FF/FG/Green Next Government

McMurphy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Just a quick peek at this thread. Yeah, nothing of substance being discussed, just the same few people bringing up the same irrelevancies over and over and over.

Feel free to weigh in with something you deem to be of relevant substance so, like anytime you feel like it.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Yesterday's (and this morning's) newspapers.

”.

Any chance you could withdraw the "rubbish" accusations?



Edited to paste a Google search, which you obviously didn't bother with.


https://www.google.ie/search?safe=off&sxsrf=ALeKk01hYU3HxHtMw4LBrY8SbxDJ0YFi6Q%3A1594628793129&source=hp&ei=uRoMX4eiBdaJ1fAPm_WliA8&q=garda+pursued+barry+cowen+after+turning+away+from+checkpoint&oq=garda+pursued+barry+cowen+after+turning+away+from+checkpoint&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADOgcIIxDqAhAnOgQIIxAnOgsIABCxAxCDARCRAjoFCAAQkQI6BQgAELEDOggIABCxAxCDAToCCC46CAgAELEDEJECOggILhCxAxCDAToHCAAQFBCHAjoCCAA6BAguEAo6BAgAEAo6BggAEBYQHjoFCCEQoAE6BQgAEM0COgQIIRAVOggIIRAWEB0QHjoHCCEQChCgAToECB4QClCZD1i7zwFggdIBaAlwAHgAgAF4iAGMK5IBBTU2LjEwmAEAoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

Yes,That I didn't see,apologies tendered
That is a serious offence though detailing a uturn and a chase
It brings into sharp focus what I was saying yesterday as to why that more serious offence wasn't prosecuted

The times better have that in a report in front of them
If its incorrect, it will be removed
That does not mean a garda lied,it can be explained as a simple volume mistake

Snow Garden

Usually FFG would try and get this Cowen story to the 3 month summer recess and then let it die but there summer recess will be much shorter this year.

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes,That I didn't see,apologies tendered
That is a serious offence though detailing a uturn and a chase
It brings into sharp focus what I was saying yesterday as to why that more serious offence wasn't prosecuted

The times better have that in a report in front of them
If its incorrect, it will be removed
That does not mean a garda lied,it can be explained as a simple volume mistake

I don't believe there's any offence in turning away from a checkpoint, it would be impossible to prove you intentionally did so.

It would be a serious offence to purposely stop when requested by a Garda to do so, in Cowens case the optics are very, very bad.

I cannot see how he will last beyond this weekend at this stage, but you never know.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

I don't believe there's any offence in turning away from a checkpoint, it would be impossible to prove you intentionally did so.

It would be a serious offence to purposely stop when requested by a Garda to do so, in Cowens case the optics are very, very bad.

I cannot see how he will last beyond this weekend at this stage, but you never know.

It all depends on the facts
Not the speculation
If he succeeds in getting the record on pulse changed,or proves the times wrong,I'd expect he'll last untill December 22

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

It all depends on the facts
Not the speculation
If he succeeds in getting the record on pulse changed,or proves the times wrong,I'd expect he'll last untill December 22

If he turned away from a Garda checkpoint, had to be pursued in order for him to be stopped, and failed a breathalyser test, while on a learners license, I can't see why the Gards would change their records.

Cowen is specifically saying he didn't evade or attempt to evade their checkpoint, no mention on whether he did or did not turn away from it though.

Cowen can say he didn't purposely evade the checkpoint and it was purely coincidental that he happened to be both over the limit and on a learner license when the guards pursued him and forced him to stop I suppose.

Optics are very very bad.

TheCitizen

How come Catherine Martin is Minister for a pile of stuff with when there was Calleary and O'Callaghan and others moaning about not getting Minister gigs? I know they'd normally put Arts and Culture and the Gaeltacht together but they've also thrown in Sport and Media and Tourism.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Optics are very very bad.

Yes if this was happening in the United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, he'd have resigned already

TheCitizen

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes if this was happening in the United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, he'd have resigned already

It used to be like that in the UK but now they've turned into Trump wanabeees and they just brazen it out. Dominic Cummings a prime example. In Northern Ireland Snarlene did the same thing when caught out red handed with that renewable energry scam, just brazened it out. So, that's not the case at all.

Bannasidhe

TheCitizen wrote: »

How come Catherine Martin is Minister for a pile of stuff with when there was Calleary and O'Callaghan and others moaning about not getting Minister gigs? I know they'd normally put Arts and Culture and the Gaeltacht together but they've also thrown in Sport and Media and Tourism.

Constitution states max number of Ministers is 15.
There are more than 15 'depts' so lumping them together under one minister is common.
Martin's lump seems particularly lumpy to me.

Floppybits

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Constitution states max number of Ministers is 15.
There are more than 15 'depts' so lumping them together under one minister is common.
Martin's lump seems particularly lumpy to me.

Minster for the Miscellaneous.

On the Cowen I'd say he thought the apology in the Dail would have been enough to kill this story but now that it is still rumbling on would make him nervous.

What does it mean that he tried to evade the checkpoint? Surely he wasn't in a queue of traffic at the checkpoint and then he tried to do a U-turn to go back the way he came, if this is the case then it looks bad for him but also the Gardai have questions to answer as to why they didn't charge him for evading the checkpoint?

Michael Martin must be pulling the rest of his hair out having to deal with this and the other crap in his party in his first couple of weeks as Taoiseach. I think that says alot about how Martins leadership is seen in FF.

McMurphy

Floppybits wrote: »

Minster for the Miscellaneous.

On the Cowen I'd say he thought the apology in the Dail would have been enough to kill this story but now that it is still rumbling on would make him nervous.

What does it mean that he tried to evade the checkpoint? Surely he wasn't in a queue of traffic at the checkpoint and then he tried to do a U-turn to go back the way he came, if this is the case then it looks bad for him but also the Gardai have questions to answer as to why they didn't charge him for evading the checkpoint?

Michael Martin must be pulling the rest of his hair out having to deal with this and the other crap in his party in his first couple of weeks as Taoiseach. I think that says alot about how Martins leadership is seen in FF.

It's not an offence to turn away from a checkpoint. It's an offence to fail/refuse to stop when requested by the Gards, but in Cowens case, it's alleged he tried to turn away before the Gards had a chance to request him to stop.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

It's not an offence to turn away from a checkpoint. It's an offence to fail/refuse to stop when requested by the Gards, but in Cowens care, he tried to turn away before the Gards had a chance to request him to stop.

We don't know this

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

We don't know this

We do it's been covered in both this and the other thread that you are also posting in. Just this morning you said you didn't know the guards had to pursue him in order for them to stop him. This has been covered already and now you want to go back over old ground.

Cowen is saying he didn't evade the checkpoint, he's not saying he didn't turn away from one.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

We do it's been covered in both this and the other thread that you are also posting in. Just this morning you said you didn't know the guards had to pursue him in order for them to stop him. This has been covered already and now you want to go back over old ground.

Cowen is saying he didn't evade the checkpoint, he's not saying he didn't turn away from one.

But we do not know any of that,with respect
We only know what the times alleges correct?

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

But we do not know any of that,with respect
We only know what the times alleges correct?

We know what the times allege, and we know what Barry Cowen said about what they allege, in his statement Cowen confirms that the Garda report on him states that he turned away from the checkpoint, Cowen is using a "not on purpose" defence it would seem.

I did not evade, or attempt to evade, a Garda. Such an act would constitute a serious criminal offence and I was not charged with such an offence. On being informed of its existence I sought a copy of this incorrect record and am taking steps under the Data Protection Act to have it corrected.

Be interesting if the Garda have actual evidence of him turning away from the checkpoint. It's the proving he did so intentionally is where things get tricky/impossible to prove.

However, in saying that if he turned away and had to be pursued in order for the Gards to stop him, they would be insane to alter their records imo.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Yes, I noticed the banshee said that pressure was being put on the Opposition to get answers, not that they were going after this themselves.
Interesting thought there, who's putting on the pressure?

That's the opposition's job, shining a light on issues government ministers would rather faded away.
The fact Humphreys is saying nothing and it's not getting the coverage is why we need public representatives asking questions.
Whatever about agenda, if theres nothing to answer for Humphreys can put it to bed.
The whistleblower will be investigated and we should see those findings soon enough.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

We know what the times allege, and we know what Barry Cowen said about what they allege, in his statement Cowen confirms that the Garda report on him states that he turned away from the checkpoint, Cowen is using a "not on purpose" defence it would seem.

I did not evade, or attempt to evade, a Garda. Such an act would constitute a serious criminal offence and I was not charged with such an offence. On being informed of its existence I sought a copy of this incorrect record and am taking steps under the Data Protection Act to have it corrected.

Where in that statement does Cowen confirm either whats on pulse or what the Times alleges
Obviously if its true, big issues
If he succeeds in changing the pulse account,then nothing untoward can be stated as fact as having happened at all

So again at this stage it's just an allegation and I'd advise not stating it as a fact (unless you want to be in court)

McMurphy

Obviously I don't want to find myself in court, and doubt very much that I would do so if I'm merely commenting on the allegations the times made, and statements Barry made.

The Times allege that Barry had to be pursued by the Gards after turning away from a checkpoint.

Barry makes a statement that he did not purposely evade the checkpoint, in doing so that would be a criminal offence (though I don't think it is, and he's talking nonsense), carefully worded. Barry's not saying he didn't turn away from the checkpoint, or denying that he was forced to stop after being pursued by the Gards for turning away.

I note this morning though, that someone has obviously told him to shut up and say nothing more on the subject, and perhaps stop embarrassing himself and his party.


https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1282637365408923650?s=09

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Obviously I don't want to find myself in court, and doubt very much that I would do so if I'm merely commenting on the allegations the times made, and statements Barry made.

The Times allege that Barry had to be pursued by the Gards after turning away from a checkpoint.

Barry makes a statement that he did not purposely evade the checkpoint, in doing so that would be a criminal offence (though I don't think it is, and he's talking nonsense), carefully worded. Barry's not saying he didn't turn away from the checkpoint, or denying that he was forced to stop after being pursued by the Gards for turning away.

I note this morning though, that someone has obviously told him to shut up and say nothing more on the subject, and perhaps stop embarrassing himself and his party.


https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1282637365408923650?s=09

You stated in the last hour or so as fact in 2 posts that I replied to,that he tried to turn away
That is only alleged, its not a proven fact at the moment

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

You stated in the last hour or so as fact in 2 posts that I replied to,that he tried to turn away
That is only alleged, its not a proven fact at the moment

I was commenting on the what was reported on the times website and hard copies, and Barry's own statements.

If he wishes to dispute what the Times report says he knows what he has to do, I however am entitled to pass comment on the article and what it alleges Barry did and didn't do on the night in question.

I will edit my posts accordingly.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

I was commenting on the what was reported on the times website and hard copies, and Barry's own statements.

If he wishes to dispute what the Times report says he knows what he has to do, I however am entitled to pass comment on the article and what it alleges Barry did and didn't do on the night in question.

I will edit my posts accordingly.

You stated what was in the times as fact
You're entitled to take that risk I suppose
But you are not immune here from being asked to remove it and of course whats in the Times at this stage is an allegation not a proven fact

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

You stated what was in the times as fact
You're entitled to take that risk I suppose
But you are not immune here from being asked to remove it and of course whats in the Times at this stage is an allegation not a proven fact

I forgot to prefix it with the word alleged in one single post. I have since rectified that. Sue me. :cool:

McMurphy

So on the same day that Barry Cowen publicly challenges and disputes an official Garda report about him, the Gardai official Twitter account tweets this.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1282371842527854606?s=19


What n amazing coincidence.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

So on the same day that Barry Cowen publicly challenges and disputes an official Garda report about him, the Gardai official Twitter account tweets this.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1282371842527854606?s=19


What n amazing coincidence.

Not really,I had a look through July and June,they tweet about these regularly
I doubt,in fact I'm certain, in my own mind, that they did not post that as a dig at Cowen

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

Not really,I had a look through July and June,they tweet about these regularly
I doubt,in fact I'm certain, in my own mind, that they did not post that as a dig at Cowen

So for the record you read tweets regularly and are therefore a user of the social media platform Twitter. Just noting it.

Snow Garden

To my knowledge Cowen is not very liked within the Dail or within FF. I think his days are numbered as a minister.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

So for the record you read tweets regularly and are therefore a user of the social media platform Twitter. Just noting it.

Say what?

Twitter is a cesspool of Shinnerbots and racists, but few people can avoid it completely.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Say what?

Twitter is a cesspool of Shinnerbots and racists, but few people can avoid it completely.

Hahahaha why are you following Sinn Fein people on twitter since you hate everything about them and regularly talk down to anyone who supports the party

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

So for the record you read tweets regularly and are therefore a user of the social media platform Twitter. Just noting it.

Nope,i have a science based account on twitter and the app on my phone for that purpose
Tapping on a twitter link on boards opens the app,but I actually follow around a 100 people nearly all science based including Garda anyway
But yes I am one of the 29% in Ireland with a twitter account