FF/FG/Green Next Government

jmayo

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If the Govt had the good of the country in their thoughts, every TD should be refusing this as Sinn Fein have

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-rise-for-politicians-and-public-servants-to-cost-264m-a-year-39333763.html

This is also how they will decide things

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/chair-of-the-seanad-elected-by-ff-after-pulling-names-out-of-a-hat-39333774.html

"An internal Fianna Fáil vote for the €46,000 Seanad chair job was decided by pulling names out of a hat."

As I said you couldn't make this sh** up if you tried.

Discipline is gone.
The only thing that will keep this government together for a while is self preservation and fear of losing ones seat.

Watch the guys rattling most cages and I bet they are the ones most comfortable in elections and least likely to lose their seats.

Podge_irl

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If the Govt had the good of the country in their thoughts, every TD should be refusing this as Sinn Fein have

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-rise-for-politicians-and-public-servants-to-cost-264m-a-year-39333763.html

No they shouldn't. TD salaries should be independently set and they should not be able to unilaterally increase or decrease them. If their salaries are too high there is obviously something wrong with the setting mechanism, but ad hoc refusal of raises should not be the norm.

Also, unless SF are returning the money to the exchequer then they very much are accepting the wage. What they choose to do with it afterwards is their business. It has always annoyed me the way they portray that.

Edgware

Snow Garden wrote: »

Unbelievable. Who do FF TDs think they are?

There are already 3 full ministers in Cork.

Greed.

Moynihan has some grounds for complaint though.
He has been a very loyally F.F. man over the years, never engaged in trying to stop a running mate and put in the local work to get two out of three seats for F F. If the people appointed Minister or Junior Minister had done the same FF would have 50 plus seats. Cork N.W. stretches from the edge of Cork city to the Kerry Limerick border and is predominantly a rural constituency. Not that Junior Minister do fûcking anything anyway but it would keep the grassroots happy. Martin will have to pull some tricks to avoid a heave after 2022. The wolves are circling

Brendan Bendar

This last few days have exposed a lot of coins who are in politics to create fifedoms and and be the ‘the big dog’ in their area.

The lure of the sods of turf soaked in gasoline lighting the hills to welcome the ‘conquering hero’ home seems to have got to some heads.

These handpumps need to realise that they are elected to SERVE not to RULE.

Very bad start by this govt. they let the media get the high ground and exposed the major flaw in our govt............LACK OF ENFORCEMENT.

Any intelligent person realises that Pat doesn’t do compliance.

Pat won’t comply unless he gets hammered in the pocket if he doesn’t comply.

Check the pubs, the supermarkets, the busses trains and taxis.

It’s a joke, an open goal for the media to toy with them as Wilson is doing with ease

Joe Jacob stuff here.

Cal4567

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This last few days have exposed a lot of coins who are in politics to create fiefdoms and and be the ‘the big dog’ in their area.

Read that first as 'the big don' as in Corleone. Gangsters does come to mind.

5 days only and I'm beginning to want FG back at this stage.

Brendan Bendar

Cal4567 wrote: »

Read that first as 'the big don' as in Corleone. Gangsters does come to mind.

5 days only and I'm beginning to want FG back at this stage.

Well......ummmm

I can’t see this thing working.... total fcukery so far

Steady hand of FG needed...........you cant let the media turn you over like a drunken rabbit like Wilson did to Foley.

Should never have taken that interview, only a fool would have done that a day or two into the job.

Notice none of the experienced FG appointees have been heard of.

Baaaaad start.

James Brown

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If the Govt had the good of the country in their thoughts, every TD should be refusing this as Sinn Fein have

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-rise-for-politicians-and-public-servants-to-cost-264m-a-year-39333763.html

This is also how they will decide things

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/chair-of-the-seanad-elected-by-ff-after-pulling-names-out-of-a-hat-39333774.html

"An internal Fianna Fáil vote for the €46,000 Seanad chair job was decided by pulling names out of a hat."

Classic Fianna Fail. Only the beginning alas.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This last few days have exposed a lot of coins who are in politics to create fifedoms and and be the ‘the big dog’ in their area.

The lure of the sods of turf soaked in gasoline lighting the hills to welcome the ‘conquering hero’ home seems to have got to some heads.

These handpumps need to realise that they are elected to SERVE not to RULE.

Very bad start by this govt. they let the media get the high ground and exposed the major flaw in our govt............LACK OF ENFORCEMENT.

Any intelligent person realises that Pat doesn’t do compliance.

Pat won’t comply unless he gets hammered in the pocket if he doesn’t comply.

Check the pubs, the supermarkets, the busses trains and taxis.

It’s a joke, an open goal for the media to toy with them as Wilson is doing with ease

Joe Jacob stuff here.

I think it's lack of leadership. They don't think MM will be around long or don't care how he looks. With FF and FG it's a sense self entitlement too.

Edgware

mgn wrote: »

Not good enough for him, waiting around for the next Presidential election i would think.

So Lynn Ruane wont get a free run

McMurphy

Said way back in February that if FF and FG got together in an official Coalition that there was only so many ministerial positions to go around, and there would undoubtedly be some from either party who would feel they were overlooked - potentially resulting in fissures within the marriage and party's themselves.

Hand wave it away now.

Itssoeasy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well......ummmm

I can’t see this thing working.... total fcukery so far

Steady hand of FG needed...........you cant let the media turn you over like a drunken rabbit like Wilson did to Foley.

Should never have taken that interview, only a fool would have done that a day or two into the job.

Notice none of the experienced FG appointees have been heard of.

Baaaaad start.

Yet. Opening minutes of the game Brendan.

James Brown

Cal4567 wrote: »

Read that first as 'the big don' as in Corleone. Gangsters does come to mind.

5 days only and I'm beginning to want FG back at this stage.

They haven't gone away you know.

efanton

Bowie wrote: »

I think it's lack of leadership. They don't think MM will be around long or don't care how he looks. With FF and FG it's a sense self entitlement too.

There's that to it, but I suspect some of these high profile TD's are being cute hoors too. How many people seriously think this government will last the full five year term? I dont.

By distancing themselves from the inevitable sh!tstorms that are going to develop maybe they are putting themselves in positions where they can be the obvious contenders of leadership positions, or go to the electorate if the government collapses with 'clean hands'.

Bannasidhe

Edgware wrote: »

Moynihan has some grounds for complaint though.
He has been a very loyally F.F. man over the years, never engaged in trying to stop a running mate and put in the local work to get two out of three seats for F F. If the people appointed Minister or Junior Minister had done the same FF would have 50 plus seats. Cork N.W. stretches from the edge of Cork city to the Kerry Limerick border and is predominantly a rural constituency. Not that Junior Minister do fûcking anything anyway but it would keep the grassroots happy. Martin will have to pull some tricks to avoid a heave after 2022. The wolves are circling

3 full ministers and a junior from Cork? asked the Cork woman.

It's 'bad' enough the 3 ministers are all from the same constituency,not to mention 2 are seen as being from the same town.
To add a junior min to that would have been a complete PR disaster and who wouldn't get the nod? Coveney or McGrath?

James Brown

efanton wrote: »

There's that to it, but I suspect some of these high profile TD's are being cute hoors too. How many people seriously think this government will last the full five year term? I dont.

By distancing themselves from the inevitable sh!tstorms that are going to develop maybe they are putting themselves in positions where they can be the obvious contenders of leadership positions, or go to the electorate if the government collapses with 'clean hands'.

Once again we see the stability and stepping up ****e for what it is a collection of self interested people and parties. I would be honoured to be asked to help steer the country in any small way.

SpielCheck

Michael Martin gave a masterclass in waffling on 6-1

A portent of what to expect

PixieValentine

Cal4567 wrote: »

As I look at the front page now on their websites at 3pm on Thursday afternoon, both our main 'quality' papers are leading with SF and Michelle O'Neill's attendance in Dublin last weekend and at the funeral in Belfast story, which as news items, both are time limited, but they'll eek them out as much as they can.

If SF actually got into power, this would be wall to wall. Both papers would explode with indignation.

Not a pro or even an anti comment regarding any political party, but this 'let's find any angle to have a dig at SF' is getting tiresome. Before anyone else comes on and says, they deserve it, that's a fair point. It is that it is just getting ridiculous at this stage. Yet, they will decry social media for fake news etc but have a continuous agenda.

Perhaps the weekend supplements, about to be penned, can provide us with many column inches on FF cronyism, or is this still the honeymoon period for the government they, the media, actually wanted, so they get off on any criticism.

We did also have at least 3 or 4 straight days of headlines about Leo’s picnic in the park and endless debate about whether or not he broke lockdown, for what it's worth. Agreed about it being tiresome as hell, but it's just the way the media LOVE to drag stories like that out. The bigger the names involved the more we're stuck hearing about it. There was a lot less media attention and WAY less fuss when a Sinn Fein TD without question definitely DID break lockdown, travelling 50km to attend a party member’s funeral when the limit was 5km, less than a fortnight after that picnic. So it’s not only reserved for them.

jmayo wrote: »

Ringer is doing a bit of sh** stirring.

I think the whole thing shows how disconnected and weak the leaders are, particularly Martin.

They all know he is doomed and not long for the job of either leader of government or indeed his party.

And I bet Ring knows Varadker is planning an exit.
I think Leo has grander aspirations than playing second fiddle for a couple of years and maybe trying to hold together a very unhappy marriage with FF while keeping the mistress, the greens, happy as well .

This type of stuff would never have happened before, definitely not with FF anyway or indeed FG.
Yes people were disappointed, yes they were unhappy with the leaders, yes they organised heaves, but this is right out in the open not a week into power and they couldn't give a rats ass what their leaders think.

The FFers out peddling the line about the chief whip being a difficult important job are actually right seeing the way things are panning out.
The laugh is the plonker leader gave it to one of the ones now most unhappy.

You couldn't write this stuff as fiction.

Agreed with you about the leaders being in a weak position. It couldn’t look MORE like MM has no intention of staying on after he’s done his two years as Taoiseach right now, with the amount of enemies he’s made in literally week 1. But I’m curious about you saying that about Leo- mind if I ask, why do you think he’s about to bail? It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you exactly. I certainly don’t think he’s going to be another version of our newly-minted Taoiseach, still in politics and in and out of government until he’s 60 or anything, I think he’ll be long gone by then. I’m not sure I can even see him leading FG into another election in 5 years time- if this government lasts that long (not that there’s any confidence-inspiring indications it’ll even come close right now :P) But you’re not the first person I’ve seen saying that you think he’s planning his exit, and I’m just curious. I guess I don’t get why he’d go through all this trouble to put together the coalition, which as we know is enormously unpopular even with many in his own party, if he had no intention of at least trying to make it work? I mean, he could have just taken the easier route and taken FG into opposition, and let SF and FF and the rest of them at it, if either way he's set on leaving.

jmayo

PixieValentine wrote: »

...
Agreed with you about the leaders being in a weak position. It couldn’t look MORE like MM has no intention of staying on after he’s done his two years as Taoiseach right now, with the amount of enemies he’s made in literally week 1.

But I’m curious about you saying that about Leo- mind if I ask, why do you think he’s about to bail? It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you exactly. I certainly don’t think he’s going to be another version of our newly-minted Taoiseach, still in politics and in and out of government until he’s 60 or anything, I think he’ll be long gone by then. I’m not sure I can even see him leading FG into another election in 5 years time- if this government lasts that long (not that there’s any confidence-inspiring indications it’ll even come close right now :P) But you’re not the first person I’ve seen saying that you think he’s planning his exit, and I’m just curious. I guess I don’t get why he’d go through all this trouble to put together the coalition, which as we know is enormously unpopular even with many in his own party, if he had no intention of at least trying to make it work? I mean, he could have just taken the easier route and taken FG into opposition, and let SF and FF and the rest of them at it, if either way he's set on leaving.

The party is just not one person.
There are others in the party who might like the old power.
What about Paschal and Simon ?
Two very high profile positions, one getting to have his name very well known due to Brexit.

And Leo is still the defacto deputy prime minister.
Not so bad to have it current on the CV.
And if they are in opposition his position as leader is more under threat.
Some of the key guys have nothing better to do bar than sharpen the knives.
Being in government keeps them busy for a bit.

But I just can't see him busting his ass dong the chicken sandwich circuit ala haughey with ff or indeed Kenny building up the party after Noonan.

Even though in government remember the two Simons on the sidelines.
The one in Cork definitely wants the top job and will sooner or later want to heave Leo.
Pretty bad local election result, bad by elections, and the knives start appearing.

And Leo definitely hasn't the political ability of Kenny to put down a revolt.
Yes you read that last sentence right.
Kenny showed his political abilities when he was totally outnumbered and on the ropes.
He taught Bruton and indeed Leo a lesson.

I expect Leo to show up in Europe.

I'd say he would ultimately fancy something like Commission president.

Podge_irl

jmayo wrote: »

I expect Leo to show up in Europe.

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Snow Garden

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Yeah but Trickle Hogan and Dara 'Expenses' Murphy have shown that it is the land of milk and honey. With the UK leaving, our native English speaking politicians are even more in demand for dealing with chancers in USA/UK/Canada/Australia etc.

efanton

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Lets be honest here, no Taoiseach in the last 20 years can actually say they have have a glowing CV. None have delivered even a fraction of their election promises and none have had the respect of the majority of the people

Bertie, a taoiseach caught with his hands in the till,
BIFFO a taoiseach that almost single handedly bankrupted a nation
Enda, a Taoiseach who could no get his lines right even in front of a teleprompter and made up things on the spur of the moment
Leo a Taoiseach that never once delivered an election promise, and proven to have lied in our parliament.
And now we have Mehole a man that couldnt answer a direct question even it it had a YES/NO answer

If you were in the EU recruiting for a high profile job, would you seriously consider one of the above?

Edgware

jmayo wrote: »

The party is just not one person.
There are others in the party who might like the old power.
What about Paschal and Simon ?
Two very high profile positions, one getting to have his name very well known due to Brexit.

And Leo is still the defacto deputy prime minister.
Not so bad to have it current on the CV.
And if they are in opposition his position as leader is more under threat.
Some of the key guys have nothing better to do bar than sharpen the knives.
Being in government keeps them busy for a bit.

But I just can't see him busting his ass dong the chicken sandwich circuit ala haughey with ff or indeed Kenny building up the party after Noonan.

Even though in government remember the two Simons on the sidelines.
The one in Cork definitely wants the top job and will sooner or later want to heave Leo.
Pretty bad local election result, bad by elections, and the knives start appearing.

And Leo definitely hasn't the political ability of Kenny to put down a revolt.
Yes you read that last sentence right.
Kenny showed his political abilities when he was totally outnumbered and on the ropes.
He taught Bruton and indeed Leo a lesson.

I expect Leo to show up in Europe.

I'd say he would ultimately fancy something like Commission president.

Can you go through that again?

Edgware

Snow Garden wrote: »

Yeah but Trickle Hogan and Dara 'Expenses' Murphy have shown that it is the land of milk and honey. With the UK leaving, our native English speaking politicians are even more in demand for dealing with chancers in USA/UK/Canada/Australia etc.

Don't forget Wallace Daly and Flanagan, all well able to stick their heads into Der Trough

Bannasidhe

Edgware wrote: »

Don't forget Wallace Daly and Flanagan, all well able to stick their heads into Der Trough

None of whom are TDs so that is complete whataboutery.
Dara Murphy brought head in the trough to a whole new level. More relevant to TDs troughing than Flanagan who hasn't been a TD for 6 years.

mgn

Bannasidhe wrote: »

None of whom are TDs so that is complete whataboutery.
Dara Murphy brought head in the trough to a whole new level. More relevant to TDs troughing than Flanagan who hasn't been a TD for 6 years.

The same Flanagan that use to jump up and down about politicians getting paid to much, and if he got elected he would give half of his salary back to local projects.

Soon changed his tune when he jumped on the MEPs gravy train.

Bannasidhe

mgn wrote: »

The same Flanagan that use to jump up and down about politicians getting paid to much, and if he got elected he would give half of his salary back to local projects.

Soon changed his tune when he jumped on the MEPs gravy train.

6 years ago.

Better example still would be Doherty whose company went into liquidation in 2013 with debts of €280k - cira €60k to Revenue,€50k to AIB - their own auditors reported proper accounts weren't kept. Vat monies owed were written off.
https://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

Doherty herself was on a basic TD salary (€92,672 according to https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-salaries-slashed-by-17000-26628389.html ) at the time.

While chief whip there was the matter of the questionable top up of €15,829. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/allowance-paid-to-chief-whip-was-illegal-labour-leader-claims-1.3126893. She did say she was paying that back after getting a letter from Department of Public Expenditure and Reform

By 2017 her pay was €87,258 basic plus €70,282 = €157,540.

By 2020 it was €96,189 + €79,510 salaried allowance = €175,699 according to https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/salaries/

She lost her seat but continued to be paid €1,529.03 a week (https://extra.ie/2020/05/17/news/politics/taxpayers-ghost-ministers-lost-seats) until new govt formed ( I think it's fair she was paid - she was genuinely doing the job) however she also received a 'termination payment' of approx €15,000 plus an additional pay of between €5,600 and €6,500 . So rounding down she got €20k for being fired by the electorate. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-tds-who-lost-or-gave-up-seats-are-paid-586k-991404.html


She is now leader of the very Seanad she lead the campaign to abolish and on a salary of €68,111 plus €20,177 = €88,288 - I haven't even included the various 'expenses' she (and every other TD/Senator) can claim and have claimed.
The info is here if you want to go through it https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8b2180-ministers-expenses/

Now that is a relevant trough.

Not an independent who was never within a sniff of governing and was elected an MEP 6 bloody years ago.

c.p.w.g.w

Find it all very strange, do FF TD's realise how poorly their party is polling...if another election happens this year, most of the lads complaining will be out of work, and the ones who are re-elected are out of government in all likelihood

Bannasidhe

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Find it all very strange, do FF TD's realise how poorly their party is polling...if another election happens this year, most of the lads complaining will be out of work, and the ones who are re-elected are out of government in all likelihood

Perhaps they want the big paying jobs to increase the eventual payoff/pension once the FF ship sinks?

efanton

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Find it all very strange, do FF TD's realise how poorly their party is polling...if another election happens this year, most of the lads complaining will be out of work, and the ones who are re-elected are out of government in all likelihood

Its not the current pay they are chasing.
Those minister pensions add up to a whole pile of money over a lifetime,

ExMachina1000

Is there anything that can be done apart from going on about it repeatedly, anonymously online