FF/FG/Green Next Government

TCDStudent1

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Who's going to challenge FF and FG in those rural west constituencies?
Independents, sure but there'll always be people who'll only vote for a party.
SF, I saw Pearse raising this issue yesterday and laughed out loud. If they want to reorient SF policy from Urban working-class to rural issues best of luck to them, but it hasn't been their focus up to now and I believe there is a ceiling on their support.

SF has a TD in Galway West and Mayo respectively. So they are already challenging FF, FG in those rural constituencies

Bishop of hope

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's almost like they are frit to discuss the actual govt or the records of the coalition parties while in govt.

Having said that, I find myself defending SF who I don't vote for, quite possibly will never vote for, and really think they aren't that different from where FF were 60 years ago - who I also wouldn't have voted for... :P

Criticise SF by all means but do so on policy and their record in RoI and when they become a govt party by all means go for it but this constant whatabout the opposition is tiresome.

Notable to see another SF defender who never voted for SF.
I don't know if you read these threads much, but Leo, Simon, Michael and Éamon are very constantly criticised personalities all the time, theirs a personality behind every rant.
But fair play to your sense of honour that you picked SF to defend seeing as you're never likely to vote for them.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Notable to see another SF defender who never voted for SF.
I don't know if you read these threads much, but Leo, Simon, Michael and Éamon are very constantly criticised personalities all the time, theirs a personality behind every rant.
But fair play to your sense of honour that you picked SF to defend seeing as you're never likely to vote for them.

By rant you mean opinions you don't like.
Give the shinner rants a rest Bish. New government, lots to talk about. Theres even a shinner thread if you get withdrawal.
I've voted SF more regretful about my FG votes.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Give the shinner rants a rest Bish. New government m, lots to talk about. Theres even a shinner thread.
I've voted SF

Relax, not a bad word about shinners in my post.
It was a reply to a genuine non shinner;)

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Relax, not a bad word about shinners in my post.
It was a reply to a genuine non shinner;)

You're a closet FF man I reckon.


Not that I could give a shyte, but your faux outrage at my insinuation will be hilarious given your earlier Sinn Fein post.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Relax, not a bad word about shinners in my post.
It was a reply to a genuine non shinner;)

It was an attempt to dismiss an opinion you didn't like.

Panrich

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Who's going to challenge FF and FG in those rural west constituencies?
Independents, sure but there'll always be people who'll only vote for a party.
SF, I saw Pearse raising this issue yesterday and laughed out loud. If they want to reorient SF policy from Urban working-class to rural issues best of luck to them, but it hasn't been their focus up to now and I believe there is a ceiling on their support.

There's another cohort who will be looking for a new party to vote for as well and I am one of those. I am originally from Mayo but am living in Meath and believe me, there are many more who still have a strong affinity with the west/mid west who will be using our votes with this slight in mind next time out.

Snow Garden

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

SF has a TD in Galway West and Mayo respectively. So they are already challenging FF, FG in those rural constituencies

Correct and Sinn Fein came from absolutely nowhere to win a seat in Galway West.
She was the first SF candidate elected in Galway for nearly 100 years. She almost topped the poll.

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

You're a closet FF man I reckon.


Not that I could give a shyte, but your faux outrage at my insinuation will be hilarious given your earlier Sinn Fein post.

That'd be another bet you'd lose Mc.

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That'd be another bet you'd lose Mc.

Read the white text above.

Bannasidhe

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Notable to see another SF defender who never voted for SF.
I don't know if you read these threads much, but Leo, Simon, Michael and Éamon are very constantly criticised personalities all the time, theirs a personality behind every rant.
But fair play to your sense of honour that you picked SF to defend seeing as you're never likely to vote for them.

I don't vote for them because I don't agree with their lack of commitment to animal welfare and Inkgate demonstrated how like FF and FG they close ranks when caught being dodgy. In sort - because of policy and their recent record in Dáil Éireann.

Whether or not any SF member is overweight (slug was the description used here), or their links to the IRA (FF and FG had those too - not to mention accusations of arms running against a leader of one and a fascist leader of the other), or any other the other crap introduced to deflect from FF and FG has, imho, zero to do with the topic of a FF/FG/Green govt. So when I see 'whatabout SF' or 'But SF did this...", and "SF/IRA would do xxxx' then yeah - I'll 'defend' them.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

It was an attempt to dismiss an opinion you didn't like.

Not at all, it was a genuine observation.
Yourself and Francie are other examples of SF defenders who aren't really shinners yet rarely criticise SF while lambasting all else around them.
I'm a genuine non shinner. I have no political allegiance whatsoever.
I believe everything from left of center SF to the further left politicians in this country would be bad for Ireland if they get into power, especially on their own, God help us.

Mortelaro

I think the hoo ha about where ministers are from is parish pump politics instead of the pull on the green jersey and get the country back up off its knees politics that we need right now
Stupid

blanch152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't vote for them because I don't agree with their lack of commitment to animal welfare and Inkgate demonstrated how like FF and FG they close ranks when caught being dodgy. In sort - because of policy and their recent record in Dáil Éireann.

Whether or not any SF member is overweight (slug was the description used here), or their links to the IRA (FF and FG had those too - not to mention accusations of arms running against a leader of one and a fascist leader of the other), or any other the other crap introduced to deflect from FF and FG has, imho, zero to do with the topic of a FF/FG/Green govt. So when I see 'whatabout SF' or 'But SF did this...", and "SF/IRA would do xxxx' then yeah - I'll 'defend' them.

Do FF or FG have any current members with such links?

Do you accept that it is not possible to analyse Sinn Fein performance in government in the North because it is not really government?

Do you therefore accept that it is legitimate to criticise Sinn Fein's lack of experience and naivety of policy-making?

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Not at all, it was a genuine observation.
Yourself and Francie are other examples of SF defenders who aren't really shinners yet rarely criticise SF while lambasting all else around them.
I'm a genuine non shinner. I have no political allegiance whatsoever.
I believe everything from left of center SF to the further left politicians in this country would be bad for Ireland if they get into power, especially on their own, God help us.

You obviously use SF to defend FG. I only seem to defend SF because I'll not let that slip. If FG get criticised defend FG with FG. Simples.
Back after Elvis died there was a call out made asking all Elvis fans to mention him were possible to try keep his name alive. Now I know FG like 'taking care of business' but this SF obsession is no more than you lads showing you cant discuss FG/FF on their own merits

RandomViewer

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Who's going to challenge FF and FG in those rural west constituencies?
Independents, sure but there'll always be people who'll only vote for a party.
SF, I saw Pearse raising this issue yesterday and laughed out loud. If they want to reorient SF policy from Urban working-class to rural issues best of luck to them, but it hasn't been their focus up to now and I believe there is a ceiling on their support.

SF would have rural backing long before any urban votes, you have to stop listening to Paul Williams , the man's a complete fantasist if it wasn't for the odd crumb Charlie was throwing him he'd have been proppingup Gemma

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

You obviously use SF to defend FG. I only seem to defend SF because I'll not let that slip. If FG get criticised defend FG with FG. Simples.
Back after Elvis died there was a call out made asking all Elvis fans to mention him were possible to try keep his name alive. Now I know FG like 'taking care of business' but this SF obsession is no more than you lads showing you cant discuss FG/FF on their own merits

I think if posters are single-mindedly criticising Fine Gael just for the sake of it, right down to picking usernames, then their hypocrisy in letting someone else away with far worse should be pointed out.

It is not so much defending Fine Gael, more picking out the fallacies, inconsistencies and hypocrisies in the arguments being made by obsessed conspiracy theory FG critics.

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

Do FF or FG have any current members with such links?

Do you accept that it is not possible to analyse Sinn Fein performance in government in the North because it is not really government?

Do you therefore accept that it is legitimate to criticise Sinn Fein's lack of experience and naivety of policy-making?

Given the IRA has stood down and even when active it was an illegal organisation it is impossible to say - and you know that.

I think comparing a devolved parliament where power sharing is the result of an agreement between 2 different political jurisdictions and where ultimate authority lies in Westminster to the parliament of a sovereign state is apples and oranges. Do I agree with SF policies in NI? I am not familiar with them as I do not live in NI. I live in RoI where I do not agree with SF enough to consider voting for them. My decision is based on their actions in this jurisdiction.

I think that is bluster as what 'experience' did Varadkar have of leading a country when he became Taoiseach? Or when he got any of his ministries? What experience of government does Norma Foley have? Why is she a minister when there are people with experience available?
No minister has 'experience' of their portfolio the day they get it - the civil servants have the experience. If we were only going to elect experienced people why bother having elections -we could draw up a rota instead and save ourselves the bother.

Of course we would also never get any new ideas, or different perspectives, and eventually old age and/or the lure of generous pensions would mean we would run out of experienced people...

Floppybits

Panrich wrote: »

There's another cohort who will be looking for a new party to vote for as well and I am one of those. I am originally from Mayo but am living in Meath and believe me, there are many more who still have a strong affinity with the west/mid west who will be using our votes with this slight in mind next time out.

There is a cohort in the country who are looking for another party to vote for who are not FF, FG, SF or Labour. The SD's maybe that party but they are too small at the moment.

Professor Moriarty

Floppybits wrote: »

There is a cohort in the country who are looking for another party to vote for who are not FF, FG, SF or Labour. The SD's maybe that party but they are too small at the moment.

Might be a chance that the SDs and Labour form a pact soon. Has been mooted many times in the past few years.

JohnnyFlash

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Might be a chance that the SDs and Labour form a pact soon. Has been mooted many times in the past few years.

The social democrats are the Labour Party for slow learners.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I think if posters are single-mindedly criticising Fine Gael just for the sake of it, right down to picking usernames, then their hypocrisy in letting someone else away with far worse should be pointed out.

It is not so much defending Fine Gael, more picking out the fallacies, inconsistencies and hypocrisies in the arguments being made by obsessed conspiracy theory FG critics.

You would claim to think that to justify your Shinner obsession.
If you were honest you'd see posters, FG included simply commenting on the PFG formation or giving an opinion on the picks.
Theres no election anytime soon, take a break.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The social democrats are the Labour Party for slow learners.

How so?

James Brown

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Might be a chance that the SDs and Labour form a pact soon. Has been mooted many times in the past few years.

I think labour need a complete rebuild. Their support of FG and Reilly's clinics helped create the SDs. I would be disappointed to see them hook up with Labour unless Labour get their act together.

Bannasidhe

Floppybits wrote: »

There is a cohort in the country who are looking for another party to vote for who are not FF, FG, SF or Labour. The SD's maybe that party but they are too small at the moment.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Might be a chance that the SDs and Labour form a pact soon. Has been mooted many times in the past few years.

I have hope for the Soc Dems and they would be the party I would be most aligned with. I agreed with their decision to rule out going into talks with FF/FG - as should anyone who agreed with FG refusing to talk to SF- I left FF out there as I honestly don't think FF and SF are incompatible tbh.
The Soc Dems felt ideologically they were incompatible and having run on a platform of change to become a mudguard for the old two would be political suicide at the ballot box next time.
They do need to run more candidates - yes. Especially of the calibre of Holly Cairns.

Imho - as a former LP member and current supporter of the SDs an amalgamation with Labour would be a disaster. Let the LP die. It is a toxic brand - too many years propping up FF/FG have left them with no real policies of their own anyone can trust. If people want to go down with that ship let them, no reason the SD's should fling them a life jacket.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

You obviously use SF to defend FG. I only seem to defend SF because I'll not let that slip. If FG get criticised defend FG with FG. Simples.
Back after Elvis died there was a call out made asking all Elvis fans to mention him were possible to try keep his name alive. Now I know FG like 'taking care of business' but this SF obsession is no more than you lads showing you cant discuss FG/FF on their own merits

I lifted, this, from the, SF thread, it's, you from yesterday, copied and pasted..

"
Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all."

So you wouldn't use FG to defend SF your honour?
Any you were calling someone, else a hypocrite in that post.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I lifted, this, from the, SF thread, it's, you from yesterday, copied and pasted..

"
Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all."

So you wouldn't use FG to defend SF your honour?
Any you were calling someone, else a hypocrite in that post.

Did you read what you quoted? :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I lifted, this, from the, SF thread, it's, you from yesterday, copied and pasted..

"
Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all."

So you wouldn't use FG to defend SF your honour?
Any you were calling someone, else a hypocrite in that post.

Hang on now.
Discussing SF in the SF thread is completely different to discussing SF constantly in a thread about FF/FG/Green Government

Bishop of hope

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hang on now.
Discussing SF in the SF thread is completely different to discussing SF constantly in a thread about FF/FG/Green Government

What's wrong with it as you keep on about it?
It's you and him keep saying to stop it, there's nothing wrong with it in my view.
I was accused by him earlier of trying to stop a conversation which was untrue.
If you're going to discuss a thing what's wrong with talking about the alternatives as well.
You're looking for a one sided conversation, not me,

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Did you read what you quoted? :rolleyes:

No, I read your mention of o leary in the SF thread.