FF/FG/Green Next Government

James Brown

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Sounds like the ideal time for a pay rise doesn't it.

You have to pay for quality

Shefwedfan

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Sounds like the ideal time for a pay rise doesn't it.

Is that not what everyone else was looking for?

ELM327

efanton wrote: »

Easy to know FF are back in power


'Pandemic payment legislation means you must be 'genuinely seeking employment''
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pandemic-payment-legislation-means-you-must-be-genuinely-seeking-employment-1012639.html

Surely the whole point of the PUP payment was for those that ARE NOT seeking new employment but are unable to work due to covid restrictions. THey still (hopefully) have jobs to go back to once restrictions are lifted. Technically they are still in employment, and still under contract to work.

How is a barman going to seek work elsewhere?
How are the thousand of workers whose job is directly dependent on tourism going to find similar work elsewhere?
If the previous FG government were to be believed that unemployment was down to just a few percent before the covid crisis where are these jobs to be found?

Seriously, we are not two months into a new government and they are making a complete balls of it, and not making any sense at all.

If people are seeking new employment they should be applying for Job Seekers allowance, and there is absolutely zero need for this legislation.

This new legislation makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Not only that but no doubt it is likely to be legally challenged.

So, in order to receive a benefit from the DSP, you must be actively seeking employment? This is nothing new.


We need to ramp down the payment ASAP as we cannot afford it.

KyussB

We can't afford to not have the payment, because not having it will collapse our economy!

When you have high unemployment, your economy lives on massive deficit spending - making up for the giant gap from the private sector - and craters on reducing that deficit.

Well known Keynesian macroeconomics.

gmisk

I saw Richard Bruton was trending on Twitter....ah crap what have they done now....
Nothing it just turns out Richard Burton is RIPPED and he is 67!

James Brown

Nice to see the experienced steady hands of FF/FG at work.
With all those advisers you'd think...ah never mind.

ELM327

KyussB wrote: »

We can't afford to not have the payment, because not having it will collapse our economy!

When you have high unemployment, your economy lives on massive deficit spending - making up for the giant gap from the private sector - and craters on reducing that deficit.

Well known Keynesian macroeconomics.

Shall we pay for it with magic beans?


"The government" (read remaining tax base) cannot afford this indefinitely.
It has already been announced that it will be ramped down in stages to next April, at which point the PUP will be joined with JSA/JSB

smurgen

Bowie wrote: »

Nice to see the experienced steady hands of FF/FG at work.
With all those advisers you'd think...ah never mind.

Is there anything to be said for another advisor?

quokula

KyussB wrote: »

We can't afford to not have the payment, because not having it will collapse our economy!

When you have high unemployment, your economy lives on massive deficit spending - making up for the giant gap from the private sector - and craters on reducing that deficit.

Well known Keynesian macroeconomics.

We can't afford not to have it, but we also can't afford those who are on it to never get back to work.

So I don't see a problem with what the government are doing. They're not getting rid of the payment, they've just been tightening up some loopholes and making sure there are proper incentives to get back to work, which is ultimately what everyone needs. The payment is still there for anyone that needs it.

James Brown

quokula wrote: »

We can't afford not to have it, but we also can't afford those who are on it to never get back to work.

So I don't see a problem with what the government are doing. They're not getting rid of the payment, they've just been tightening up some loopholes and making sure there are proper incentives to get back to work, which is ultimately what everyone needs. The payment is still there for anyone that needs it.

That's sensible but did you notice the travel debacle were they tried to demonise people on PUP and welfare while giving themselves raises and each minister an entourage? Cynical clownmanship.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

That's sensible but did you notice the travel debacle were they tried to demonise people on PUP and welfare while giving themselves raises and each minister an entourage? Cynical clownmanship.

How did they demonise people?

RandomViewer

Would there be a possibility of the State being sued by employers for destroying their business,

James Brown

RandomViewer wrote: »

Would there be a possibility of the State being sued by employers for destroying their business,

I would expect it's the individuals problem should the employer need them and they aren't available. They chose to go abroad.

Snow Garden

Ah FFG, can you not go one day without controversy?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-intervened-to-see-if-coveney-could-keep-state-car-and-garda-driver-39407959.html

FORMER Taoiseach Leo Varadkar intervened to see if Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney could keep the use of a State car and garda driver.

Mr Coveney got the use of the car at a cost of around €200,000-a-year to taxpayers.

Labour Party leader Alan Kelly said the new revelations around Mr Coveney’s car raised serious questions about how the Government was being run.

“How can a Taoiseach who is outgoing make a decision for an incoming Taoiseach and direct the secretary general of the Taoiseach’s Department to call the secretary general of the Department of Justice – it makes no sense at all,” Mr Kelly said.

Mr Kelly also questioned who was in the charge of the Department of Justice if Ms McEntee was not being informed of significant State security matters. “What else she is not going to be told about and is this how she is going to conduct her department with civil servants taking decision without informing the minister,” he added.

What is the new security risk?

Hopeless.

KyussB

ELM327 wrote: »

Shall we pay for it with magic beans?


"The government" (read remaining tax base) cannot afford this indefinitely.
It has already been announced that it will be ramped down in stages to next April, at which point the PUP will be joined with JSA/JSB

Government is not financed solely from taxes - it's more affordable than it's ever been - and it needs funding until Full Employment, not indefinitely.

This is standard Keynesianism. The government can presently afford to hire the entire population of unemployed people into a Job Guarantee - and even pay back the costs of a huge chunk of that, with building for-profit housing, built by the government.

Maximizing GDP like that, even makes the Public Debt reduce faster. Keynesian deficit spending always pays for itself, by maximizing GDP.

It's allowing a persistent Output Gap (being below maximum GDP) that we have to pay for - as that is permanent harm done to the economy - and costs enormous numbers of people, a huge chunk of their potential lifetime income - that they could have earned in a Full Employment economy.

Every year a person spends unemployed, is tens of thousands of Euro removed from their lifetime income. Many thousands in spending and profits removed from the economy. For no reason.

KyussB

quokula wrote: »

We can't afford not to have it, but we also can't afford those who are on it to never get back to work.

So I don't see a problem with what the government are doing. They're not getting rid of the payment, they've just been tightening up some loopholes and making sure there are proper incentives to get back to work, which is ultimately what everyone needs. The payment is still there for anyone that needs it.

We can afford to pay all of those people, until they are back in work. We can directly give them work - e.g. building enormous amounts of for-profit housing for the state, to solve our housing crisis and make a profit for the state at the same time - in a Job Guarantee program, so that the payments are not being used for people to just sit idle.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

That's sensible but did you notice the travel debacle were they tried to demonise people on PUP and welfare while giving themselves raises and each minister an entourage? Cynical clownmanship.

If "demonise" means penalising people for breaking government advice, putting vulnerable people at risk by travelling abroad for non-essential travel to Ibiza and Magaluf, then I am all for it.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

If "demonise" means penalising people for breaking government advice, putting vulnerable people at risk by travelling abroad for non-essential travel to Ibiza and Magaluf, then I am all for it.

No it doesn't. It means using them as a scapegoat for the public ire.
As you know, because you misquoted me, went off on one, and I corrected you, I do not approve of any travel. What FF/FG did was lift the travel ban, advise people not to travel, then try penalise certain people based on their employment status.

You see this from Heather Humphreys?

She said the regulations will be amended so that anyone on Jobseeker's Allowance who wishes to travel to any countries on the green list can do so and continue to receive their payment.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0729/1156187-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

You must be livid? No respect for the working Nurse, civil servant etc. etc. right?

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

That's sensible but did you notice the travel debacle were they tried to demonise people on PUP and welfare while giving themselves raises and each minister an entourage? Cynical clownmanship.

Demonise!!!

Bit strong there,dude.

Brendan Bendar

KyussB wrote: »

We can afford to pay all of those people, until they are back in work. We can directly give them work - e.g. building enormous amounts of for-profit housing for the state, to solve our housing crisis and make a profit for the state at the same time - in a Job Guarantee program, so that the payments are not being used for people to just sit idle.

They are not all builders, my friend.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

No it doesn't. It means using them as a scapegoat for the public ire.
As you know, because you misquoted me, went off on one, and I corrected you, I do not approve of any travel. What FF/FG did was lift the travel ban, advise people not to travel, then try penalise certain people based on their employment status.

You see this from Heather Humphreys?



You must be livid? No respect for the working Nurse, civil servant etc. etc. right?

I am not repeating myself here on this thread, but this type of misunderstanding has already been corrected on another thread with the relevant references. Suffice to say that you don't seem to understand it.

As regards public servants, there was never an issue with public servants travelling to green-list countries, because they won't have to quarantine!!!!!

Shefwedfan

KyussB wrote: »

We can afford to pay all of those people, until they are back in work. We can directly give them work - e.g. building enormous amounts of for-profit housing for the state, to solve our housing crisis and make a profit for the state at the same time - in a Job Guarantee program, so that the payments are not being used for people to just sit idle.

So stick a load of people with no qualifications in an environment full of deadly equipment?

You not think that’s a small bit of a disaster waiting to happen?

If the plan is to kill off unemployed that is a good one

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not repeating myself here on this thread, but this type of misunderstanding has already been corrected on another thread with the relevant references. Suffice to say that you don't seem to understand it.

As regards public servants, there was never an issue with public servants travelling to green-list countries, because they won't have to quarantine!!!!!

You've not addressed these:

blanch152 wrote: »

It's a real eye-opener indeed when you see the likes of PBP, ICCL, and the DPC all willing to put public health at risk so that social welfare recipients can go on holidays while the ordinary working man had to take his holidays in his own house during lockdown. Unbelievable the way that people will defend stuff like that.

blanch152 wrote: »

It won't rumble on, but if it does, it could cause more harm to Sinn Fein and the rest of the opposition. Ordinary working people are horrified that they keep working while the entitlement class feel that they can ignore all of the advice and travel at will.

Mostly...

blanch152 wrote: »

So, some solicitor in FLAC thinks its wrong?

Quick fix in the Dail tomorrow and its sorted.

Seems HH knows it was wrong.
So now that FF/FG/Green are supporting the right of PUP and SW recipients to travel on their holliers you must be spitting feathers at them also?
Or will you now "defend stuff like that"?

Snow Garden

The headline on the 9 o'clock news sums up this government...

"Another day, another U-turn"

Shefwedfan

Snow Garden wrote: »

The headline on the 9 o'clock news sums up this government...

"Another day, another U-turn"

One minute RTE is the root of all evil, are we saying now RTE are great and a reliable source? :P

Snow Garden

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One minute RTE is the root of all evil, are we saying now RTE are great and a reliable source? :P

Yeah, so I never mentioned RTE as an unreliable source, ever. I just deal in facts. Maybe you could respond to the post/headline?

James Brown

How many weeks into this government are we now?

The Department of Social Protection has identified 85 cases of people who have lost their Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) as a result of holidaying abroad, where they may have been entitled to it.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0729/1156187-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

Making it up as they go. Was a time people would argue FF/FG were a good choice based on experience. We don't need that kind of 'experience'.

hotmail.com

Has Heather Humphries even once done a Prime Time interview or similar high profile interview?

How has she escaped any scrutiny?

Snow Garden

hotmail.com wrote: »

Has Heather Humphries even once done a Prime Time interview or similar high profile interview?

How has she escaped any scrutiny?

She is clearly hiding until the recess. Shorter recess this year though.

James Brown

Snow Garden wrote: »

She is clearly hiding until the recess. Shorter recess this year though.

The animal cruelty letter expose will be waiting.