FF/FG/Green Next Government

James Brown

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Also, will the Heather Humphreys scandal be bigger and more destructive than Barry Cowen's situation? What an absolute spanner. The Greens will be watching very closely...

It should be pretty big. Radio silence from many quarters but it won't go away nor should it.
Pulling something like that on week one. Did it land on her desk within days of taking the post or had she it in her back pocket in the run up?
Thankfully it's not easy to hide such things. She should step down.

Professor Moriarty

markodaly wrote: »

Right thing to do in my opinion.
There is enough stuff to be doing in this term rather than opening up that can of worms.

Also, it's not likely to pass anyhow.

When we have the economy back in shape, the pandemic under control, a proper climate change policy and Brexit behind us, then would should start looking towards the possibility of a referendum. We don't need the distraction now.

LawBoy2018

Bowie wrote: »

It should be pretty big. Radio silence from many quarters but it won't go away nor should it.
Pulling something like that on week one. Did it land on her desk within days of taking the post or had she it in her back pocket in the run up?
Thankfully it's not easy to hide such things. She should step down.

What do you mean? I think you're misinformed. She sent the letter at the beginning of the year.

It's in the news now because a whistleblower has come forward and made a special disclosure regarding the decision.

markodaly

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

When we have the economy back in shape, the pandemic under control, a proper climate change policy and Brexit behind us, then would should start looking towards the possibility of a referendum. We don't need the distraction now.

At least a decade away imo if not more.

Muahahaha

Snow Garden wrote: »

Worst start by a government ever?

Greens must already be wondering why they got into bed with FFG who clearly have never lost their arrogance.

I cant ever remember such a bad start by a government. Their usual honeymoon period has gotten thrown out the window in less than a week.

Billy Kelleher must be cracking up laughing here, he got away with one thanks to Cowen. Then youve got Jim oCallaghan up on the back benches scheming against Martin, Dara Callearys nose is out of joint as well. FF are an absolute mess, they are making FG look good right now but lets see what Heather might throw up, a whistleblower certainly thinks its serious enough to put their career on the line over it.

LawBoy2018

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

When we have the economy back in shape, the pandemic under control, a proper climate change policy and Brexit behind us, then would should start looking towards the possibility of a referendum. We don't need the distraction now.

There will always be a reason to kick the can down the road. There are more foreign immigrants in Ireland atm than there are unionists. What's seen as a 'distraction' for some, could be construed as a new hope for the future for others.

It confuses me how MM & Leo Varadkar can villify SF for the state of NI atm while simultaneously showing 0 interest in actually working towards a united Ireland whereby the purse strings wouldn't be controlled by the HOC and we could breathe a new lease of life into the more disadvantaged areas up the north. NI leaving the EU doesn't benefit anyone, hence why the people of NI voted to remain within the EU.

James Brown

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

What do you mean? I think you're misinformed. She sent the letter at the beginning of the year.

It's in the news now because a whistleblower has come forward and made a special disclosure regarding the decision.

Yes, my mistake,
Her being in rural development for a week when it came to light won't help matters.

Professor Moriarty

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

There will always be a reason to kick the can down the road. There are more foreign immigrants in Ireland atm than there are unionists. What's seen as a 'distraction' for some, could be construed as a new hope for the future for others.

It confuses me how MM & Leo Varadkar can villify SF for the state of NI atm while simultaneously showing 0 interest in actually working towards a united Ireland whereby the purse strings wouldn't be controlled by the HOC and we could breathe a new lease of life into the more disadvantaged areas up the north. NI leaving the EU doesn't benefit anyone, hence why the people of NI voted to remain within the EU.

I hope for an end to the pandemic, a viable economy and a sustainable environment. If we don't get those right, there will be no referendum. They are vilifying SF because SF are vilifying them. That's politics. It's important not conflate a wish to remain in the EU with a wish for a United Ireland. They are very different concepts.

Podge_irl

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

It confuses me how MM & Leo Varadkar can villify SF for the state of NI atm while simultaneously showing 0 interest in actually working towards a united Ireland whereby the purse strings wouldn't be controlled by the HOC and we could breathe a new lease of life into the more disadvantaged areas up the north. NI leaving the EU doesn't benefit anyone, hence why the people of NI voted to remain within the EU.

By doing what exactly?

A UI referendum is, in essence, not in our government's hands. It is in the SOS for NI's hands. So committing to one would be pretty stupid.

LawBoy2018

Podge_irl wrote: »

By doing what exactly?

A UI referendum is, in essence, not in our government's hands. It is in the SOS for NI's hands. So committing to one would be pretty stupid.

By actually building towards a UI and figuring out how to handle the problems associated with a UI that he cited in the Dáil.

He could do so by speaking to Thomas Byrne who actually debated in favour of uniting Ireland in Oxford university last year, outlining why we are, in fact, ready to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpn1PxytHJI

James Brown

Podge_irl wrote: »

By doing what exactly?

A UI referendum is, in essence, not in our government's hands. It is in the SOS for NI's hands. So committing to one would be pretty stupid.

More of this, but cross community:



Normalise the north/south connection.

Podge_irl

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

By actually building towards a UI and figuring out how to handle the problems associated with a UI that he cited in the Dáil.

He could do so by speaking to Thomas Byrne who actually debated in favour of uniting Ireland in Oxford university last year, outlining why we are, in fact, ready to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpn1PxytHJI

Ireland readiness or not for a UI is still essentially utterly irrelevant to the topic of a UI referendum. It is not within our power to call one (or at least, not within our power to call one with any legitimacy or purpose) and there is no indication of one happening in NI any time soon. I don't know what "building towards a UI" actually means in this context but its going to be pretty difficult to figure out hoe to handle the problems without engagement with NI - ALL of NI - and that also isn't about to happen.

I mean, the govt have spent quite a bit of time ensuring that as things stand the NI-Ire border is a smoother one than the NI-GB border. That seems like pretty good work in this context.

ELM327

Bowie wrote: »

More of this, but cross community:



Normalise the north/south connection.

I'm a FG voter but photo ops like that make me feel sick.

Topgear on Dave

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm a FG voter but photo ops like that make me feel sick.

In a united Ireland the DUP would sit in the Dail. There's always been O.O. lodges north and south.

Unionist parties would have considerable influence.

Brendan Bendar

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm a FG voter but photo ops like that make me feel sick.

Whooooooy?

ELM327

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

In a united Ireland the DUP would sit in the Dail. There's always been O.O. lodges north and south.

Unionist parties would have considerable influence.

There was unionist representation in the election of 1918 too. That's fine. As a defender of democracy they can have as many seats in the dáil as their voter base demands.

ELM327

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Whooooooy?

Because the LOL are a body behind a foreign invader.

McMurphy

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Also, will the Heather Humphreys scandal be bigger and more destructive than Barry Cowen's situation? What an absolute spanner. The Greens will be watching very closely...

Did I imagine things, or did I read that Heather Humphreys "delivered the letter"?

Personally like? By hand yeah?

LawBoy2018

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ireland readiness or not for a UI is still essentially utterly irrelevant to the topic of a UI referendum. It is not within our power to call one (or at least, not within our power to call one with any legitimacy or purpose) and there is no indication of one happening in NI any time soon. I don't know what "building towards a UI" actually means in this context but its going to be pretty difficult to figure out hoe to handle the problems without engagement with NI - ALL of NI - and that also isn't about to happen.

I mean, the govt have spent quite a bit of time ensuring that as things stand the NI-Ire border is a smoother one than the NI-GB border. That seems like pretty good work in this context.

You say that there's no indication of a border poll in NI for the foreseeable, but I would disagree that assertion. Northern Ireland are on the brink of a 'deep and prolonged economic downturn' and they are also due to be ripped from the EU, despite voting to remain. The outlook in NI for the next decade seems bleak to say the least.

Why would anyone other than a loyalist vote against a united Ireland if it meant that they'd have a better chance of prosperity for the next decade?

The outcome of the 2021 census in NI will be very interesting indeed.



https://www.irishnews.com/business/2020/06/17/news/northern-ireland-faces-a-deep-and-prolonged-economic-downturn--1977017/

LawBoy2018

McMurphy wrote: »

Did I imagine things, or did I read that Heather Humphreys "delivered the letter"?

Personally like? By hand yeah?

That was the language used anyways but I'd say we'll find out more in the coming weeks.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/official-blows-whistle-on-animal-cruelty-case-dropped-after-heather-humphreys-letter-5dlzb6h6g

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Did I imagine things, or did I read that Heather Humphreys "delivered the letter"?

Personally like? By hand yeah?

This is an explanation from February, it seem this isn't a new allegation as its been on before, I could remember reading it at the time and it seemed to die off at that stage.
Humphreys claims it wasn't her letter, but a letter she received from a constituent that she passed on to the depot of agriculture.
Make of it what you will after that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/humphreys-did-not-interfere-in-dropped-animal-cruelty-case-1.4175681%3fmode=amp

BonnieSituation

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Was MM rejecting the notion of a united Ireland referendum during his term the final shred of FF's core values/principles? In my view, they now stand for absolutely nothing.

I missed that. Link?

Seems odd given a unity unit in his department was part of the PfG.

dundalkfc10

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I missed that. Link?

Seems odd given a unity unit in his department was part of the PfG.

They have already said yesterday they couldn't and would not put a cap on affordable housing, even though that was in their manifesto.

Professor Moriarty

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

You say that there's no indication of a border poll in NI for the foreseeable, but I would disagree that assertion. Northern Ireland are on the brink of a 'deep and prolonged economic downturn' and they are also due to be ripped from the EU, despite voting to remain. The outlook in NI for the next decade seems bleak to say the least.

Why would anyone other than a loyalist vote against a united Ireland if it meant that they'd have a better chance of prosperity for the next decade?

The outcome of the 2021 census in NI will be very interesting indeed.



https://www.irishnews.com/business/2020/06/17/news/northern-ireland-faces-a-deep-and-prolonged-economic-downturn--1977017/

We are facing a deficit of 26 billion this year. Before Brexit hits next year. It will take years for the economy to recover. How much would a United Ireland add to that deficit on a yearly basis?

BonnieSituation

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

When we have the economy back in shape, the pandemic under control, a proper climate change policy and Brexit behind us, then would should start looking towards the possibility of a referendum. We don't need the distraction now.

The lead up to a referendum bees to be discussed.

The point of the Unity unit is to prepare the ground work.

Reunification has a bearing on the economy, the environment, Brexit and the pandemic. If anything it is remiss to ignore it until "everything else is sorted".

BonnieSituation

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ireland readiness or not for a UI is still essentially utterly irrelevant to the topic of a UI referendum. It is not within our power to call one (or at least, not within our power to call one with any legitimacy or purpose) and there is no indication of one happening in NI any time soon. I don't know what "building towards a UI" actually means in this context but its going to be pretty difficult to figure out hoe to handle the problems without engagement with NI - ALL of NI - and that also isn't about to happen.

I mean, the govt have spent quite a bit of time ensuring that as things stand the NI-Ire border is a smoother one than the NI-GB border. That seems like pretty good work in this context.

How much more engagement should we have with beligerent Unionists' who actively deride amd ignore any discussions on the islands future and economy?

Some time you just have to move on without the toddlers.

Professor Moriarty

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The lead up to a referendum bees to be discussed.

The point of the Unity unit is to prepare the ground work.

Reunification has a bearing on the economy, the environment, Brexit and the pandemic. If anything it is remiss to ignore it until "everything else is sorted".

It would be remiss to pay it any attention until more important issues are sorted. While the economy is in free fall and we are coping with a pandemic, it's a meaningless sideshow.

Truthvader

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The lead up to a referendum bees to be discussed.

The point of the Unity unit is to prepare the ground work.

Reunification has a bearing on the economy, the environment, Brexit and the pandemic. If anything it is remiss to ignore it until "everything else is sorted".

Only mad people want reunification. It is some kind of Gaelic fantasy wonderland where deluded people think that all their problems will be solved forever "if only we had a united Ireland." Moreover thanks to Uncle Gerry and the lads in Sinn Fein IRA it is now a toxic and infected product that will take another 100 years to recover any attraction.

The reality is that Norn Iron is a vast dysfunctional money pit controlled by two identical tribes that hate each other currently being bought off by the Brits who are the only people that can afford it

You only have to read the posts of the United Ireland mob here to know what it would bring. And don't forget the Loyalist crowd don't even contribute here

dundalkfc10

Truthvader wrote: »

Only mad people want reunification. It is some kind of Gaelic fantasy wonderland where deluded people think that all their problems will be solved forever "if only we had a united Ireland." Moreover thanks to Uncle Gerry and the lads in Sinn Fein IRA it is now a toxic and infected product that will take another 100 years to recover any attraction.

The reality is that Norn Iron is a vast dysfunctional money pit controlled by two identical tribes that hate each other currently being bought off by the Brits who are the only people that can afford it

You only have to read the posts of the United Ireland mob here to know what it would bring. And don't forget the Loyalist crowd don't even contribute here

One of your bigger LIES

BonnieSituation

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It would be remiss to pay it any attention until more important issues are sorted. While the economy is in free fall and we are coping with a pandemic, it's a meaningless sideshow.

It most certainly is not meaningless.