FF/FG/Green Next Government

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes. And it will be up to the police to decide if SF were responsible for the behaviour of the crowds who turned up.
As McBride pointed out they had 1800 stewards/marshalls there so they did make some effort.

We'll see what the police say.

The same auld fcukery that always goes on.

What will those who take no responsibility for lack of social distancing do.

Nobody takes responsibility for themselves in this situation, unlike in numerous funerals.

Police are not to blame.

Muahahaha

Snow Garden wrote: »

That is sickening. I am looking forward to this FFG government showing their true colours.

Has the letter Humphreys wrote been released under FOI yet? Be interesting to see the content of that.

Bowie wrote: »

Humphreys pulling strings for someone with no business having livestock and news of Cowen claiming full driving expenses for the period he was banned from driving.
Week one

Plus he was driving on a provisional license at the age of 49. Did he not pass his driving test his whole life? Or did he lose a full license for some other reason? Also says he had two pints before a match at Croker, then dinner, then a drive to Offaly. His two pints excuse doesnt add up one bit

Bannasidhe

Bowie wrote: »

Why write the letter? Did she not know his record? She's not even in office a week ffs..

I found press reports on his previous convictions in a matter of seconds.It wouldn't have been difficult to do a bit of due diligence before getting involved.
She says she delivered the letter for a 3rd party - are TDs moonlighting as couriers now?

RandomViewer

Muahahaha wrote: »

Has the letter Humphreys wrote been released under FOI yet? Be interesting to see the content of that.



Plus he was driving on a provisional license at the age of 49. Did he not pass his driving test his whole life? Or did he lose a full license for some other reason? Also says he had two pints before a match at Croker, then dinner, then a drive to Offaly. His two pints excuse doesnt add up one bit

A long time ago I was breathalyed around 3 in the morning , I would have drank five or six pints of beer the afternoon before, I was clear so two pints of what, raw vodka?

Itssoeasy

I find it amazing that Mary Lou McDonald couldn’t see the obvious backlash over the attendance at the funeral. I mean on a fundamental level she seems a shrewd political mind but clearly made a misstep. The thing is the death of a friend during the lockdown and not being able to attend the funeral is one many people have experienced so poor optics and perception issues there.

The Barry Cowen story is baffling. I mean does Michael Martin not talk with his TDs, because surely he’d have wondered why a TD is his wasn’t driving for three months. Or maybe it’s just something we’d do. Also, he said he had two pints before the match so given the match would have started at 3:30pm, and he had something to eat he says, and getting out of Dublin on all Ireland final day is a pain, and half of mayo were going west, two pints of what exactly ?

Bishop of hope

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I find it amazing that Mary Lou McDonald couldn’t see the obvious backlash over the attendance at the funeral. I mean on a fundamental level she seems a shrewd political mind but clearly made a misstep. The thing is the death of a friend during the lockdown and not being able to attend the funeral is one many people have experienced so poor optics and perception issues there.

The Barry Cowen story is baffling. I mean does Michael Martin not talk with his TDs, because surely he’d have wondered why a TD is his wasn’t driving for three months. Or maybe it’s just something we’d do. Also, he said he had two pints before the match so given the match would have started at 3:30pm, and he had something to eat he says, and getting out of Dublin on all Ireland final day is a pain, and half of mayo were going west, two pints of what exactly ?

Maybe he was the fella Enda was talking about with the two pints, one in each hand.
Maybe one hand didn't know what the other was doing (quite possible for a politician) so he had four pints.

Bannasidhe

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I find it amazing that Mary Lou McDonald couldn’t see the obvious backlash over the attendance at the funeral. I mean on a fundamental level she seems a shrewd political mind but clearly made a misstep. The thing is the death of a friend during the lockdown and not being able to attend the funeral is one many people have experienced so poor optics and perception issues there.

The Barry Cowen story is baffling. I mean does Michael Martin not talk with his TDs, because surely he’d have wondered why a TD is his wasn’t driving for three months. Or maybe it’s just something we’d do. Also, he said he had two pints before the match so given the match would have started at 3:30pm, and he had something to eat he says, and getting out of Dublin on all Ireland final day is a pain, and half of mayo were going west, two pints of what exactly ?

It was stupid.
If I was being charitable I would say grief clouded her judgement.

If I was being cynical I would say it's another instance of SF really just being where FF were before Haughey - more to the left but still believing in exceptionalism for the political classes.

A lovely, kind, funny, friend of over 30 years died (not Covid) just at the end of Phase 2. He really was another Grandfather to my son. I would have loved to drive with him on his last journey from Marymount Hospice to West Cork and be there to say goodbye with his family - who all came to my Father's funeral last Oct. But I couldn't because I followed the restrictions. A week later I could have.
I am tending towards the cynical.


I can't get my head around the Cowen timeline at all.
But what I really can't get my head around is how some people are making excuses.
He drove while over the limit. That is a crime. There are no excuses.

Same for Kelliher. O'Neill shouldn't have travelled to Dublin but at least she technically did not break any restrictions (still shouldn't have travelled mind imo), Kelliher knowingly didn't self-isolate.

Itssoeasy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It was stupid.
If I was being charitable I would say grief clouded her judgement.

If I was being cynical I would say it's another instance of SF really just being where FF were before Haughey - more to the left but still believing in exceptionalism for the political classes.

A lovely, kind, funny, friend of over 30 years died (not Covid) just at the end of Phase 2. He really was another Grandfather to my son. I would have loved to drive with him on his last journey from Marymount Hospice to West Cork and be there to say goodbye with his family - who all came to my Father's funeral last Oct. But I couldn't because I followed the restrictions. A week later I could have.
I am tending towards the cynical.


I can't get my head around the Cowen timeline at all.
But what I really can't get my head around is how some people are making excuses.
He drove while over the limit. That is a crime. There are no excuses.

Same for Kelliher. O'Neill shouldn't have travelled to Dublin but at least she technically did not break any restrictions (still shouldn't have travelled mind imo), Kelliher knowingly didn't self-isolate.

And it's not whatever phase it was in though. It's the fact you and many others couldn't give a friend or loved one "the send off they deserved" is what makes me confused as to why they couldn't see how this would looks optics wise. Especially since Mary lou got covid-19 you'd think it would be front of mind.

Do we know what time Barry cowen was collared at the checkpoint ? It's just the two pints doesn't add up.

Michelle O'Neill has been hurt by the fact she was front and centre in regards to the norths restrictions and it's the spirit of the rules is the issue.

I no idea what billy Kelliher was thinking(thinking may be generous) with his carry on.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Maybe he was the fella Enda was talking about with the two pints, one in each hand.
Maybe one hand didn't know what the other was doing (quite possible for a politician) so he had four pints.

Now that's a joke

BonnieSituation

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Back on that, Michael has said he accepts Cowens apology and he feels he has genuine remorse.
So unless outside pressure makes him change his mind it looks like he will do nothing.
I wonder will cowen make a Dáil statement and apologise there too. Its been a humiliating weekend for him and he deserves it all.

Are you saying we shouldn't hold our Minister of Agriculture to a standard above that of a 17yo student? He was literally as qualified as my nephew to be on the road on his own.

Some of the excuses being lobbed out about how "he wouldn't have been above the limit if he had a full licence" are beyond the pale.

He was a TD. His brother was Taoiseach. His dad was a Minister of State under Haughey.

And what he did is acceptable?

The days of drink driving getting a pass are over.

When Leo had the temerity, as Taoiseach, to meet friends in a Park near his house we couldn't hear the end of it, but the Minister of Agriculture literally broke the law - and I still haven't heard if he had a fully licenced driver with him - and either:

1. He said nowt to Micheal about it (two days before the ploughing that he had ample time to spill) or

2. He told Micheal and our new Taoiseach has decided it's not important to hold his cabinet colleagues to the standards that I expect of my nephew...


Neither of these are good...

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

And it's not whatever phase it was in though. It's the fact you and many others couldn't give a friend or loved one "the send off they deserved" is what makes me confused as to why they couldn't see how this would looks optics wise. Especially since Mary lou got covid-19 you'd think it would be front of mind.

Do we know what time Barry cowen was collared at the checkpoint ? It's just the two pints doesn't add up.

Michelle O'Neill has been hurt by the fact she was front and centre in regards to the norths restrictions and it's the spirit of the rules is the issue.

I no idea what billy Kelliher was thinking(thinking may be generous) with his carry on.

Collared at the check point?

As in got caught? Are there levels of "caught" that don't apply to a learner permit holding Barry Cowen?

I was at that All Ireland final as well. I considered a cab as well. And then I got a cab.

BonnieSituation

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It was stupid.
If I was being charitable I would say grief clouded her judgement.

If I was being cynical I would say it's another instance of SF really just being where FF were before Haughey - more to the left but still believing in exceptionalism for the political classes.

A lovely, kind, funny, friend of over 30 years died (not Covid) just at the end of Phase 2. He really was another Grandfather to my son. I would have loved to drive with him on his last journey from Marymount Hospice to West Cork and be there to say goodbye with his family - who all came to my Father's funeral last Oct. But I couldn't because I followed the restrictions. A week later I could have.
I am tending towards the cynical.


I can't get my head around the Cowen timeline at all.
But what I really can't get my head around is how some people are making excuses.
He drove while over the limit. That is a crime. There are no excuses.

Same for Kelliher. O'Neill shouldn't have travelled to Dublin but at least she technically did not break any restrictions (still shouldn't have travelled mind imo), Kelliher knowingly didn't self-isolate.

Remember how much of a martyr Micheal was made out to be because the clann we're still down below in Cork for his ascension?

And yet Billy was grand flying in from Brussels and not a peep out of Fianna Fáil and yet they were going goodo at the Deputy First Minister for breaking NO regulations. Imagine.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Collared at the check point?

As in got caught? Are there levels of "caught" that don't apply to a learner permit holding Barry Cowen?

I was at that All Ireland final as well. I considered a cab as well. And then I got a cab.

Yes caught. No levels, not that I know of BS. I was just wondering what time on that Sunday he was stopped. If he had two pints sometime before 3:30pm then I'd love to know what time he was stopped at. The time doesn't add up to me.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yes caught. No levels, not that I know of BS. I was just wondering what time on that Sunday he was stopped. If he had two pints sometime before 3:30pm then I'd love to know what time he was stopped at. The time doesn't add up to me.

Sorry, I misread your post as being on his side of his bullshít story. Apologies.

Yes, you're correct. It makes no sense.

And I say that as someone who has been to quite a few matches and subsequently driven after them. Thing is, if I'm gonna drive after them I'm not touching one pint these days, never mind two.

Actually, for accuracy, semi final 2013- Dublin v Kerry: I had a singular pint of Guinness in the Red Parrot around 2pm. Went to the match. Got back to Cabra straight after the game with my brother to take my mate's car - I have a full licence and open drive like an adult. Drove to my parents house and then my sister dropped me back to electric picnic in Stradbally, Co Laois.

So it's not far off the journey Barry took. Seems like someone of his means and contacts could have worked something out? I mean, I managed it on the fly?

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Sorry, I misread your post as being on his side of his bullshít story. Apologies.

Yes, you're correct. It makes no sense.

And I say that as someone who has been to quite a few matches and subsequently driven after them. Thing is, if I'm gonna drive after them I'm not touching one pint these days, never mind two.

Actually, for accuracy, semi final 2013- Dublin v Kerry: I had a singular pint of Guinness in the Red Parrot around 2pm. Went to the match. Got back to Cabra straight after the game with my brother to take my mate's car - I have a full licence and open drive like an adult. Drove to my parents house and then my sister dropped me back to electric picnic in Stradbally, Co Laois.

So it's not far off the journey Barry took. Seems like someone of his means and contacts could have worked something out? I mean, I managed it on the fly?

Apologies if I wasn't clear also. It's the timeline that I take issue with.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Apologies if I wasn't clear also. It's the timeline that I take issue with.

Aye. I was thinking it was a tad strange that you were coming down on the "defensive" side.:)

FrancieBrady

Is this the end of the stock deflection in the Dáil when the opposition does it job?

MichaelMartin wrote:

It did get dealt with at the time, four years ago. Are you going to condemn someone for the rest of the lives for something that happened four years ago,

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is this the end of the stock deflection in the Dáil when the opposition does it job?

I seen this argument rolled out online yesterday by others also, "Barry was punished appropriately at the time, he has paid the price for his mistakes, and is entitled to move on"

They then followed that line up with something about Dessie Ellis

You couldn't make it up.

Professor Moriarty

In the midst of a global pandemic, an economy in shreds, Brexit looming and climate change hurtling down the tracks, all some agenda-driven posters on here can talk about is Barry Cowen ad nauseam. Laughable. As if anyone with half a brain reading this thread would buy into such pathetic deflection.

James Brown

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In the midst of a global pandemic, an economy in shreds, Brexit looming and climate change hurtling down the tracks, all some agenda-driven posters on here can talk about is Barry Cowen ad nauseam. Laughable. As if anyone with half a brain reading this thread would buy into such pathetic deflection.

Not the most important item on the nation's agenda but it's current and in the news. It asks more questions than the mere drunk driving.
Do you think by discussing it we are deflecting from Brexit, Covid19, the shinners at a funeral, the two FF'ers who flouted covid restrictions to see MM inaugurated, the economy etc.?
People can multitask.

Professor Moriarty

Bowie wrote: »

Not the most important item on the nation's agenda but it's current and in the news. It asks more questions than the mere drunk driving.
Do you think by discussing it we are deflecting from Brexit, Covid19, the shinners at a funeral, the two FF'ers who flouted covid restrictions to see MM inaugurated, the economy etc.?
People can multitask.

That depends on how you define 'we'. There are people on here whose only objective is to deflect from SF and magnify problems in other parties.

StackSteevens

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Whistleblower says FG minister intervened in an animal cruelty prosecution

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/official-blows-whistle-on-animal-cruelty-case-dropped-after-heather-humphreys-letter-5dlzb6h6g


According to this Wright was prosecuted in 2017 https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/court-hears-of-horror-animal-welfare-scene-at-border-farm-35414671.html

Same guy prosecuted in 2008 https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/the-irish-times/20080312/281638185909682

Banned from farming for life and told to divest himself of all livestock within 60 days in 2010 https://www.anglocelt.ie/2010/02/24/banned-from-farming-for-life/

Now in 2020 we have this
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/farmer-says-ministers-move-may-have-put-halt-to-animal-cruelty-charges-38982684.html#:~:text=Brian%20Wright%2C%20Killygorman%2C%20Newbliss%2C%20Co%20Monaghan.,-Patrick%20O'Connell&text=A%20FARMER%20who%20was%20facing,in%20his%20case%20being%20dropped.


Animal welfare is a serious issue in this country and one of the main problems ls lack of enforcement/prosecution.
Now we have a Govt minister 'delivering a letter' in relation to the 4th prosecution of a farmer banned 10 years ago from farming due to animal cruelty.

If Sinn Fein in opposition are any good, then they - supported by the Soc Dems - should hound Humphreys relentlessly over this until the full story comes out. Because it stinks to high heaven.

As an aside, I was puzzled as to why The Sunday Times didn't allow any readers' comments under the report, which is quite unusual unless the report relates to an ongoing court case.

Bannasidhe

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That depends on how you define 'we'. There are people on here whose only objective is to deflect from SF and magnify problems in other parties.

There is at least one thread dedicated to discussing SF so, imho, the deflecting to SF in the thread about FF/FG/Green government is a much bigger waste of time. It look like rather than discuss govt parties some here just want to whatabout the opposition.

I have no real interest in discussing SF at the moment tbh, I'm did not vote for them, I won't be voting for them, they are not the people in currently charge of policy and legislation that affects me, which is why I don't post in the SF thread - hardly need to really given some want to turn this into another SF thread.
Should they get into govt I will be interested - or if as opposition they are calling the govt to task as is their job. But all I see happening here is whatabout SF every time someone makes an on topic comment.

At least discussing the fact that a newly appointed minister was, while a TD in opposition, suspended from driving due to being over the limit, and his party leader - now Taoiseach - was apparently unaware of this is relevant as it speaks to the character of a member of the current govt , the govt this thread is about, and whether the Taoiseach is aware of what is going on in his own party.

McMurphy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That depends on how you define 'we'. There are people on here whose only objective is to deflect from SF and magnify problems in other parties.

On that, it happens quite a lot in the real world too prof, just yesterday morning I witnessed FG TD Peter Burke give Aine Lawler an answer, the general gist of which was "IRA this IRA that, Sinn Fein rabble rabble" when asked a question about the merits of whether or not the govt should refund people who decide to forego their holiday arrangements.

I'm not messing.

Check it out yourself if you don't believe me.

James Brown

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That depends on how you define 'we'. There are people on here whose only objective is to deflect from SF and magnify problems in other parties.

I don't see that. I see people who would give SF a vote and who openly support them above others, with FF, Green and FG voters trying to discuss various topics involving the governing parties, then folk try turn it to SF.
Some examples:

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Do you do the same for Sinn Féin hypocrisy?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah. Someone should get €50,000 worth of print cartridges and print off these outrageous scandals.

And when people, myself included, try knock that ****e out of the park, we get called shinnerbots or accused of trying to deflect from SF.
Yes, I'm very guilty of that. If I am in a discussion about the antics of FF/FG/GP and a particular incident I will try deflect any changing the discussion to SF.

You just said we'd:

In the midst of a global pandemic, an economy in shreds, Brexit looming and climate change hurtling down the tracks, all some agenda-driven posters on here can talk about is Barry Cowen ad nauseam. Laughable. As if anyone with half a brain reading this thread would buy into such pathetic deflection

Now you seem to be upset we aren't talking about SF more. Who are the agenda driven posters again?

Professor Moriarty

Bowie wrote: »

I don't see that. I see people who would give SF a vote and who openly support them above others, with FF, Green and FG voters trying to discuss various topics involving the governing parties, then folk try turn it to SF.
Some examples:





And when people, myself included, try knock that ****e out of the park, we get called shinnerbots or accused of trying to deflect from SF.
Yes, I'm very guilty of that. If I am in a discussion about the antics of FF/FG/GP and a particular incident I will try deflect any changing the discussion to SF.

You just said we'd:



Now you seem to be upset we aren't talking about SF more. Who are the agenda driven posters again?

You have illustrated my point perfectly.

Bannasidhe

StackSteevens wrote: »

If Sinn Fein in opposition are any good, then they - supported by the Soc Dems - should hound Humphreys relentlessly over this until the full story comes out. Because it stinks to high heaven.

As an aside, I was puzzled as to why The Sunday Times didn't allow any readers' comments under the report, which is quite unusual unless the report relates to an ongoing court case.

SF haven't exactly covered themselves in glory when it comes to animal welfare legislation in this country tbh - but I would be disappointed if the Soc Dem's don't make an issue of it.
There should also be questions asked of the Greens who did run on an animal welfare platform and have already rowed back on that. Many who voted for them are not happy.

Of course there is also the issue of politicians writing letters for unsavoury characters who are up before the courts. Again.

tobefrank321

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In the midst of a global pandemic, an economy in shreds, Brexit looming and climate change hurtling down the tracks, all some agenda-driven posters on here can talk about is Barry Cowen ad nauseam. Laughable. As if anyone with half a brain reading this thread would buy into such pathetic deflection.

Not a great indication of the abilities of this government though.

We've already had Cowen, then Kelleher potentially bringing covid 19 home with him and not isolating, then Varadkar insisting on an Aide De Camp and Coveney insisting on keeping his ministerial car. This as the economy downturns. Not to mention disenfranchising the entire western seaboard from the cabinet table, a region that will be hit hard by tourism lost to covid 19.

Hardly the best start is it?

Professor Moriarty

McMurphy wrote: »

On that, it happens quite a lot in the real world too prof, just yesterday morning I witnessed FG TD Peter Burke give Aine Lawler an answer, the general gist of which was "IRA this IRA that, Sinn Fein rabble rabble" when asked a question about the merits of whether or not the govt should refund people who decide to forego their holiday arrangements.

I'm not messing.

Check it out yourself if you don't believe me.

I believe you. Deliberate deflection and pettiness in the midst of crises. As evidenced on this thread.

Professor Moriarty

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Not a great indication of the abilities of this government though.

We've already had Cowen, then Kelleher potentially bringing covid 19 home with him and not isolating, then Varadkar insisting on an Aide De Camp and Coveney insisting on keeping his ministerial car. This as the economy downturns. Not to mention disenfranchising the entire western seaboard from the cabinet table, a region that will be hit hard by tourism lost to covid 19.

Hardly the best start is it?

I'm more concerned about how this government intends to tackle Covid-19, climate change, Brexit and a shattered economy. But look, let people continue to bring up Cowen and Kelleher because that's like really so important. It's not like they have an agenda or anything when they continuously focus on them.