FF/FG/Green Next Government

MrMusician18

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sweetest divine - it's burial grounds now.

It's already a bloody roundabout.
A large roundabout with roads leading to a motorway, a tunnel, a city centre etc.

It is to be redeveloped.


This was last august

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/100m-dunkettle-interchange-upgrade-delayed-by-a-year-944273.html

They started work and then it stalled as the price wasn't agreed. Estimates have gone from €100m to €150m. It might not be ready for 10 years according the the construction fed. It is one interchange.
That is GUBU.
This from a gov that claimed to be fiscally responsible.

I am saying when things like this happen we need to reexamine the whole blasted process of tendering to avoid things like this happening -and you are talking about there might be burial grounds.

You might be happy with this level of lack of fiscal oversight but I am not - I don't believe in the Magic Money Tree.

It's not just a roundabout, it's a major interchange on the primary route to access Cork city. This junction needs to be kept open while the works progress as there is no viable alternative route for those traffic volumes. That makes this project extremely complicated.

When a construction budget needs to increase it's because something was missed, or something has been uncovered. If a project has to increase it's projected spend by 50% then it points to an expensive issue (like ground works) that's arisen during the detailed design. It's not as if, when the budget needs to increase that it's being pocketed for nothing by underhanded contractors.

I do think public procurement is slow, but I know why it is - but you clearly don't. The time given for each stage of the process is to ensure fairness for both the contractor and the awarding body. A tender for a complicated public works project will have tens of thousands of pages in it, that need to be gone through.

You seem to apparently have a better idea on how tendering should work and how you can make it fast and fair. So don't keep these great ideas to yourself, please share them with industry. In fact, I'll let them know to be ready, for Bannasidhe has a solution for the intractable tendering problem that's been bugging them for years...

RandomViewer

Bishop of hope wrote: »

OK, just a note to the new minister or whoever is, responsible for public announcements.
I know two families heading for Spain in the next month or so, they've paid for their packages both in the 2000 euro mark area.
Now we have the cmo saying don't go, it's too dangerous.
Both of these families now feel guilt tripped about going and fear being ridiculed because of it.
They can't as yet get their money back and can't afford to pay for a staycation unless they do.
Someone needs to step in and clear this up please.

Sometimes you have to take the hit,

ELM327

RandomViewer wrote: »

Sometimes you have to take the hit,

Not good enough.

Truthvader

ELM327 wrote: »

Not good enough.

Agreed. particularly if Ryanair are running promotions. Time for government to step in one way or the other. The hand wringing and "hoping" from the sidelines is just confusing

Bannasidhe

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's not just a roundabout, it's a major interchange on the primary route to access Cork city. This junction needs to be kept open while the works progress as there is no viable alternative route for those traffic volumes. That makes this project extremely complicated.

When a construction budget needs to increase it's because something was missed, or something has been uncovered. If a project has to increase it's projected spend by 50% then it points to an expensive issue (like ground works) that's arisen during the detailed design. It's not as if, when the budget needs to increase that it's being pocketed for nothing by underhanded contractors.

I do think public procurement is slow, but I know why it is - but you clearly don't. The time given for each stage of the process is to ensure fairness for both the contractor and the awarding body. A tender for a complicated public works project will have tens of thousands of pages in it, that need to be gone through.

You seem to apparently have a better idea on how tendering should work and how you can make it fast and fair. So don't keep these great ideas to yourself, please share them with industry. In fact, I'll let them know to be ready, for Bannasidhe has a solution for the intractable tendering problem that's been bugging them for years...

You apparently find it acceptable that costs continue to spiral.
I don't.
I find it strange that other countries seem to be able to not end up with the same level of delays and increased costs.
But sure - we know better here and they are doing it wrong.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

None of those links support the specific allegation that you made which was as follows:



Plenty of figures but nothing to back you up.

They show they put more money into using the private market over building state owned social and affordable. That's the only point claimed.
This has been well covered. FG will tell you same.
Can you show they favored building state owned propetty over leasing and ppp builds? Can you f***.
It's a waste of money IMO.

The_Conductor

Truthvader wrote: »

Agreed. particularly if Ryanair are running promotions. Time for government to step in one way or the other. The hand wringing and "hoping" from the sidelines is just confusing

My sister took a Ryanair flight from Dublin to Lisbon on Sunday. It was jam packed and less than half the passengers had face masks on for the duration of the flight. Air hosts/hostesses sold drinks and food on the flight as normal- and there was no temperature checks or other health checks done in Lisbon on arrival.

We also have reciprochal mayhem coming in the other direction.

Note: my sister works there (and had for a number of years)- shes not there on holidays, she wasn't on a skite.

hardybuck

Podge_irl wrote: »

Travel insurance won't pay out unless there are travel advisories in place. Nor will the airlines be obliged to refund. But I don't think anyone is suggesting the state should cover expenses of those who booked holidays.

Some clarity in messaging is definitely required.

What's unclear?

The Chief Medical Officer doesn't recommend that you go, but you can make the decision to go if you want to - it isn't illegal.

Seems fairly straightforward to me.

The_Conductor

hardybuck wrote: »

What's unclear?

The Chief Medical Officer doesn't recommend that you go, but you can make the decision to go if you want to - it isn't illegal.

Seems fairly straightforward to me.

A firm travel advisory is needed- unequivocally stating it is safe to travel, or it is unsafe to do so. Different branches of government stating different things- does not work. Mixed messages = no message.

hardybuck

The_Conductor wrote: »

A firm travel advisory is needed- unequivocally stating it is safe to travel, or it is unsafe to do so. Different branches of government stating different things- does not work. Mixed messages = no message.

From my read of it the shift has been for responsibility to be placed upon individuals to make an informed choice.

The DFA have been issuing travel advisories forever that nobody pays too much notice of. You can go to Syria in the morning if you want to, and if you can get there - your call even if we don't recommend it.

I don't think you're going to get a situation where you get a clear list of countries where it's safe to travel to. Going anywhere will come with risk for the foreseeable. There is talk of these 'air bridges' that'll be updated every two weeks, but I think that could cause even more confusion.

Richard Hillman

And we have our first scandal

https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990/status/1277940607122657285?s=19

Edgware

RandomViewer wrote: »

Sometimes you have to take the hit,

Take one for the team

hardybuck

Richard Hillman wrote: »

And we have our first scandal

https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990/status/1277940607122657285?s=19

John Connors is an awful dose.

c.p.w.g.w

hardybuck wrote: »

John Connors is an awful dose.

I don't think John see's the irony here

MrMusician18

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You apparently find it acceptable that costs continue to spiral.
I don't.
I find it strange that other countries seem to be able to not end up with the same level of delays and increased costs.
But sure - we know better here and they are doing it wrong.

What other countries? Sure in authoritarian and pseudo democracies things get built quickly, usually at the expense of fair tendering and local concerns. Germany perhaps? Well let me point you to Brandenburg airport...

Would you be happy to see projects rammed through without consultation? Would you be happy to see Government cronies appointed to public contracts with little or no oversight? That's effectively what you are saying if you want planning and tendering guillotined.

Or would you rather projects be rushed to site before the details are worked out, effectively leaving the budget unfinalised? Because you appear to be arguing for both quick starts and cheap delivery, but you can't have both. You can have one or the other.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

They show they put more money into using the private market over building state owned social and affordable. That's the only point claimed.
This has been well covered. FG will tell you same.
Can you show they favored building state owned propetty over leasing and ppp builds? Can you f***.
It's a waste of money IMO.

You made a specific claim in your original post, that you have failed to back up. Here it is again:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113899239&postcount=3532


"the fact that the FG government preferred 25 year leases and PPP's built to rent"

You were asked to back up that "fact" and you couldn't. Now, you are shifting your claim into a more general point - "they put more money into using the private market over building state owned social and affordable" - to cover your blushes. That is a different claim.

Pointing out that your posts have shifted the goalposts to cover the fact that you could not back up your original assertion is all I am doing.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You made a specific claim in your original post, that you have failed to back up. Here it is again:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113899239&postcount=3532


"the fact that the FG government preferred 25 year leases and PPP's built to rent"

You were asked to back up that "fact" and you couldn't. Now, you are shifting your claim into a more general point - "they put more money into using the private market over building state owned social and affordable" - to cover your blushes. That is a different claim.

Pointing out that your posts have shifted the goalposts to cover the fact that you could not back up your original assertion is all I am doing.

Ha

the FG government preferred 25 year leases and PPP's built to rent. Unless you have other information?

They show they put more money into using the private market over building state owned social and affordable.

Completely different :rolleyes:

It's backed up. Same geographical position of the goalpost.
The rest of your comment is the usual bitter diversion. Give it up.
FG exacerbated the FG housing crises by prioritising using build to rent, leases etc.
Common knowledge. And a desperate pitch from you. Showing yourself up again. Obsessed with defending FG. No credibility.

KyussB

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MTT dude. Haha. I know how central banking works, my friend.

You don't appear to - you don't seem to realize we live in a fiat money system, nor how money creation works - you seem to think that money is e.g. like gold, in that it has to be dug up out of the ground, or is otherwise burdensome to create.

How, exactly, do you think money is created? You would struggle to differentiate an accurate description of that, from any description of the facetious 'money tree' fallacy/thought-terminating-cliche.

LawBoy2018

Have any junior ministers been announced yet??

mgn

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Have any junior ministers been announced yet??

Not yet, don't be surprised if one of Catherine Martins kids get to be a junior minister the Greens like to keep things in the family.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Ha





Completely different :rolleyes:

It's backed up. Same geographical position of the goalpost.
The rest of your comment is the usual bitter diversion. Give it up.
FG exacerbated the FG housing crises by prioritising using build to rent, leases etc.
Common knowledge. And a desperate pitch from you. Showing yourself up again. Obsessed with defending FG. No credibility.

They are different points, very different points. You made specific reference to 25-year leases and PPPs, and later conflated that into wider use of the private sector.

I can't figure out whether you don't understand the distinction or whether you are trying to goad a reaction from me, or something else.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

They are different points, very different points. You made specific reference to 25-year leases and PPPs, and later conflated that into wider use of the private sector.

I can't figure out whether you don't understand the distinction or whether you are trying to goad a reaction from me, or something else.

I said they prefer ppp builds to rent and 25 year leases over building social housing.
They are the same point. I showed what they spent on it. You've no argument here.
I would say this is a lot of time and energy to spend on dishonest pedantry but then again your whole agenda is playing defense for FG. You have posted many hateful and dishonest posts but this must be among the most vacuous.
FG used by choice the private market which exacerbated their housing crisis.
Are we getting close to you insulting me with absolutely no attempt to back it up?
Will you be inferring I'm a Stone cutter?

P.S: Goading you? That's paranoia. I'd be content never dealing with you.

Bannasidhe

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What other countries? Sure in authoritarian and pseudo democracies things get built quickly, usually at the expense of fair tendering and local concerns. Germany perhaps? Well let me point you to Brandenburg airport...

Would you be happy to see projects rammed through without consultation? Would you be happy to see Government cronies appointed to public contracts with little or no oversight? That's effectively what you are saying if you want planning and tendering guillotined.

Or would you rather projects be rushed to site before the details are worked out, effectively leaving the budget unfinalised? Because you appear to be arguing for both quick starts and cheap delivery, but you can't have both. You can have one or the other.

Oh look - I'm not the only one who thinks we have 'rare form'

Massive overspending on big public projects is not unusual internationally, but Ireland has rare form in this regard. The motorway network, Luas, the national broadband plan, the Health Service Executive’s PPARS (personnel, payroll and related systems) computer system, the Dublin port tunnel and now the national children’s hospital projects all saw huge increases beyond the initial cost.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/pattern-of-overspending-in-major-irish-infrastructure-projects-1.3788845

Here is the authoritarian and pseudo-democracy of Switzerland

A new governance report shows the Swiss are top of the heap when it comes to finishing infrastructure projects

https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/opinion/infrastructure-projects-swiss-are-on-the-right-track/23538262.html?ticket=ST-8345178-XoanSZsSfTKU5BEob2BO-ap5

nc6000

The Fianna Fáil TD Jim O’Callaghan has turned down an offer of a junior ministerial post.

Mr O’Callaghan told The Irish Times he was offered a junior position in the Department of Justice, with responsibility for law reform.

“I was asked this afternoon by an Taoiseach, Micheál Martin TD, to accept an appointment as minister of state in the government. Having thought carefully about this offer I have decided not to accept,” he said.

“The reason I am not accepting is because I believe my energy and abilities will be better used as a backbench Fianna Fáil TD rather than as a junior member of government.

“At a time when many of our party’s senior members will be preoccupied with their ministerial duties, I want to devote more time to strengthening our great party by making it a more attractive option for young voters. I also believe Fianna Fáil needs strong voices outside government who can ensure that our party’s identity can be protected during the term of this coalition government.

“I wish Micheál and his government every success in the years ahead.”

Brendan Bendar

If this ‘agreement’ proves anything it’s the arrogance of these churns running the country.

All we hear prior to agreement is ‘I just want to achieve change’

The recent appointments prove otherwise in that coins offered huge jobs in the State have shown that all they want is status and the wedge.

Time these tools were exposed and given the chop next time out.

Complete disrespect for the country and an example of selfishness and arrogance.

gmisk

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

If this ‘agreement’ proves anything it’s the arrogance of these churns running the country.

All we hear prior to agreement is ‘I just want to achieve change’

The recent appointments prove otherwise in that coins offered huge jobs in the State have shown that all they want is status and the wedge.

Time these tools were exposed and given the chop next time out.

Complete disrespect for the country and an example of selfishness and arrogance.

Is churns a slang term?
Is there a question anywhere in this?
What does "coins offered huge jobs" mean?

James Brown

nc6000 wrote: »

The Fianna Fáil TD Jim O’Callaghan has turned down an offer of a junior ministerial post.

Mr O’Callaghan told The Irish Times he was offered a junior position in the Department of Justice, with responsibility for law reform.

“I was asked this afternoon by an Taoiseach, Micheál Martin TD, to accept an appointment as minister of state in the government. Having thought carefully about this offer I have decided not to accept,” he said.

“The reason I am not accepting is because I believe my energy and abilities will be better used as a backbench Fianna Fáil TD rather than as a junior member of government.

“At a time when many of our party’s senior members will be preoccupied with their ministerial duties, I want to devote more time to strengthening our great party by making it a more attractive option for young voters. I also believe Fianna Fáil needs strong voices outside government who can ensure that our party’s identity can be protected during the term of this coalition government.

“I wish Micheál and his government every success in the years ahead.”

Social distancing?

Brendan Bendar

gmisk wrote: »

Is churns a slang term?
Is there a question anywhere in this?
What does "coins offered huge jobs" mean?

Sorry, my friend, but this stuff really agitates me.

A guy not too long in big time politics rejects a big job in the running of the State,because as it seems, it is beneath him.

Other people doing the same.Others not happy with big jobs

Kind of makes fools of the electorate who vote in good faith for these people.

Sorry for the terminology but the electorate should go after these people.

cfuserkildare

Just saw this and I must say that I am appalled by this,


Total Sellouts!!


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0701/1150815-green-party-environment-groups/

namloc1980

nc6000 wrote: »

The Fianna Fáil TD Jim O’Callaghan has turned down an offer of a junior ministerial post.

Mr O’Callaghan told The Irish Times he was offered a junior position in the Department of Justice, with responsibility for law reform.

“I was asked this afternoon by an Taoiseach, Micheál Martin TD, to accept an appointment as minister of state in the government. Having thought carefully about this offer I have decided not to accept,” he said.

“The reason I am not accepting is because I believe my energy and abilities will be better used as a backbench Fianna Fáil TD rather than as a junior member of government.

“At a time when many of our party’s senior members will be preoccupied with their ministerial duties, I want to devote more time to strengthening our great party by making it a more attractive option for young voters. I also believe Fianna Fáil needs strong voices outside government who can ensure that our party’s identity can be protected during the term of this coalition government.

“I wish Micheál and his government every success in the years ahead.”

Jim is heading into the long grass to wait his turn.