FF/FG/Green Next Government

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Agree on the latter completely.
Not much there though to dispel any reason for the economic benefits that having junior ministers.
As to the school thing, no one is certain about how best to handle school returning yet, this virus is still to be quelled, it's a tough one.

Then why let the Dept Education release a load of ****e yesterday leaving people just as confused and worried as they were before?

nigeldaniel

I think FF/FG/Greens have started off well enough. I see no issues at all for the time been. We are very lucky to have a sound head in finance and a good department in defense.

is_that_so

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Then why let the Dept Education release a load of ****e yesterday leaving people just as confused and worried as they were before?

The DoE is the real weak link here, if someone can get it to function properly during the lifetime of this government, that will be a massive achievement.

efanton

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A big amount of work to be done and all hands on deck needed.
The difference in wages for a few extra juniors is miniscule in comparison to what could be generated by having them helping out.
Genuine non talking point right there.

Did the government sack the senior civil servants? That's a serious question.

Far too many chiefs, and not enough Indians in my opinion.
I would argue the opposite, the more 'bosses' there are giving orders the less ordered it will be. Instead of one person directing policy, priorities and ensuring things get done now already under pressure staff have to deal with two or three people calling the shots and it is likely that if that they are from different parties the priorities given will be different. Surely that is the role of senior civil servants, they get paid enough, and they should be well able for it with years of experience in the civil services. If not then it is time to have a bit of a clean up within the civil service.

Lets be honest here, the reason why there are so may junior ministers is that with three parties divvying out the big seats, small seats had to be created to prevent ego's being bruised, and yet the papers have been filled with nothing more than TD's crying that they have been let down and rejected because they were not made a minister or junior minister, super junior minister, super fantastic minister or some other stupid made up title.

Its about time TD's realise that the only job they are entitled to is being a TD if they are fortunate enough to be elected. There was no reason whatsoever why TD's could not take on extra duties if they had a mind to without being made a minister, junior minister or super minister. Ordinary workers up and down the country are having to take on extra duties and work extra hours because of the covid crisis and most are not complaining, they recognise we are in exceptional times and just get on with it. There's even more worried that they have no job to even go back to.

Snow Garden

is_that_so wrote: »

The DoE is the real weak link here, if someone can get it to function properly during the lifetime of this government, that will be a massive achievement.

Correct, it truly is a badly managed and run department. It has been for decades. Soft place to work though.

Snow Garden

leahyl wrote: »

Someone else isn’t happy with MM:

“Separately, Fianna Fáil's Cork North West TD Michael Moynihan has said he is extremely disappointed that the Taoiseach did not appoint him a junior minister "He has insulted me and my community. I have worked so hard for the party over the last nine years; took a lot of s*** for him. Very, very cross,"

Unbelievable. Who do FF TDs think they are?

There are already 3 full ministers in Cork.

Greed.

namloc1980

Snow Garden wrote: »

Correct, it truly is a badly managed and run department. It has been for decades. Soft place to work though.

Dealing with the various teachers unions makes change extremely slow to happen

namloc1980

Snow Garden wrote: »

Unbelievable. Who do FF TDs think they are?

There are already 3 full ministers in Cork.

Greed.

Strong sense of entitlement.

Podge_irl

efanton wrote: »

There was no reason whatsoever why TD's could not take on extra duties if they had a mind to without being made a minister, junior minister or super minister.

They would have no authority to instruct the civil service to do anything. Junior ministers have delegated authority from the cabinet minister.

blanch152

Elmo wrote: »

Well to me it looks like the greens have been shafted in terms of junior ministers.

Eamon Ryan’s Department gets 0 Ministers of State
Catherine Martin’s department gets 1 but he’s also the chief whip (has a chief whip always had a secondary role)
Roderick O’Gorman fairs a bit better with a minister of state for Disabilities

I would see it the opposite way. Not having a Minister of State means that the relevant Minister doesn't have anyone else looking for glory.

jmayo

nc6000 wrote: »

The Fianna Fáil TD Jim O’Callaghan has turned down an offer of a junior ministerial post.

Mr O’Callaghan told The Irish Times he was offered a junior position in the Department of Justice, with responsibility for law reform.

“I was asked this afternoon by an Taoiseach, Micheál Martin TD, to accept an appointment as minister of state in the government. Having thought carefully about this offer I have decided not to accept,” he said.

Can't believe I am on here now defending ffers, but seriously would a lot of people have stomached what he was offered if they were honest.
It was yet another slap in the face.

We have a go at politicians for not standing up for things and unlike Calleary O'Callaghan told Martin to go fook himself when he was being humiliated.

O'Callaghan a senior barrister with loads of experience, loads of qualifications in the law, has been involved with the party for a long time, way before is election as TD, and is meant to slink over to Dept of Justice to hold the hand of your wan whose experience is losely described as in business for a few years and working for daddy in the Dail.

I would rather a politician that would stand up for themselves rather than just rollover to climb onboard the gravy train.
We are always complaining that too many politicians are just in it for the money.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Jim is heading into the long grass to wait his turn.

It is getting very crowded in there.

Water John

namloc1980 wrote: »

Dealing with the various teachers unions makes change extremely slow to happen

Dealing with the ASTI makes change extremely slow to happen.

PixieValentine

leahyl wrote: »

Someone else isn’t happy with MM:

“Separately, Fianna Fáil's Cork North West TD Michael Moynihan has said he is extremely disappointed that the Taoiseach did not appoint him a junior minister "He has insulted me and my community. I have worked so hard for the party over the last nine years; took a lot of s*** for him. Very, very cross,"

He's still going, too...

https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1278625713558638593?s=20

James Brown

nigeldaniel wrote: »

I think FF/FG/Greens have started off well enough. I see no issues at all for the time been. We are very lucky to have a sound head in finance and a good department in defense.

NCH, Leo's spin unit and allowing 25 year leases instead of building our own?
I hate to speak ill of a fellow Dr. Who fan but he's not great with public money.

James Brown

PixieValentine wrote: »

He's still going, too...

https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1278625713558638593?s=20

Seems we're only 'all in this together' if there's something in it for me.

PixieValentine

Aaand now MM has been accused of "insulting all of Limerick City"

https://twitter.com/willieodeaLIVE/status/1278640224655085568?s=20

namloc1980

Micheal better watch his back. The knives are definitely out.

Scoundrel

Hilarious FF imploding over the pigs who can't get their noses deeper in the trough.

Snow Garden

Scoundrel wrote: »

Hilarious FF imploding over the pigs who can't get their noses deeper in the trough.

That's how it looks.

First FFG fill the Seanad with 10 crony appointments (failed TDs) after criticising the practice in the past. Then FF squabble over the junior ministries having ruined the country only 13 years ago. I hope the electorate remembers what FFG stand for.

PixieValentine

namloc1980 wrote: »

Micheal better watch his back. The knives are definitely out.

Indeed!! Poor old Micheal. He was never going to have a honeymoon period, coming into the job in the middle of a pandemic, but jeez, didn’t quite foresee that he’d manage to have half his party running to the nearest reporter they could find to trash him before a week was out either! And do these people even realise how petty some of this stuff sounds? SO MANY PEOPLE have lost their jobs. Many more will yet. And now you’ve got grown men throwing shapes about not being promoted to an even higher paid job. It’s not a good look.

Having said that though, all the noise might be around Fianna Fail’s disgruntlement but seems all is not well in the gardens of the Greens or FG either. Apparently two people were led in the Greens to think they were up for promotion and now have found, after being given nothing, that they were NOT in and are deeply not pleased as a result. And Leo has his own problems too. Joe McHugh wasn’t the only one in FG who turned down an offer yesterday.

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1278367974672478208?s=20

Phelan isn’t just any FG member. Like McHugh he’s been a huge Varadkar supporter and a close ally of his going back years. He was even still firmly backing him after their terrible showing in February. Though… maybe Phelan isn’t that surprising a “no”. He was totally against this coalition, or forming a government at all. His name kept coming up as one of the ones in FG speaking up repeatedly against going in with Fianna Fail and really heavily pushing for another election recently. So maybe he was just not going to go for whatever was offered to try to get him onside.

Still… might not bode well for Leo if people who have been among his strongest supporters for years are turning away over this. Thankfully FG are doing a better job of keeping things quieter than Micheal’s woes (probably helps that FF are just so loud about the anger in the ranks that they WILL make the other two parties look quiet in comparison ) so we don’t have to listen to those tantrums too, so here's for small mercies! But I still wonder just how much Leo has lost support over this too, and how much is going on behind the scenes there. He might have the 75% approval bolstering him right now, but that won't last, and surely he can't afford to lose allies after their disaster in Feb? Not when he has to know he always has Simon Coveney breathing down his neck. And then of course the Greens leadership contest is still going on. Knives might be being sharpened all round!

jmayo

maestroamado wrote: »

Did we always have all these ministers?
How many Government departments are there?
We seem to have about 50 ministers.
I think too many creates confusion...

Too many.
cowan had ciut the numebr down from 20 to 15 when the shyte hit the fan
Now michael, leo and eamon have it back up at 20.

And they are making a pigs mickie of it swapping and changing departments around.
And how much money is that costing BTW.

Snow Garden wrote: »

That's how it looks.

First FFG fill the Seanad with 10 crony appointments (failed TDs) after criticising the practice in the past. Then FF squabble over the junior ministries having ruined the country only 13 years ago. I hope the electorate remembers what FFG stand for.

Fair enough lets have a go at ff and fg.

But what about the greens??
Was catherine martin's brother not given a gig in the Senate ????
No wonder he is quoted as saying "he (ryan) is a good man"

And when old Pippa got the senate gig, she parachuted hubby into her county council seat in Offaly.
I wonder who is finding time to keep their farm "within natures boundaries" :rolleyes:

Oh and before we get hollier than thou, labour were adept at giving out largese to their relatives.
And the shinners, well lets not go there.

James Brown

PixieValentine wrote: »

Indeed!! Poor old Micheal. He was never going to have a honeymoon period, coming into the job in the middle of a pandemic, but jeez, didn’t quite foresee that he’d manage to have half his party running to the nearest reporter they could find to trash him before a week was out either! And do these people even realise how petty some of this stuff sounds? SO MANY PEOPLE have lost their jobs. Many more will yet. And now you’ve got grown men throwing shapes about not being promoted to an even higher paid job. It’s not a good look.

Having said that though, all the noise might be around Fianna Fail’s disgruntlement but seems all is not well in the gardens of the Greens or FG either. Apparently two people were led in the Greens to think they were up for promotion and now have found, after being given nothing, that they were NOT in and are deeply not pleased as a result. And Leo has his own problems too. Joe McHugh wasn’t the only one in FG who turned down an offer yesterday.

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1278367974672478208?s=20

Phelan isn’t just any FG member. Like McHugh he’s been a huge Varadkar supporter and a close ally of his going back years. He was even still firmly backing him after their terrible showing in February. Though… maybe Phelan isn’t that surprising a “no”. He was totally against this coalition, or forming a government at all. His name kept coming up as one of the ones in FG speaking up repeatedly against going in with Fianna Fail and really heavily pushing for another election recently. So maybe he was just not going to go for whatever was offered to try to get him onside.

Still… might not bode well for Leo if people who have been among his strongest supporters for years are turning away over this. Thankfully FG are doing a better job of keeping things quieter than Micheal’s woes (probably helps that FF are just so loud about the anger in the ranks that they WILL make the other two parties look quiet in comparison ) so we don’t have to listen to those tantrums too, so here's for small mercies! But I still wonder just how much Leo has lost support over this too, and how much is going on behind the scenes there. He might have the 75% approval bolstering him right now, but that won't last, and surely he can't afford to lose allies after their disaster in Feb? Not when he has to know he always has Simon Coveney breathing down his neck. And then of course the Greens leadership contest is still going on. Knives might be being sharpened all round!

It's not fair on the people who voted for you if your party is in government and you turn down an offer to play a role because it didn't stroke your ego the right way. 'Better in than out' when deciding if to join a coalition is debatable but once you signed up you should be ready to serve.

Glad Wille didn't get a look in. Hopefully his day is done.

Cal4567

Snow Garden wrote: »

. I hope the electorate remembers what FFG stand for.

'ucking Fickle Gob****es?

Anymore ideas.

Less than a mere week in government, and FF look like to implode with parish pump politics. They were 14% at the last poll. What now, single figures?

Have they learned anything a decade out of office? Doubtful. The core vote is getting older and older. I am struggling to see what they bring to the table. If I have voted FG for the last few years, why would I revert to FF. If I have voted SF, why change back to FF. Everything has a shelf life. FF was founded on 16 May 1926. Looks like 100 years will just be enough for it.

Truthvader

PixieValentine wrote: »

Aaand now MM has been accused of "insulting all of Limerick City"

https://twitter.com/willieodeaLIVE/status/1278640224655085568?s=20

FFS What an utter dick

Scoundrel

Cal4567 wrote: »

'ucking Fickle Gob****es?

Anymore ideas.

Less than a mere week in government, and FF look like to implode with parish pump politics. They were 14% at the last poll. What now, single figures?

Have they learned anything a decade out of office? Doubtful. The core vote is getting older and older. I am struggling to see what they bring to the table. If I have voted FG for the last few years, why would I revert to FF. If I have voted SF, why change back to FF. Everything has a shelf life. FF was founded on 16 May 1926. Looks like 100 years will just be enough for it.

That's a great point I mean what is actually the point of voting for FF what do they offer that FG don't? Why would a voter for any other party switch to FF?

PixieValentine

Sigh, guess it was too much to hope the FG crowd would continue to do their giving out in private rather than in public. Wonder will more of them join the chorus to have their turn too.

https://twitter.com/DeBrunOisin/status/1278664333531242497?s=20

I get there's a lot of disappointment but why are they all suddenly feeling the need to do this so PUBLICLY?! And did they all miss, somehow, that we're not talking about a one party with a majority but a coalition? That there simply isn’t enough positions to offer one to everyone?!

Also- that's another longtime Leo supporter who he's managed to make seriously browned off. Ooof.

Cal4567

As I look at the front page now on their websites at 3pm on Thursday afternoon, both our main 'quality' papers are leading with SF and Michelle O'Neill's attendance in Dublin last weekend and at the funeral in Belfast story, which as news items, both are time limited, but they'll eek them out as much as they can.

If SF actually got into power, this would be wall to wall. Both papers would explode with indignation.

Not a pro or even an anti comment regarding any political party, but this 'let's find any angle to have a dig at SF' is getting tiresome. Before anyone else comes on and says, they deserve it, that's a fair point. It is that it is just getting ridiculous at this stage. Yet, they will decry social media for fake news etc but have a continuous agenda.

Perhaps the weekend supplements, about to be penned, can provide us with many column inches on FF cronyism, or is this still the honeymoon period for the government they, the media, actually wanted, so they get off on any criticism.

Truthvader

Cal4567 wrote: »

As I look at the front page now on their websites at 3pm on Thursday afternoon, both our main 'quality' papers are leading with SF and Michelle O'Neill's attendance in Dublin last weekend and at the funeral in Belfast story, which as news items, both are time limited, but they'll eek them out as much as they can.

If SF actually got into power, this would be wall to wall. Both papers would explode with indignation.

Not a pro or even an anti comment regarding any political party, but this 'let's find any angle to have a dig at SF' is getting tiresome. Before anyone else comes on and says, they deserve it, that's a fair point. It is that it is just getting ridiculous at this stage. Yet, they will decry social media for fake news etc but have a continuous agenda.

Perhaps the weekend supplements, about to be penned, can provide us with many column inches on FF cronyism, or is this still the honeymoon period for the government they, the media, actually wanted, so they get off on any criticism.

Agree 100%. Despise Sinn Fein but to be focussing on this is pathetic.

dundalkfc10

If the Govt had the good of the country in their thoughts, every TD should be refusing this as Sinn Fein have

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-rise-for-politicians-and-public-servants-to-cost-264m-a-year-39333763.html

This is also how they will decide things

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/chair-of-the-seanad-elected-by-ff-after-pulling-names-out-of-a-hat-39333774.html

"An internal Fianna Fáil vote for the €46,000 Seanad chair job was decided by pulling names out of a hat."

jmayo

PixieValentine wrote: »

Sigh, guess it was too much to hope the FG crowd would continue to do their giving out in private rather than in public. Wonder will more of them join the chorus to have their turn too.

https://twitter.com/DeBrunOisin/status/1278664333531242497?s=20

I get there's a lot of disappointment but why are they all suddenly feeling the need to do this so PUBLICLY?! And did they all miss, somehow, that we're not talking about a one party with a majority but a coalition? That there simply isn’t enough positions to offer one to everyone?!

Also- that's another longtime Leo supporter who he's managed to make seriously browned off. Ooof.

Ringer is doing a bit of sh** stirring.

I think the whole thing shows how disconnected and weak the leaders are, particularly Martin.

They all know he is doomed and not long for the job of either leader of government or indeed his party.

And I bet Ring knows Varadker is planning an exit.
I think Leo has grander aspirations than playing second fiddle for a couple of years and maybe trying to hold together a very unhappy marriage with FF while keeping the mistress, the greens, happy as well .

This type of stuff would never have happened before, definitely not with FF anyway or indeed FG.
Yes people were disappointed, yes they were unhappy with the leaders, yes they organised heaves, but this is right out in the open not a week into power and they couldn't give a rats ass what their leaders think.

The FFers out peddling the line about the chief whip being a difficult important job are actually right seeing the way things are panning out.
The laugh is the plonker leader gave it to one of the ones now most unhappy.

You couldn't write this stuff as fiction.