FF/FG/Green Next Government

Podge_irl

efanton wrote: »

The SOS for Northern Ireland is obliged to call a referendum if it is clear to them that it is likely that a majority would vote in favour of a United Ireland.

Fair enough, that is true. I think the way it is worded the SOS has a reasonable amount of leeway as to what they would consider "likely" but I did perhaps over-egg it somewhat.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Correct and at this moment in time, there is no clear signal where a majority would vote for it, in fact if it were held it would certainly be defeated.

The Unionist Victims Rights campaigner Raymond McCourt's case against the SoS, where he attempted to compel the SoS to set out fixed criteria for a Border Poll, failed.

The court found that the SoS can use ANY criteria or any combination of criteria to reach a decision. He/She does not have to evidence it or justify it either.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Unionist Victims Rights campaigner Raymond McCourt's case against the SoS, where he attempted to compel the SoS to set out fixed criteria for a Border Poll, failed.

The court found that the SoS can use ANY criteria or any combination of criteria to reach a decision. He/She does not have to evidence it or justify it either.

Link to the ruling please?

Truthvader

Podge_irl wrote: »

The very running of a border poll is in the grace of the SOS for NI, and there is zero chance of the current UK govt allowing one, particularly with the issues they are facing up in Scotland.

Also, in reference to other points, Unionists in the North can safely refuse to engage with the Irish govt seeing as they are aware of the fact that NI remains part of the UK and will remain part of the UK for the foreseeable and there is A)very little republicans in the North and B)nothing we can do about it. I think it ideological stupidity, but they are clearly getting away with it. NI has had a worse economy than Ireland for decades at this point - even if Brexit/Covid/whatever is enough to shift the dial the idea it would happen in the time period of this coalition is absurd.

Are there still people out there who think the British Government have the slightest interest in holding on to Norn Iron?

Really?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Link to the ruling please?

I posted it before and if you aren't aware of it, you shouldn't really be talking about the subject, because you know not what you say.

In the present case the Secretary of State is given a discretionary power to order a border poll under Schedule 1 paragraph 1 even where she is not of the view that it is likely that the majority of voters would vote for Northern Ireland to cease to be part of the United Kingdom and to become part of a united Ireland. Under paragraph 2 she is subject to a duty to call a border poll “if at any time it appears to her” that a majority would be likely to vote in favour of leaving the United Kingdom and joining a united Ireland. The discretionary power as opposed to the mandatory duty to call a poll could be exercised by the Secretary of State for a number of different reasons and in different circumstances. For example, the Secretary of State could call a poll in order to give a quietus to the controversial question of a united Ireland for a period of time if she thinks that a majority would vote in favour of remaining in the United Kingdom. She could direct such a poll if there was a doubt in her mind as to whether a majority was to be found on one side or the other. She could decide to call such a poll if persuaded by political representatives that it would be desirable to sound the people out on the issue or to close the issue for a number of years. The precise circumstances and the political context of a decision are variable and highly political. Decision-making in this area requires a political assessment on the part of the Secretary of State and in this context political flexibility and judgment are called for. In such a context I am wholly unpersuaded by the argument that the Secretary of State is to be bound by a policy detailing the way in which that flexible and politically sensitive power is bound to be exercised.

https://judiciaryni.uk/sites/judiciary/files/decisions/McCord%27s%20%28Raymond%29%20Application..pdf

McMurphy

Truthvader wrote: »

Are there still people out there who think the British Government have the slightest interest in holding on to Norn Iron?

Really?

You'd have to feel pretty unloved and waisting a tremendous amount of time and energy if you're a loyalist so.

Truthvader

McMurphy wrote: »

You'd have to feel pretty unloved and waisting a tremendous amount of time and energy if you're a loyalist so.

Unloved? I'd say the Brits hate them - and that's the ones even aware. For most its some kind of everlasting regional Rangers Celtic match of no relevance to anyone

The Loyalists are an incomprehensible mystery to your average English person. The reality is that the average Northern republican has little in common with anyone from the "Free State" and the average Loyalist little in common with anyone from the Mainland UK

They are however exactly like each other

The_Brood

A few weeks in and already it looks like this new government may be the worst in Irish history.

Truthvader

The_Brood wrote: »

A few weeks in and already it looks like this new government may be the worst in Irish history.

Worse than Haughey/ Bertie/ Cowan??


Say its not true

smelly sock

Some job FFG are doing already. A circus.

FF are like a bunch of bold kids. I'd imagine that Leo sees whats coming in terms of a huge recession and was more than happy to let meehole take over.

Podge_irl

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Unionist Victims Rights campaigner Raymond McCourt's case against the SoS, where he attempted to compel the SoS to set out fixed criteria for a Border Poll, failed.

The court found that the SoS can use ANY criteria or any combination of criteria to reach a decision. He/She does not have to evidence it or justify it either.

Does it work both ways?

Truthvader wrote: »

Are there still people out there who think the British Government have the slightest interest in holding on to Norn Iron?

Really?

I don't think they gave a ****e about Northern Ireland or the people who live there. But I also think they are ideologically opposed to any rupture in the UK, particularly with the Scottish question at the moment. So yeah, I think the British govt very much has interest in holding on to NI, they just have no interest in governing it or helping it.

Truthvader

Podge_irl wrote: »

Does it work both ways?



I don't think they gave a ****e about Northern Ireland or the people who live there. But I also think they are ideologically opposed to any rupture in the UK, particularly with the Scottish question at the moment. So yeah, I think the British govt very much has interest in holding on to NI, they just have no interest in governing it or helping it.

Not sure you're right

Scotland = North sea oil, kilts, ships and sheep etc

Northern Ireland =dead soldiers and an endless money pit - plus having to listen to the likes of Arlene, Gerry, Michelle, Nigel and the crew endlessly whinging

I'd say they would sink the entire province under the sea if they could

Truthvader

Ciaran Cuffe off his meds now. Wants to ban short haul flights.

They really wont be happy until we are all back in mud huts eating organic turnip

FrancieBrady

Podge_irl wrote: »

Does it work both ways?

What do you mean?

LawBoy2018

I'd say Thomas Byrne is nicely freaked today... lol

Podge_irl

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What do you mean?

Can they ignore what most people would consider an obvious mandate to call a vote

Truthvader wrote: »

Not sure you're right

Scotland = North sea oil, kilts, ships and sheep etc

Northern Ireland =dead soldiers and an endless money pit - plus having to listen to the likes of Arlene, Gerry, Michelle, Nigel and the crew endlessly whinging

I'd say they would sink the entire province under the sea if they could

There is no way a border poll in NI doesn't ramp up the demands for one in Scotland to unignorable levels though. Again, I don't think the British govt care about NI one bit, I do think they care about the concept of losing part of their country.

Anyway, we are veering wildly off topic. I don't think it is within any Irish govt's purview to do much about a UI and any criticism of FF for nor committing to a border poll is misguided (and I am no lover of FF).

FrancieBrady

Podge_irl wrote: »

Can they ignore what most people would consider an obvious mandate to call a vote

Absolutely.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I posted it before and if you aren't aware of it, you shouldn't really be talking about the subject, because you know not what you say.



https://judiciaryni.uk/sites/judiciary/files/decisions/McCord%27s%20%28Raymond%29%20Application..pdf

OK, so the SoS has more leeway on when to call a poll. That proves, what exactly and how does that speed up a UI?

markodaly

The_Brood wrote: »

A few weeks in and already it looks like this new government may be the worst in Irish history.

Jaysus, not even a 10 days in power and we have this stuff.

Well, do keep an open mind anyway.

James Brown

Good man Leo and good man Pearse.

If banks seek to make profit from giving people a break on their mortgages during the Covid-19 pandemic it would be viewed as a serious scandal, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has told the Dáil.

He said he had warned the banks at a meeting in May that it would not be acceptable for them to make money from charging interest when mortgage holders were granted a break on their home loans.

He said he told the banks at the meeting that if financial institutions made "additional profit out of this... that I would see this as serious as the scandal of the tracker mortgages and we would come down on them like a tonne of bricks".

Mr Varadkar was speaking in the Dáil in response to Sinn Féin Deputy Leader Pearse Doherty who raised the issue of additional interest being charged on mortgage holders who have availed of the payment break.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0709/1152321-banks/

Opposition raising a concern with government and government pledging to tackle it.
There we go now.

Oh, well he hopes the banks won't...

The Tánaiste said he felt the cost should come out of the banks' profits, but said they do not have profits this year, he did not think it should be paid by tax payers or mortgage holders.

He said he was very blunt and clear with the banks and that as a consequence of covering these breaks, they should not look for a profit.

The Tánaiste said "the fundamental issue is whether the Banks will make a profit out of this and that is not acceptable".

dundalkfc10

Bowie wrote: »

Good man Leo and good man Pearse.



Opposition raising a concern with government and government pledging to tackle it.
There we go now.

Oh, well he hopes the banks won't...

Are you surprised?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

OK, so the SoS has more leeway on when to call a poll. That proves, what exactly and how does that speed up a UI?

That proves you are wrong.
The SoS couls decide in the morning if it is politically expedient.

Galwayguy35

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I'd say Thomas Byrne is nicely freaked today... lol

Yer man must have his ducks in a row when he came on twitter saying Byrne was a liar, bit of an odd thing to just make up if there is no truth to it.

James Brown

Public in-fighting, week two.

James Brown

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Are you surprised?

I was hopeful.
If he's agreeing it's not on and using terminology like coming down on the banks 'like a tonne of bricks', you would think he might use some form of strong arming attempt on the banks, already engaging in this by all accounts. Saying it's terrible and doing nothing is a very Kenny era government thing but Varadkar was always best at criticising others than he was doing his own job.

Brendan Bendar

Is poor Pat back on the road yet?

RandomViewer

Truthvader wrote: »

Not sure you're right

Scotland = North sea oil, kilts, ships and sheep etc

Northern Ireland =dead soldiers and an endless money pit - plus having to listen to the likes of Arlene, Gerry, Michelle, Nigel and the crew endlessly whinging

I'd say they would sink the entire province under the sea if they could

Dead soldiers mean nothing to them, look how many they lost in Helmond. The north was a handy training ground for an expected European war, crowd control, infiltration, testing new weapons on the population. Then after the first Iraq war it became clear that the next big war would be in the desert It's usefulness waned

dundalkfc10

https://twitter.com/paulcolgan/status/1281261079281221632?s=19

Brendan Bendar

Was the Northern Bank at that meeting.?

dundalkfc10

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Was the Northern Bank at that meeting.?

Is that really your answer to that?

Says it all really