FF/FG/Green Next Government

efanton

ELM327 wrote: »

This is an important point to note. The 13bn was to be redistributed and Ireland would have gotten a portion.


People (mostly on the left/dole) complain about the 13bn, yet fail to realise that each year 20bn (the DSP budget) goes to support their lifestyle choice

The vast majority of the DSP's budget goes nowhere near the unemployed.
You could hardly call being of a pensionable age, or being disabled a lifestyle choice now could you?

No mention of the tax and Vat avoidance I see which does add up to many times more than is paid out to those that abuse the social welfare system.

in 2018 €1.938 billion of VAT owed was not collected. Under the previous FG government the percentage of VAT uncollected or illegally avoided, (the so called VAT gap), steadily increased.

While tax avoidance is a legal if not morally corrupt enterprise, tax evasion is not. Literally billions are lost to the state each year in tax evasion.


For the few that are gaming the social welfare system, there are equally as many, if not more, gaming the tax system.
What is lost to those that choose to remain unemployed and live on social welfare is small potatoes compared to what is lost by deliberate VAT and tax evasion.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/vat-gap-full-report-2019_en.pdf

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/it-s-a-matter-of-fairness-squeezing-more-tax-from-multinationals-1.4299357

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/2019-taxation-papers-76.pdf

As for the 13 billion Apple money, very few believed that it would have gone solely to Ireland. It is clearly understood by ALL political parties that if the EU had decided that money was owed, it would have to have been distributed across all EU countries where Apple sold products.
But a small fraction of €13 billion would still add up to a very sizeable sum of money.

RandomViewer

ELM327 wrote: »

Please point to where I did?
I posted "DSP Budget of 20bn to support their lifestyle choice".
Which is true. Hap, dole, childrens allowance.

Childrens allowance is universal benefit, even billionaires qualify, why the lies?

Richard Hillman

We owe the EU 15.7bn

Truthvader

Bowie wrote: »

No more than we have been.

It's a choice to continue paying for 25 year leases, buying houses, renting hotels to use as social housing.as we currently do.
Or
Building social and affordable housing to rent or sell.
You know this though right?

How is paying for 25 year leased D4 or whatever apartments less 'free' than state owned rentals?

Christ do you have anything else to say. On and on forever about the 25 years leases. We all lnow your position. The people who know what you are talking about have responded. Enough

Eric Cartman

Bowie wrote: »

Would love to see low paid workers, frontline staff and small businesses get a dig out but I expect some bull**** quango or other in the next 12 months should the government last.
My money is on a kind of Covid NAMA type thing. Get in a private company to oversee who gets what etc.

Almost certainly , KPMG or someone appointed And the end conclusion is companies already getting state supports get more, the pubs and hotels get a slush fund to keep the yanks rolling in the door and businesses serving irish people / small businesses get absolutely nothing. I forsee almost no help from the banks or government for the cashflow crisis going to be caused by paying all of the VAT and income tax returns from last year up to now in october.

RandomViewer

Richard Hillman wrote: »

We owe the EU 15.7bn

What, did MM forget to bring a translator and went "Aye, surely aye" to everything

Bannasidhe

ELM327 wrote: »

Please point to where I did?
I posted "DSP Budget of 20bn to support their lifestyle choice".
Which is true. Hap, dole, childrens allowance.

Being old is a lifestyle choice now?

James Brown

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Being old is a lifestyle choice now?

Don't forget having a disability.

BonnieSituation

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Being old is a lifestyle choice now?

Well, I'll be first in line to chip away at the cosetted oldies, the biggest welfare "scroungers" of all.

Funny how they're never in the firing line from the likes of ELM eh, but the mythical single mother from Sallynoggin is?

Bannasidhe

Bowie wrote: »

Don't forget having a disability.

Don't you mean the "sick"?
I believe that was the description.

James Brown

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Don't you mean the "sick"?
I believe that was the description.

Would also include low income workers. Those who need state aid toward rent or other living expenses. The same folk give out about 'spongers' would be many of the same ones against raising minimum wage, meeting the living wage.
Best to use tax payer money to bail out workers than making private business eat into their profit margin.

Floppybits

ELM327 wrote: »

Children when you cannot support them with gainful employment are indeed a lifestyle choice.


No reply needed to the rest of your baiting crap.

So what if you were employed when you had children and then your circumstances change and you are made unemployed and have to sign on the Dole, what do you do with the Children then? Do you give them back or should the unemployed person leave the family and not come back till they are employed?

Brendan Bendar

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well, I'll be first in line to chip away at the cosetted oldies, the biggest welfare "scroungers" of all.

Funny how they're never in the firing line from the likes of ELM eh, but the mythical single mother from Sallynoggin is?

The “cossetted oldies” have paid in spades over their lifetime.

That’s the difference, a chara

The mythical single mother has certainly not and the father hasn’t either.

I’m afraid Mr B, that little foray into the bile department won’t fly.

Muahahaha

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No. We owe them money.

The EU played the trick that FG played on Martin for years when it was budget time. Proposed a load of imaginary cuts to services, Martin disagrees and stops the cuts, thus leaving the negotiations thinking he has gained something.

He went to the EU. The EU talked the big one about the Brexit relief fund. Martin probably tried to negotiate keeping it, the EU agree, ok we'll keep it. Martin leaves thinking he has won something, even though it was a fund already promised.

All in all, we are net contributors to the fund to bail out the Mediterranean tourist industry. I'm reading unverified reports on twitter that we owe the 16bn. That may not be the net.

Thats exactly what seems to have happened. I heard a snippet on radio yesterday that the EU threatened a cut to the CAP for farmers of 300 million per year and Martin came back form Brussels boasting of how he 'prevented' it. Yet he comes back form Brussels actually owing money. Best negotiators ever, credit goes to all those civil servants working 110 hour weeks :rolleyes:

Edgware

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The “Apple money” was never Ireland’s, we would have got next to nothing from it. You do realise thst

Of course I realise that. It is the charity shop clothed public representatives on 90,000 a year that don't and who were roaring at every opportunity that we should spend it.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The “cossetted oldies” have paid in spades over their lifetime.

That’s the difference, a chara

The mythical single mother has certainly not and the father hasn’t either.

I’m afraid Mr B, that little foray into the bile department won’t fly.

Bile?

RandomViewer

RTE not leading with EU deal,not a good sign

namloc1980

So what exactly do we get for contributing net €15.7bn to the EU stimulus fund? A warm fuzzy feeling?

And where the fook do we get the €15.7bn to contribute in the first place??

MrMusician18

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats exactly what seems to have happened. I heard a snippet on radio yesterday that the EU threatened a cut to the CAP for farmers of 300 million per year and Martin came back form Brussels boasting of how he 'prevented' it. Yet he comes back form Brussels actually owing money. Best negotiators ever, credit goes to all those civil servants working 110 hour weeks :rolleyes:

To be fair I don't mind that Ireland is a net contributor to the fund. Solidarity is more than words.

What I do find somewhat galling is that when Ireland needed solidarity it came at a price of 6% interest, yet the EU can now afford to give low interest loans and grants to wealthy nation's like Spain and Italy?

Measures like this may anchor Spain and Italy into the EU but it will surely come at the cost of undermining support elsewhere.

McMurphy

namloc1980 wrote: »

So what exactly do we get for contributing net €15.7bn to the EU stimulus fund? A warm fuzzy feeling?

And where the fook do we get the €15.7bn to contribute in the first place??

Looks like the holy trinity of Michaél, Leo and Eamo found that magic money free they kept telling us the shinners had hidden somewhere.

MrMusician18

McMurphy wrote: »

Looks like the holy trinity of Michaél, Leo and Eamo found that magic money free they kept telling us the shinners had hidden somewhere.

Presumably it's 15bn to be paid over 30 years, the length of the EUs programme.

Muahahaha

Leo now doing his thing of sticking his beak into the Tasoiseachs department and making Martin look like a mug over this Green List

James Brown

Saw that. He gave his tuppence to the press prior to the actual discussion. It seems he's not changed since he was a do nothing minister.

McMurphy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Presumably it's 15bn to be paid over 30 years, the length of the EUs programme.

But anyone suggesting we build Social housing, which also could also be paid back over decades (not to mention meaning we could park the hotels, B&Bs and paying hedgefunds their 25year leases) possessed a magic money tree.

And by the way, when cost of building the social housing is paid back, it's a state asset.


The money is always there when it has to be by the looks of things.

McMurphy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Leo now doing his thing of sticking his beak into the Tasoiseachs department and making Martin look like a mug over this Green List

Seen that and was immediately what I thought also.

Leopards can't change their spots.

Brendan Bendar

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Bile?

‘Scroungers’?

MrMusician18

McMurphy wrote: »

But anyone suggesting we build Social housing, which also could also be paid back over decades (not to mention meaning we could park the hotels, B&Bs and paying hedgefunds their 25year leases) possessed a magic money tree.

And by the way, when cost of building the social housing is paid back, it's a state asset.


The money is always there when it has to be by the looks of things.

The money is there now, at least while there is an unusually strong appetite for Irish government bonds.
Ireland's 20 year bond rate is 0.25%. The cost of the programme will be 375m/year

BonnieSituation

McMurphy wrote: »

But anyone suggesting we build Social housing, which also could also be paid back over decades (not to mention meaning we could park the hotels, B&Bs and paying hedgefunds their 25year leases) possessed a magic money tree.

And by the way, when cost of building the social housing is paid back, it's a state asset.


The money is always there when it has to be by the looks of things.

Sssssshhhh. Don't be coming in here with your sensible commentary.

Brendan Bendar

McMurphy wrote: »

But anyone suggesting we build Social housing, which also could also be paid back over decades (not to mention meaning we could park the hotels, B&Bs and paying hedgefunds their 25year leases) possessed a magic money tree.

And by the way, when cost of building the social housing is paid back, it's a state asset.


The money is always there when it has to be by the looks of things.

Hmmm unpaid rent to DCC what is it....... 37 million?

That’s a good asset

namloc1980

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The money is there now, at least while there is an unusually strong appetite for Irish government bonds.
Ireland's 20 year bond rate is 0.25%. The cost of the programme will be 375m/year

What do we get for that investment?