New government

ganmo

Castlekeeper wrote: »

The 7% reduction is from the international Paris Agreement and is already signed up to by our Govt through Enda some years back, it has nothing to do with the Green Party but with governments from around the world.

Was it a 7% overall reduction.
The 7% the greens wanted was a year on year reduction meaning we'd be looking at a 25% reduction over 4 years, it would be just not possible.

Dunedin

endainoz wrote: »

I'm not sure what "idiotic policy" you are referring to.

Pretty much all of them I’d say

Castlekeeper

ganmo wrote: »

Was it a 7% overall reduction.
The 7% the greens wanted was a year on year reduction meaning we'd be looking at a 25% reduction over 4 years, it would be just not possible.

1990 levels minus 40% is he basic Paris agreement with individual adjustments and clauses.
There's still a huge level of ignorance and denial of the challenge ahead, and this "blame the greens" sh!t is up there with the brexsh!t mentality.
Here's an article from 2015 here that gives a good outline.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/paris-agreement-profound-changes-ahead-for-ireland-1.2465016

endainoz

Dunedin wrote: »

Pretty much all of them I’d say

Not much point arguing a point when the person's mind is clearly made up already. Too much ignorance I'm afraid.

Donegalforever

Deleted User wrote: »

Be afraid. The Green politicians don't have a farming background. They understand nothing about the Countryside. I may have problems with modern agricultural practices but these zealots understand nothing and digest dogma as fact.

That is because they really belong to a different planet.

richie123

endainoz wrote: »

We make nothing from our natural resources, you can thank Ray Burke for that.

We make nothing from our resources because we have neither expertise nor the money to exploit such resources.

endainoz

richie123 wrote: »

We make nothing from our resources because we have neither expertise nor the money to exploit such resources.

Rubbish, any country with natural resources gets experts in and nationalises them. You might have heard of statoil? Norway did that and are one of the richest countries in the world.

richie123

endainoz wrote: »

Rubbish, any country with natural resources gets experts in and nationalises them. You might have heard of statoil? Norway did that and are one of the richest countries in the world.

We are 200 billion in dept and have always being in dept ..we haven't got money for social housing or health and you want to borrow to drill for oil and gas.
Always ask the question why and you won't be long about finding answers.

dh1985

endainoz wrote: »

They'll get blamed for any unpopular environmental decision now even if it has nothing to do with them.

Time and time again the diesel cars thing comes up, yes it was the wrong decision but they didn't know about the emissions figures being made up either. You'd swear it was the only bad policy a political party ever had.

With all that said I still think Ryan is a bit of an embarrassment every time he speaks.

Just on one point, the emissions figures been skewed by car manufacturers was not the problem. This is a separate issue. The incorrect.understanding of the seriousness of NOx as an pollutant over CO2 was the problem. This issue lies solely at the politicians of europe.

dh1985

dh1985 wrote: »

Just on one point, the emissions figures been skewed by car manufacturers was not the problem. This is a separate issue. The incorrect.understanding of the seriousness of NOx as an pollutant over CO2 was the problem. This issue lies solely at the politicians of europe.

Exactly thanks for posting this, their policy on car tax was wrong when it was proposed it was common knowledge with anyone who knew anything about cars, engineering, physics or reality!


I'm really worried for those of us who buy older reliable cars and maintain them ourselves for cheap transport, this will not be possible anytime soon with electric cars but things can change fast I suppose.

endainoz

richie123 wrote: »

We are 200 billion in dept and have always being in dept ..we haven't got money for social housing or health and you want to borrow to drill for oil and gas.
Always ask the question why and you won't be long about finding answers.

I already gave the reason why in a previous post, all of Ireland's gas and oil was given away in the 80s for a meagre sum and that's why we make no money from it whatsoever. The simple fact is that if we did it right, like Norway did at around the same time by the way, you can guarantee we wouldn't be 200 billion in debt. This was due to corruption.

The low estimates of the figure Ireland lost out on is estimated to be around 420 billion. You can thank Fianna fail for that by the way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/conned-a-german-view-of-ireland-1.1454115%3fmode=amp

I also said nothing about wanting to borrow to drill for it in 2020, don't know where you got that from.

richie123

endainoz wrote: »

I already gave the reason why in a previous post, all of Ireland's gas and oil was given away in the 80s for a meagre sum and that's why we make no money from it whatsoever. The simple fact is that if we did it right, like Norway did at around the same time by the way, you can guarantee we wouldn't be 200 billion in debt. This was due to corruption.

The low estimates of the figure Ireland lost out on is estimated to be around 420 billion. You can thank Fianna fail for that by the way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/conned-a-german-view-of-ireland-1.1454115%3fmode=amp

I also said nothing about wanting to borrow to drill for it in 2020, don't know where you got that from.

The oil fields in Norway are way more profitable.
Oilfields in Irish waters far more difficult and very expensive.
You suggested we should go it ourselves alone which requires borrowing a serious amount of money ...was never gonna happen.

Good loser

endainoz wrote: »

I already gave the reason why in a previous post, all of Ireland's gas and oil was given away in the 80s for a meagre sum and that's why we make no money from it whatsoever. The simple fact is that if we did it right, like Norway did at around the same time by the way, you can guarantee we wouldn't be 200 billion in debt. This was due to corruption.

The low estimates of the figure Ireland lost out on is estimated to be around 420 billion. You can thank Fianna fail for that by the way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/conned-a-german-view-of-ireland-1.1454115%3fmode=amp

I also said nothing about wanting to borrow to drill for it in 2020, don't know where you got that from.

What's that €420 bn referring to?


My recollection is that the Corrib field cost €1 bn to develop. And that it's remaining life is about 10 years.
Ireland could never charge much for oil/gas because so many of the wells were duds.

endainoz

Good loser wrote: »

What's that €420 bn referring to?


My recollection is that the Corrib field cost €1 bn to develop. And that it's remaining life is about 10 years.
Ireland could never charge much for oil/gas because so many of the wells were duds.

The figure comes from this article.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/gas-oil-robbery

Anyway this is getting very much off topic, there's nothing we can do about it now.

Castlekeeper

Says a lot for the PFG that, apart from a few banal generalities, there hasn't been tested usual organised clamour of anti-green scaremongering.
I think it's a really positive document for society and especially agriculture and the environment with scope for a lot of investment and development.

richie123

endainoz wrote: »

The figure comes from this article.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/gas-oil-robbery

Anyway this is getting very much off topic, there's nothing we can do about it now.

There was nothing we could ever do about it.

djmc

My own views on it are most urban politicians have very little understanding of rural affairs and most green party members are from urban areas. I am all for some of their ideas though like changing some rules around land eligiblity https://www.thatsfarming.com/news/maintaining-cap-budget-is-top-priority-of-new-government
I don't see the point in having to spray rushs with chemical on wet land in order to claim payment with a few suckler cows etc. The main worry I have is who will pay for new environment schemes the government or the farmer's and with no increase to the cap budget I think it could well be the farmer's.

twin_beacon

kk.man wrote: »

And what about Ryan driving out of the Dáil Éireann in a VW van with enough space to bring a school tour

its a 03 VW that runs on bio diesel, the newer diesel engines wont run on it

as someone that commutes 70km each way to work, and uses kerosene to heat the house, I am very concerned about the new government.

endainoz

For anyone interested in reading the document before resorting to hysteria.


https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/06/draft-programme-for-govt.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0aVrPqfRCTwG0nf6OGogoLidpT16_5la6HED5Tcf9klpGmK-Y1o3vkx2g

Castlekeeper

endainoz wrote: »

For anyone interested in reading the document before resorting to hysteria.


https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/06/draft-programme-for-govt.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0aVrPqfRCTwG0nf6OGogoLidpT16_5la6HED5Tcf9klpGmK-Y1o3vkx2g

And here's a link to a summary the main agri-environment points;
https://twitter.com/MORANEnv/status/1272605925824741376?s=09

Donegalforever

endainoz wrote: »

We make nothing from our natural resources, you can thank Ray Burke for that.

Yes, Ray Burke seemed to have been very generous with our natural resources.
I should have been looked into.

CrabRevolution

endainoz wrote: »

The figure comes from this article.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/gas-oil-robbery

Anyway this is getting very much off topic, there's nothing we can do about it now.

That figure is based on the notion that every cent of oil and gas in Ireland would be extracted based on the prices and tax measures that were already out of date the time of writing (2009 at the latest).

Its also based on extraction from the rockall and porcupine basins, which haven't had one fart's worth of gas extracted aside from test drillings. We've also yet to have one mililitre of commercial oil extracted from Irish territory so the loss there is a stinging €0.

It also neglects to mention that the taxes payable on oil and gas extraction in Ireland have also risen numerous times over the last decade. Licenses are only granted for a few years, so there are no operators still paying tax based on the rates from 1987.

addaword

richie123 wrote: »

We are 200 billion in dept and have always being in dept ..we haven't got money for social housing or health and you want to borrow to drill for oil and gas.
Always ask the question why and you won't be long about finding answers.

We cannot build a childrens hospital ourselves efficiently, we could hardly drill for oil ourselves efficiently in one of the most hostile offshore environments in the world. It was never going to happen.

Siamsa Sessions

addaword wrote: »

We cannot build a childrens hospital ourselves efficiently, we could hardly drill for oil ourselves efficiently in one of the most hostile offshore environments in the world. It was never going to happen.

The "we" you mention is a small group of insecure civil servants, TDs, and business community who either can't or chose not to put the community first.

I don't mean to pick on you for a second, but "we" as a country does not exist.

_Brian

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

The "we" you mention is a small group of insecure civil servants, TDs, and business community who either can't or chose not to put the community first.

I don't mean to pick on you for a second, but "we" as a country does not exist.

The “we” as in community spirit is less and less and becoming very fractured I would agree.

The “we” as a nation exists no matter what you think. We as a society elect political leaders, who, no matter if you personally voted for them, they enact legislation to govern the nation.

You don’t get to opt out of the “we” as a nation because the party you voted for isn’t in government. You must live by the rules, accept what comes your way, you can be a rubbish member of society if you wish but still part of the society we live in.

It’s a juvenile attitude that somehow you can throw a tantrum and not be part of society. You will drive on the left, stop at red lights, pay for goods rather than steal them. You no matter how much you think otherwise are part of the “we” that is Irish society.

So yes, when the poster said “we” have made a ****tshow out of the children’s hospital they are dead right, we have.

Siamsa Sessions

_Brian wrote: »

The “we” as in community spirit is less and less and becoming very fractured I would agree.

The “we” as a nation exists no matter what you think. We as a society elect political leaders, who, no matter if you personally voted for them, they enact legislation to govern the nation.

You don’t get to opt out of the “we” as a nation because the party you voted for isn’t in government. You must live by the rules, accept what comes your way, you can be a rubbish member of society if you wish but still part of the society we live in.

It’s a juvenile attitude that somehow you can throw a tantrum and not be part of society. You will drive on the left, stop at red lights, pay for goods rather than steal them. You no matter how much you think otherwise are part of the “we” that is Irish society.

So yes, when the poster said “we” have made a ****tshow out of the children’s hospital they are dead right, we have.

I'm not abdicating responsibilities for a second. People get the politicians that most people vote for. We could have a massive discussion here about democracy and people engaging or not engaging.

There's a very big disconnect between us humble voters and what happens at political level. You could list examples all day that "we" voters have no say in and can't hold anybody to account for.

As with the growing distance between urban and rural dwellers, the space between official decisions and people on the ground is getting larger all the time. As more power in centralised in Dublin, there is less accountability at local level.

You could also look at it from a farming-food viewpoint. "We" as farmers are part of the food supply chain, but does that mean we should always be lumped in with processors and retailers? From one viewpoint, I'd say yes. But that would be a very narrow interpretation.

My only point is that "we" is not straightforward and given how modern democracies function, sometimes 5 million people make a decision but sometimes less than 50 unelected, unaccountable people make a decision for those 5 million.

Good loser

endainoz wrote: »

The figure comes from this article.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/gas-oil-robbery

Anyway this is getting very much off topic, there's nothing we can do about it now.

You're having a laugh aren't you?


No serious (or sane) person would take any notice of any document those charlatans produced. Must have run the most mind numbingly, farcical and protracted campaign this country has ever had to tolerate.