spent here.

whisky_galore

"Clapping for healthcare workers is easy."

So is putting up an online petition.

EnzoScifo

whisky_galore wrote: »

How many of them actually cycle?

quite a few

Tell me how

They'd hardly only allow nurses/Dr's to use the paths I'd imagine.

More of this is needed.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Tell me how wrote: »

They'd hardly only allow nurses/Dr's to use the paths I'd imagine.

More of this is needed.

It's for everyone it seems, but this is a campaign is ran by the IDE "Irish Doctors for the Environment"; so it's not "Our doctors & nurses want a protected cycleway from the city to all hospitals". There's no evidence that they ran a comprehensive vote in the hospitals and this is the feedback they got from the workers.

It's not something that we see nurses and front line workers crying out for. If it was costed, and the proposed money offered for cycleways or as a bump in pay for their efforts throughout COVID (and daily work in general), I wonder which they would go for.

The more I read the petition, the more it seems they are using COVID workers/losses to push their agenda. I'd be for more cycleways, but not a fan of the way they are trying to achieve it.

timmyjimmy

Bring it on. My other half lives in St. Lukes and works in the Mercy. She won't cycle to work due to Cork city the way motorists behave and intermittent infrastructure. Proper infrastructure can only be a good thing. More people on bikes = less people in Cars.

jimgoose

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Looking at the proposed routes, it may get good usage. But it looks like a pipe dream. There’s no costing whatsoever. Some of routes in the diagram would require extensive purchases (the road behind UCC, Model Farm Road, ....). With recession ahead, this isn’t happening.

“The people of Cork were recently asked through social media: Would you like to see your front-line healthcare workers protected on their way to and from work? The response was unanimous: YES!”
Was anyone going to reply NO to such a question?

Where is that proposed route map? Obviously this is a fine idea in principle, but would no doubt be horrendously expensive. And if it involves congesting the Model Farm Road much further I couldn't see myself supporting it, as I will not use the bus while this virus situation persists.

j8wk2feszrnpao

jimgoose wrote: »

Where is that proposed route map? Obviously this is a fine idea in principle, but would no doubt be horrendously expensive. And if it involves congesting the Model Farm Road much further I couldn't see myself supporting it, as I will not use the bus while this virus situation persists.

On the petition page: https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/cork-hospital-cycleway-1?just_launched=true
I'm assuming it's the yellow routes in the pic of Cork City

jimgoose

munstermagic11 wrote: »

On the petition page: https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/cork-hospital-cycleway-1?just_launched=true
I'm assuming it's the yellow routes in the pic of Cork City

Oh yes, I see now. Hmm, that looks like a good lot of traffic disruption.

j8wk2feszrnpao

jimgoose wrote: »

Oh yes, I see now. Hmm, that looks like a good lot of traffic disruption.

Depends on the work, but they haven't included any of that on the page. If they are looking for a fully segregated cycle way, that's gonna involve buying up people's garden spaces (much like the proposed bus lanes for the Wilton Road), which means a huge amount of money, which they haven't costed or proposed how to raise that money.

If they want less traffic; then close some of the staff parking at CUH and others, ensure Government have more people working from home, ...... some smaller/easier changes to implement.

namloc1980

TheBoyConor wrote: »

There simply wouldn't be the space to put in any significant continuous length of segregated cycle track in most places. To do so would require significant CPO of land at huge cost and likely face massive opposition.

If this was so easily done, it would have been already done.

Many of the easy win cycle lanes are already in place, where there was sufficient space on the road. Now, any further cycle lanes are are going to be increasingly difficult to plan and construct and the cost will be greater.

Anyway, segregated cycle lanes are not something that should be encouraged in city centres - that just reinforces the traditional method of segregation of road users, encourages higher vehicular speeds and marginalises pedestrians and cyclists. Should be looking for more shared space type setups.

No, shared spaces are dreadful. Look at the ****show of Alfred Street and South Main Street where car drivers routinely encroach and park on cycling facilities because they are not protected and segregated. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here, the Dutch are world leaders in cycling and active infrastructure and do this largely on the basis of segregated and protected facilities. This notion of shared spaces increases conflict between road users.

More active travel is good for cities. I can't believe that in 2020 were still arguing against this.

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Depends on the work, but they haven't included any of that on the page. If they are looking for a fully segregated cycle way, that's gonna involve buying up people's garden spaces (much like the proposed bus lanes for the Wilton Road), which means a huge amount of money, which they haven't costed or proposed how to raise that money.

If they want less traffic; then close some of the staff parking at CUH and others, ensure Government have more people working from home, ...... some smaller/easier changes to implement.

Their role isn't to propose how to fund this, they are campaigning for better facilities for vulnerable road users. That's what campaigns like this generally do.

TheChizler

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Most of the people proposing such things haven't a faintest clue of the complexities of it all beyond signing a petition that they only half read while half asleep in bed.

I don't think anyone is assuming this is an easy thing to do, the point of the petition is to get the council to realize that a lot of people are unhappy with the current situation and to give them an idea of what they want. It's not their job to come up with a full blown and costed solution.

Even if they had come up with a consultant-level proposal and if by some miracle the council woke up tomorrow and decided to implement, they still would have to go and do their own full blown consulation, rendering the original one pointless. Cause god knows the council love to delay and defer to consultants in the absence of standing by their own decisions.

Even a temporary thing like in Dublin with new painted lanes and plastic barriers for the summer would be fantastic and restore my faith in the council, but that would involve showing initiative and an interest in improving the city for the people in it.

I've got very cynical this whole crisis...

namloc1980

TheBoyConor wrote: »

The thing about the dutch is, they have big wide open streets in a lot of cases where this can be done with relative ease. Roads and streets in Irish cities are much narrower and there simply isn't the room to give everyone their own dedicated space in every which direction.

People need to realise that there is a finite amount of road space and that if you give space over to one thing, you are taking it away from something else.

Have your ever been to Amsterdam or Nijmegen. Not many big open wide streets there I'm afraid. More active and sustainable travel means less cars on the road. Cork isn't unique, Europe is full of old medieval cities with narrower streets than we have here and yet somehow they manage to give priority to active and sustainable transport. The City Council mantra that Cork is unique so we can't do any of these things seems to be gaining traction out there.

titan18

There would be zero space on the road by the Bons and UCC for a cycle lane unless you closed a lane completely. That's a narrow enough road that you couldn't really do it.

Not sure if there already is or isn't a lane there but i'd assume Western Road and Victoria Cross could accommodate one.

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

Their role isn't to propose how to fund this, they are campaigning for better facilities for vulnerable road users. That's what campaigns like this generally do.

Then do it in a proper and meaningful manner. Not use COVID19 as their means for their agenda. I'd feel similar if someone was suggesting tax benefits for single use car travel instead of packing people on buses as COVID19 will be here for sometime.

This is a waste of time. If they are suggesting it (which is nothing new) then at least state how much it's gonna cost (given it'll be the tax payer funding it) as they are campaigning for something very specific. Very disingenuous to use COVID19 like this.

maestroamado

Probably good idea but it take 100 years to get it put in place. I had this conversation with a friend some years ago and he said.
"our roads were built for bikes and a lot of them are still only suitable for bikes"
Now we have HGV, cars, farm machinery and biles sharing this space.
I know loads of roads and if we use the 1.5 metre rule i see on tv cars it be impossible for a car and bike to meet without breaking.
Our planning has being haywire and it take a long time to recover when things that should have being done in past were left undone.

jimgoose

titan18 wrote: »

There would be zero space on the road by the Bons and UCC for a cycle lane unless you closed a lane completely. That's a narrow enough road that you couldn't really do it.

Not sure if there already is or isn't a lane there but i'd assume Western Road and Victoria Cross could accommodate one.

Making College Road one-way as far as Tom Barry's and Barrack Street/Magazine Road one-way back out might help and be relatively doable.

TheChizler

titan18 wrote: »

There would be zero space on the road by the Bons and UCC for a cycle lane unless you closed a lane completely. That's a narrow enough road that you couldn't really do it.

Would have been a perfect opportunity to do this (as a trial) months ago while traffic levels were at their lowest in years, opportunity is gone now though.

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Then do it in a proper and meaningful manner. Not use COVID19 as their means for their agenda. I'd feel similar if someone was suggesting tax benefits for single use car travel instead of packing people on buses as COVID19 will be here for sometime.

This is a waste of time. If they are suggesting it (which is nothing new) then at least state how much it's gonna cost (given it'll be the tax payer funding it) as they are campaigning for something very specific. Very disingenuous to use COVID19 like this.

So we're having a go at healthcare providers now are we? Jesus wept. I presume you take the same approach to all sorts of campaigns?

People campaigning for better health care? Sorry, we're not listening to you until you have a fully costed plan.

You want better public transport? Well you better employ some consultants first. Get a grip.

opus

EnzoScifo wrote: »

quite a few

There are a few of them (unless they're paid actors!) for a photoshoot yesterday.

https://twitter.com/CorkCyclingCrew/status/1272230816236666884

namloc1980

jimgoose wrote: »

Making College Road one-way as far as Tom Barry's and Glasheen Road/Magazine Road one-way back out might help and be relatively doable.

Of course it's possible but inertia and doing nothing is the mantra in City Hall.

j8wk2feszrnpao

There's no comparison between Cork and Amsterdam (I city have been to). Flat as a pancake and way better weather than us.

The one-way option for College Road suggested by jimgoose could be an idea. Road is narrow enough at times, a one-way system might suit there. Remove a lot of staff parking (if doctors/nurses really are for this) except for disabled parking. A trial would be interesting.

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

So we're having a go at healthcare providers now are we? Jesus wept. I presume you take the same approach to all sorts of campaigns?

People campaigning for better health care? Sorry, we're not listening to you until you have a fully costed plan.

You want better public transport? Well you better employ some consultants first. Get a grip.

Making stuff again are we?
Can you ever stop with the lies?

there's a huge % against pedestrianisation and cycle routes etc.
They believe that anything that prevents the private car access to any street or area that's currently possible to park on is key to the demise of the city centre.

Folk need to accept that shopping centres are here to stay and that no one wants to drive to the city centre for the weekly shop.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

Making College Road one-way as far as Tom Barry's and Glasheen Road/Magazine Road one-way back out might help and be relatively doable.

Isn't Tom Barry's on Barrack Street?
Apologies if I'm missing something as I've not been in Cork much of late.

TheChizler

munstermagic11 wrote: »

There's no comparison between Cork and Amsterdam (I city have been to).

Anyone have a link to that map of all the hills in Cork that was posted lately? Basically it disproved the myth that outside of a few stand-out hills that Cork City is too steep for cycling.

If anything, more segregated cycle lanes are needed on the roads that are in any way steep. How often have you been behind (and hopefully overtaken safely) someone pushing their way slowly but surely up the Wilton Road? Imagine how much safer it would be for someone on a bike, and ever so slightly more convenient for someone in a car, if they didn't have to share a lane at this point?

jimgoose

Augeo wrote: »

Isn't Tom Barry's on Barrack Street?
Apologies if I'm missing something as I've not been in Cork much of late.

Yes, of course - Barracka becomes Glasheen Road after a few hundred yards or so.