FF/FG/Green Next Government

CrankyHaus

Snow Garden wrote: »

You get the strong feeling that FFG are going to make it so easy for SF, SDs, Labour, Independents to ridicule them for the next few years.
It will be difficult for FFG to run a tight ship knowing all the divisions and poor politicians within the 2 parties (soon hopefully 1 party).

When they announced the Government I actually thought it wasn't too bad. As a result of the coalition there was mainly only space for the better candidates from each party to get positions, rather than the mouthbreathing place holders you'd get in a single party Government.

The timing of the Cowen, Humphrys and O'Gorman stuff coming out suggested people had the info saved up for the right moment. I'd judge the parties more on how they handle it. So far FF badly, Greens well and FG it remains to be seen.

Scoondal

3 weeks ... not going well is it ?
A minister sacked.
A minister (for children) with questions to answer.
Varadkar "confirmed" a green list of countries published by 9 July. Did not happen.
Some pubs closed until 10 August, others remain open if you eat !
The country is laughable ... and that is what I am doing on my deck chair ... laughing at Ireland.

NovemberWren

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cowen is now a nobody.

Do you not think MM had to clarify his abrupt change of heart yesterday? It was a bit weird non?

He's a wee bit dithery methinks.

The entire episode seems artificial to me. Agreed on beforehand, fabricated and theatrically played out. It is sure to be watched by the young votes (and help car sales people)?

These FF are the nation's 'supremacists' [they wish], at long last, now; and are trying to present to the younger votes, some kind of reckless swagger now, as opposed to the, cute, impecunious course of their party for the last 80! years. D.Calleary was just.... waiting in the wings. Voila!

ugh

Bishop of hope

NovemberWren wrote: »

The entire episode seems artificial to me. Agreed on beforehand, fabricated and theatrically played out. It is sure to be watched by the young votes (and help car sales people)?

These FF are the nation's 'supremacists' [they wish], at long last, now; and are trying to present to the younger votes, some kind of reckless swagger now, as opposed to the, cute, impecunious course of their party for the last 80! years. D.Calleary was just.... waiting in the wings. Voila!

ugh

So you think FF staged the sacking of Cowen?
There's uproar in the party over it.
They're imploding, FF are washed up as they are.
They should have long gotten rid of MM and had a leader well removed form the Ahearn/Cowen era.
Even a successful govt stint will do them feck all good now, it will serve FG and the Greens better.
Three weeks in govt, a TD writing letters of commendation for suspected criminals and drug dealers and a new minister sacked, new FF my arse.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So you think FF staged the sacking of Cowen?
There's uproar in the party over it.
They're imploding, FF are washed up as they are.
They should have long gotten rid of MM and had a leader well removed form the Ahearn/Cowen era.
Even a successful govt stint will do them feck all good now, it will serve FG and the Greens better.
Three weeks in govt, a TD writing letters of commendation for suspected criminals and drug dealers and a new minister sacked, new FF my arse.

FG and the Greens both voted against Cowen having to answer questions in the Dáil. They are a disgrace too

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FG and the Greens both voted against Cowen having to answer questions in the Dáil. They are a disgrace too

Cowen wasn't going to answer questions, nó matter what happened.
They were giving him a chance to do so voluntarily if he wished himself, but not going to be part of a kangaroo court which hadn't the power to compel him to do so anyway.
Action was taken internally to deal with the matter, he was sacked.
For all the hoo Haa its been dealt with.
FF are in dissaray internally, but govt wise there's nothing adverse to report as yet.
That may well change.
Its bad optics publically but as long as the govt business keeps going well then it's of little consequence as to how the govt will function.
Calleary is a popular replacement with the farmers too it seems.

Truthvader

Edgware wrote: »

If it was Sinn Fein he would have been suspended immediately, reinstated after six months and nominated for the Presidency

Or found on a border road

Snow Garden

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So you think FF staged the sacking of Cowen?
There's uproar in the party over it.

I talked to a FF councillor yesterday evening and he was quietly pleased despite the damage to the party. It seems Cowen is not a popular figure in FF. And he doesn't have many friends in the rest of the Dail. More news to come out about Cowen too.

jmayo

CrankyHaus wrote: »

When they announced the Government I actually thought it wasn't too bad. As a result of the coalition there was mainly only space for the better candidates from each party to get positions, rather than the mouthbreathing place holders you'd get in a single party Government.

Obviously you are not from the Western seaboard bar maybe Kerry. :rolleyes:
That was a huge point for anyone West of the Shannon, up as far as Donegal and down as far as Limerick.
Yeah yeah we know all mullarkey about national politicians, but it is cr** as everyone knows a minister will indeed try push for stuff for their constituency and to a degree their region.
It is just a fact of life in Ireland.
It is also a statement of intent.

The cabinet was in no way the best candidates and I am not talking about Calleary.
Speaking of Calleary the initial job given to him was just plain stupidity and disgraceful treatment of a deputy leader.
A deputy leader is either the next most popular in the party having lost a close leadership contest ala Coveney and thus there to keep a major section of the party happy or is a staunch ally of the leader and there to protect his ass ala Brian Lenihan in the 80s.

Back to best candidates, care to explain why Justice was given to that eejit from Meath that has no legal experience, a few years work experience in total in a bank, in preference to O'Callaghan ?
Then Martin gave education to a teacher that has been a TD for a few weeks?
Best candidates my ass.

markodaly

jmayo wrote: »

Back to best candidates, care to explain why Justice was given to that eejit from Meath that has no legal experience, a few years work experience in total in a bank, in preference to O'Callaghan ?
Then Martin gave education to a teacher that has been a TD for a few weeks?
Best candidates my ass.

Helen McEntee is, by all means, a very capable politician and Minister last time out. What exactly about her do you not like? Is it that she is a woman, as it seems you like to call them names.

TheCitizen

Edgware wrote: »

If it was Sinn Fein he would have been suspended immediately, reinstated after six months and nominated for the Presidency

It won’t be the end of Barry Cowen either. He will keep his seat and IF FF are in government next time out (that’s the bigger IF) he will be a Minister. Have you forgotten that Charlie Haughey was sacked in the early 70’s and ended up leader of FF by 1979.

Michael Martin seems to have forgotten that FF at one time called themselves the Republican Party.

Truthvader

TheCitizen wrote: »

It won’t be the end of Barry Cowen either. He will keep his seat and IF FF are in government next time out (that’s the bigger IF) he will be a Minister. Have you forgotten that Charlie Haughey was sacked in the early 70’s and ended up leader of FF by 1979.

Michael Martin seems to have forgotten that FF at one time called themselves the Republican Party.

Dunno can't see Cowen coming back form this. Even if someone wanted to bring him back they would immediately have to deal with the same questions Barry won't answer now. At best they might wait for the dust to settle, a new media distraction of some kind and appoint him to some quango to stop him annoying them.

Sinn Fein could be on the phone too. By their standards he would be a "respectable" politician to front for them. Though the last experiment with Chris Andrews didn't go too well and they have to keep him out of sight in the attic now

TheCitizen

Truthvader wrote: »

Dunno can't see Cowen coming back form this. Even if someone wanted to bring him back they would immediately have to deal with the same questions Barry won't answer now. At best they might wait for the dust to settle, a new media distraction of some kind and appoint him to some quango to stop him annoying them.

Sinn Fein could be on the phone too. By their standards he would be a "respectable" politician to front for them. Though the last experiment with Chris Andrews didn't go too well and they have to keep him out of sight in the attic now

Cowen said he wouldn’t answer on legal advice. Once he said that he couldn’t go on the record in the Dáil. Martin was then asking him to do something that he couldn’t do. Martin could have kicked for touch on this and said we will deal with this in the process. Martin panicked. I’m not impressed with him as a leader at all, he should have stood by his man up to the point where he may have had to sack him.

As for your second paragraph that’s just you attacking SF as you always do. Nobody cares about your opinion of SF, we already know what you think of them blah blah blah. You’ll never vote for them anyway being a blueshirt.

In the FF ranks though are different they would be worried about losing more support to SF. FF getting into bed with the blueshirts, they’re going to come out with flees. SF in a great position to gobble up lapsed FF support and take younger voters support who may have been disposed to FF in the past.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So you think FF staged the sacking of Cowen?
There's uproar in the party over it.
They're imploding, FF are washed up as they are.
They should have long gotten rid of MM and had a leader well removed form the Ahearn/Cowen era.
Even a successful govt stint will do them feck all good now, it will serve FG and the Greens better.
Three weeks in govt, a TD writing letters of commendation for suspected criminals and drug dealers and a new minister sacked, new FF my arse.

Also Heather Humphreys 'passing' a letter for a convicted criminal up on more of the same charges.

We'd Willie O'Dea lie in court. Cowen will be back, it's FF after all.

Truthvader

TheCitizen wrote: »

Cowen said he wouldn’t answer on legal advice. Once he said that he couldn’t go on the record in the Dáil. Martin was then asking him to do something that he couldn’t do. Martin could have kicked for touch on this and said we will deal with this in the process. Martin panicked. I’m not impressed with him as a leader at all, he should have stood by his man up to the point where he may have had to sack him.

As for your second paragraph that’s just you attacking SF as you always do. Nobody cares about your opinion of SF, we already know what you think of them blah blah blah. You’ll never vote for them anyway being a blueshirt.

In the FF ranks though are different they would be worried about losing more support to SF. FF getting into bed with the blueshirts, they’re going to come out with flees. SF in a great position to gobble up lapsed FF support and take younger voters support who may have been disposed to FF in the past.

Don't vote for criminals, nothing to do with shirt colour.

Actually agree that a certain kind of Fianna Failer would have little problem moving to Sinn Fein. And agree that FF know this and are rightly concerned

TheCitizen

Truthvader wrote: »

Don't vote for criminals, nothing to do with shirt colour.

Is that right. And I suppose no FG member has never done anything illegal ever. You do recall from your history books just what a shower of shíts the blueshirts were and how closely they were linked to Fine Gael?

Truthvader wrote: »

Actually agree that a certain kind of Fianna Failer would have little problem moving to Sinn Fein. And agree that FF know this and are rightly concerned

"A certain kind of Fianna Failer", you mean a Republican. Yep FFers ought to be worried alright but it's because of the mistake that their leader Michael Martin has made by getting into bed with the blueshirts.

"A certain kind of Fianna Failer" indeed. Any FFer looking in will do well to remeber and recall just what a certain kind of FGer thinks of them.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Don't vote for criminals, nothing to do with shirt colour.

Actually agree that a certain kind of Fianna Failer would have little problem moving to Sinn Fein. And agree that FF know this and are rightly concerned

SF haven't a patch on FF nor FG for that kind of behaviour. Granted we'll need see SF in government, (the Westminister controlled 'power sharing' with the DUP is not comparable) for a comparison but the FF/FG spin that dem others I'd be worse has lost it's luster after decades of sweet deal cronyism, wastes of tax payer millions, recession, austerity, fraud and criminality.
I'd like to find out is it's possible to be worse at this stage be it the SD's, PBP or SF.

JohnnyFlash

Bowie wrote: »

SF haven't a patch on FF nor FG for that kind of behaviour. Granted we'll need see SF in government, (the Westminister controlled 'power sharing' with the DUP is not comparable) for a comparison but the FF/FG spin that dem others I'd be worse has lost it's luster after decades of sweet deal cronyism, wastes of tax payer millions, recession, austerity, fraud and criminality.
I'd like to find out is it's possible to be worse at this stage be it the SD's, PBP or SF.

You'd think we lived in a banana republic the way you go on about the place.

I think Máirtín Ó Muilleoir contacting extremely 'good republican' Ted Howell to get advice on the cash for ash debacle shows that SF aren't exactly above some 'funny business' when it suits them.

Or owning 50 properties on the island.

A whale only gets harpooned when it comes up to blow.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You'd think we lived in a banana republic the way you go on about the place.

I think Máirtín Ó Muilleoir contacting extremely 'good republican' Ted Howell to get advice on the cash for ash debacle shows that SF aren't exactly above some 'funny business' when it suits them.

Or owning 50 properties on the island.

A whale only gets harpooned when it comes up to blow.

Point to were i'm wrong JF.

Deflection blah blah blah...what SF do or don't do does not cancel out what FF/FG are.

Truthvader

Bowie wrote: »

SF haven't a patch on FF nor FG for that kind of behaviour. Granted we'll need see SF in government, (the Westminister controlled 'power sharing' with the DUP is not comparable) for a comparison but the FF/FG spin that dem others I'd be worse has lost it's luster after decades of sweet deal cronyism, wastes of tax payer millions, recession, austerity, fraud and criminality.
I'd like to find out is it's possible to be worse at this stage be it the SD's, PBP or SF.

Always the same vague drivel but never a shred of evidence.

Fraud and crime are at the core of Sinn Fein while recession and austerity are not policies but economic realities. Only in the mad mad world of Sinn Fein is it possible just to vote for money and fix everything forever. Grow up FFS

TheCitizen

Truthvader wrote: »

Always the same vague drivel but never a shred of evidence.

Fraud and crime are at the core of Sinn Fein while recession and austerity are not policies but economic realities. Only in the mad mad world of Sinn Fein is it possible just to vote for money and fix everything forever. Grow up FFS

Accept insularity and failure to take on the vested interests and their cronies and reform the health service.

Accept failure and do likewise and fail to tackle the housing issues.

Accept these and other failures like the Irish water debacle etc. and Vote Fine Gael.

TheCitizen

Snow Garden wrote: »

I talked to a FF councillor yesterday evening and he was quietly pleased despite the damage to the party. It seems Cowen is not a popular figure in FF. And he doesn't have many friends in the rest of the Dail. More news to come out about Cowen too.

Really? Well why was he appointed Minister in the first place then at a time when other high profile FFers were pissed off cos they were overlooked.

Cowen getting thrown under the bus by FG Lite leader Micheál.

Truthvader

TheCitizen wrote: »

Accept insularity and failure to take on the vested interests and their cronies and reform the health service.

Accept failure and do likewise and fail to tackle the housing issues.

Accept these and other failures like the Irish water debacle etc. and Vote Fine Gael.

OK some real points - not all.

1. Need to know what insularity and vested interests you refer to and what you would like any government to actually do

2. Housing issues. I assume you want the government to enter the market and build free houses or at least houses below the market rate. This requires money. Money is derived from taxes. So assume you are willing to pay more taxes yourself or alternatively want other people to be taxed to pay for it.

3. Irish Water is a mess no doubt. Either you think water should be paid for by someone else in which case the Sinn Fein / PBP campaign to sabotage the Irish Water was justified and you are delighted with the resultant mess or you are not happy and should be blaming Sinn Fein PBP for the waste.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Always the same vague drivel but never a shred of evidence.

You are being disingenuous. Nothing vague about it. And what's this 'always' lark? FF/FG have engaged in all of the above. These are well documented facts.
Every time that claim is made it's backed up. Google is your friend. If you'd no idea about the records and characters of FF/FG you should really not be posting about them IMO.

Truthvader wrote: »

Fraud and crime are at the core of Sinn Fein while recession and austerity are not policies but economic realities. Only in the mad mad world of Sinn Fein is it possible just to vote for money and fix everything forever. Grow up FFS

FF/FG's record in office has absolutely no bearing on Sinn Fein however hard you may try.
The last crash we had ended up in a quango called IW and Reilly set himself up with some nice clinics and later Varadkar set himself up with a nice spin unit. So don't play so naive. Even when we need go into generational debt these lads are spending rings around them but when it comes to giving the tax payer a dig out it's 'magic money tree' talk.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

OK some real points - not all.

1. Need to know what insularity and vested interests you refer to and what you would like any government to actually do

2. Housing issues. I assume you want the government to enter the market and build free houses or at least houses below the market rate. This requires money. Money is derived from taxes. So assume you are willing to pay more taxes yourself or alternatively want other people to be taxed to pay for it.

3. Irish Water is a mess no doubt. Either you think water should be paid for by someone else in which case the Sinn Fein / PBP campaign to sabotage the Irish Water was justified and you are delighted with the resultant mess or you are not happy and should be blaming Sinn Fein PBP for the waste.

You know we take out 25 year leases to house the exact same people right?

A personal driver put on the board. The metering deal with Siteserv was us selling the company at a loss and then awarding it a state contract, although the order in which that happened is up for debate. That sweet deal is currently under investigation.

Cronyism, although usually very costly is not always illegal.

Bannasidhe

Truthvader wrote: »

2. Housing issues. I assume you want the government to enter the market and build free houses or at least houses below the market rate. This requires money. Money is derived from taxes. So assume you are willing to pay more taxes yourself or alternatively want other people to be taxed to pay for it.

This kind of money? The kind being paid to private landlords via HAP?
€612m since 2014

The cost of the scheme has “increased significantly” since its introduction in 2014, when €400,000 was spent, to an expected €423 million for 2019. Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe announced an additional €80 million for the scheme in Budget 2020.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-has-paid-landlords-612m-under-hap-tenant-scheme-1.4044451

James Brown

Bannasidhe wrote: »

This kind of money? The kind being paid to private landlords via HAP?
€612m since 2014

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-has-paid-landlords-612m-under-hap-tenant-scheme-1.4044451

I guess 'Magic money tree' depends on who's getting it.

TheCitizen

Truthvader wrote: »

OK some real points - not all.

1. Need to know what insularity and vested interests you refer to and what you would like any government to actually do

The unions, the health insurance companies, the consultants. FG are weak on the desire and need for a single tiered health service. They're happy for people to pay out for private healthcare. They talk about slaintecare and before they talked about a Universal Health Insurance where everyone pays a bit into a system and are stakeholders in the system and the funds are targeted at improving the health service. FG though, when push comes to shove, don't have the stomach for the fight necessary to bring about real reform in the health service.

Truthvader wrote: »

2. Housing issues. I assume you want the government to enter the market and build free houses or at least houses below the market rate. This requires money. Money is derived from taxes. So assume you are willing to pay more taxes yourself or alternatively want other people to be taxed to pay for it.

I would be willing to pay more taxes if housing and health could be targeted with said taxes, but it's not just a money issue, it needs political will as well and FG don't really have that political will as evidenced by the last 9 years of them in office. It's why they lost the election (as they put it themselves) remember.

Truthvader wrote: »

3. Irish Water is a mess no doubt. Either you think water should be paid for by someone else in which case the Sinn Fein / PBP campaign to sabotage the Irish Water was justified and you are delighted with the resultant mess or you are not happy and should be blaming Sinn Fein PBP for the waste.

Personally I have no problem with water charges so long as it's efficiently run. FG made a mess of it though and handed control to one of Denis O'Brien's companies in another old pals act who proceeded to make a dog's bollocks out of setting up and implementing water charges.

They needed to get the public on board with the project and get their support by running it properly. FG made an arse of it. Was entirely FG's fault. Pathetic that you're trying to blame others.

jmayo

markodaly wrote: »

Helen McEntee is, by all means, a very capable politician and Minister last time out. What exactly about her do you not like? Is it that she is a woman, as it seems you like to call them names.

Ah yes lets try and make this about gender.
Well i suppose since the greens are making it about sexual preferences why not. :rolleyes:

O'Callaghan has law degrees and law qualifications, has practiced as a barrister even if part of the time was spent representing his party colleagues in court. :rolleyes:

On the other hand McEntee has ....

She was a junior minister last time out both in Dept of Health and Foreign Affairs, and was usually seen traipsing after Simon either in UK or in Europe.

And yes I don't agree with promoting someone just because what they have or have not between their legs, no more than what they do with it.

And don't worry yourself, I call the male politician gobshytes names as well.

RandomViewer

FG facilated the expansion of Dublin drug dealing families into rural Ireland, dealers with 20 or 30 convictions getting probation, one dealer caught red handed with 75k of cannabis getting off free.