FF/FG/Green Next Government

Tokyo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He is checking with head quarter to see what the answer is, he will be back soon

:-)

Don’t expect an actual answer either....

Mod: The next person to add running commentary on other posters to the thread will receive a permanent threadban. Consider this a final warning.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Not at all.
You are being evasive.

Why are you afraid of answering a simple question Matt?
It is either yes or no.

I presume, if you are giving out about the this that you are actually in favour of going against the advice of NPHET ?

I was asking why one and not the other and on what basis. Discussion you know?
If that's fighting words well....

dundalkfc10

I must say a huge congratulations to FFG/Greens on this week in Govt.

No major scandal and its now Wednesday lunch time.

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be honest getting drunk should be one of the last considerations for everyone, for some reason it seems to be the first.

People giving examples of 1-2 pubs breaking the recommendation is also going to hit a small section, if every pub in Ireland is open it will be a disaster.


Thing is loads of posters are aware of this, they are just saying they should be open because the government is keeping them closed. If MM came out yesterday and said he was opening them we would see uproar because he wasn't listening to expert. He keeps them closed and the same loonies are in uproar because they want it open.


Never see an alternative, just more mindless ramblings


Remember, you can always get pi**ed at home if you are so dependent on alcohol

I used to go to a pub once a fortnight, as I care for an elderly disabled 87 year old father at home. My one night, once a fortnight, where I was able to get out and unwind.
I always went on a Tuesday night, so even when there was no covid that pub never had more than 15 to 20 customers all evening.
The same pub could have up to a hundred customers on a Friday or Saturday night.
There are many pubs up and down the country that would have similar numbers during the week. I am not suggesting that pubs should open with hundreds of people drinking at the weekend.

I know a lot of people that would go to a pub and not drink alcohol.
Pubs are not just about getting pissed you know, maybe that's just your experience.

Why have pubs or restaurants open for food in current circumstances, are people incapable of cooking for themselves?
I find the argument that people eating food are somehow magically less likely to transfer the covid virus than those that dont pure nonsense.

I agree that pubs or any public venue must ensure there is adequate social distancing and measures in place to protect both staff and customers.
If a pub or public venue can provide service with restricted numbers of people, adequate social distancing, and measure in place to protect their staff, (no one sitting at the bar for instance, etc etc), then I see no reason why a set of rules could not be put together that allowed them to operate safely.
Why for instance are pubs that have beer gardens unable to open?

We all get it, its not that anyone wants covid to spread.
If the government and NPHET set limits on the number of people based on size of pub, ensured that publicans kept a written record of all customers and the dates and times they attended, and changes to the way that customers are served, then it would be down to the publicans to decide whether they could operate under such restrictions.

My point is simple. We allow people to use other venues that involve high numbers of customers such as shopping centres, cinemas, restaurants and hotels. This has worked because these venues have followed a list of strict guidelines, and limited the numbers of customers in any one location, I cant see the reason why this cant be done for pubs and other venues as well. It may well be that these regulations are still so restrictive that many pubs decide not to open anyhow. But the choice would be there for those publicans that could operate under those restrictions. To ensure any restrictions are enforced make it clear, through legislation if necessary, that any establishment that flouts theses rules would loose their license.

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

I used to go to a pub once a fortnight, as I care for an elderly disabled 87 year old father at home. My one night, once a fortnight, where I was able to get out and unwind.
I always went on a Tuesday night, so even when there was no covid that pub never had more than 15 to 20 customers all evening.
The same pub could have up to a hundred customers on a Friday or Saturday night.
There are many pubs up and down the country that would have similar numbers during the week. I am not suggesting that pubs should open with hundreds of people drinking at the weekend.

I know a lot of people that would go to a pub and not drink alcohol.
Pubs are not just about getting pissed you know, maybe that's just your experience.

Why have pubs or restaurants open for food in current circumstances, are people incapable of cooking for themselves?
I find the argument that people eating food are somehow magically less likely to transfer the covid virus than those that dont pure nonsense.

I agree that pubs or any public venue must ensure there is adequate social distancing and measures in place to protect both staff and customers.
If a pub or public venue can provide service with restricted numbers of people, adequate social distancing, and measure in place to protect their staff, (no one sitting at the bar for instance, etc etc), then I see no reason why a set of rules could not be put together that allowed them to operate safely.
Why for instance are pubs that have beer gardens unable to open?

We all get it, its not that anyone wants covid to spread.
If the government and NPHET set limits on the number of people based on size of pub, ensured that publicans kept a written record of all customers and the dates and times they attended, and changes to the way that customers are served, then it would be down to the publicans to decide whether they could operate under such restrictions.

My point is simple. We allow people to using other venues that involve high numbers of customers such as shopping centres, cinemas, restaurants and hotels. This has worked because these venues have followed a list of strict guidelines, and limited the numbers of customers in any one location, I cant see the reason why this cant be done for pubs and other venues as well. It may well be that these regulations are still so restrictive that many pubs decide not to open anyhow. But the choice would be there for those publicans that could operate under those restrictions. To ensure any restrictions are enforced make it clear, through legislation if necessary, that any establishment that flouts theses rules would loose their license.

You do understand the opening up slowly instead of the Big Bang approach and just open everything and hope the poo doesn’t hit the fan. To me it’s fairly simple idea, only open some section, food was easier than going around with a tape measure to every pub in Ireland, how would you police that?

It’s also amazing that people all over the world manage to socialise without a pub, even all over Ireland during and after the lock down have manage to meet up within restrictions and meet with friends, let steam off etc.

The_Conductor

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I must say a huge congratulations to FFG/Greens on this week in Govt.

No major scandal and its now Wednesday lunch time.

Not exactly setting the bar very high...........

RandomViewer

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I must say a huge congratulations to FFG/Greens on this week in Govt.

No major scandal and its now Wednesday lunch time.

There is the FG council candidate up in court in Cork, not big but maybe more to come

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do understand the opening up slowly instead of the Big Bang approach and just open everything and hope the poo doesn’t hit the fan. To me it’s fairly simple idea, only open some section, food was easier than going around with a tape measure to every pub in Ireland, how would you police that?

It’s also amazing that people all over the world manage to socialise without a pub, even all over Ireland during and after the lock down have manage to meet up within restrictions and meet with friends, let steam off etc.

Why the distinction between a pub and any other venue?

Are you against restaurants, hotels, cinemas, shopping centre or other venues with high volumes of customers opening?
If not, why not?

You yourself pointed out that people are still meeting up outside of pubs to share a drink. Does that make it safer?

dundalkfc10

efanton wrote: »

Why the distinction between a pub and any other venue?

Are you against restaurants, hotels, cinemas, shopping centre or other venues with high volumes of customers opening?
If not, why not?

You yourself pointed out that people are still meeting up outside of pubs to share a drink. Does that make it safer?

Yes cans in the house with 10 friends sitting around kitchen table is much safer than 10 of you sitting around a table in a pub having Pints.

Jesus everyone knows that :pac:

Covid does not like Kitchen Tables

Brendan Bendar

efanton wrote: »

Why the distinction between a pub and any other venue?

Are you against restaurants, hotels, cinemas, shopping centre or other venues with high volumes of customers opening?
If not, why not?

You yourself pointed out that people are still meeting up outside of pubs to share a drink. Does that make it safer?

Pubs are licensed premises, my friend, selling a legal, mind altering drug.

Just for starters.

is_that_so

:eek: Looks like some of the Greens want to be off already!

A number of Green TDs are considering at what point they will walk away from the coalition government.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40027727.html

KyussB

Well it's good that some of them have balls enough to have actual principles. Don't know what they were thinking, agreeing to such a shitty Plan for Government.

What we need to be considering now, is ending the current coalition - and forming a national unity government. We've got the rest of the coronavirus pandemic to deal with, and a big rupture with Brexit at the end of the year - we can't be dealing with FFG's shit on top of that, throughout - and another election is unwise (but that most certainly does not mean the Greens should hold out in the current coalition - absolutely not).

Edgware

is_that_so wrote: »

:eek: Looks like some of the Greens want to be off already!



https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40027727.html

Give the ****ing expert Saoirse a call. She will know what to do

Brendan Bendar

is_that_so wrote: »

:eek: Looks like some of the Greens want to be off already!



https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40027727.html

No kidding....ok

Suppose they had been too used to ‘calling’ for all kinds of bulldust over the years they never thought they would end up playing on the concrete..

Truthvader

KyussB wrote: »

Well it's good that some of them have balls enough to have actual principles. Don't know what they were thinking, agreeing to such a shitty Plan for Government.

What we need to be considering now, is ending the current coalition - and forming a national unity government. We've got the rest of the coronavirus pandemic to deal with, and a big rupture with Brexit at the end of the year - we can't be dealing with FFG's shit on top of that, throughout - and another election is unwise (but that most certainly does not mean the Greens should hold out in the current coalition - absolutely not).

Is Fine Gael /Fianna Fail plus the Greens not already a National Unity government?

KyussB

A national unity government is typically made up of all the biggest parties - this current government excludes the second biggest party.

Truthvader

KyussB wrote: »

A national unity government is typically made up of all the biggest parties - this current government excludes the second biggest party.

Because they have zero to contribute

Brendan Bendar

Truthvader wrote: »

Because they have zero to contribute

Apart from ruining the State, of course.

Fann Linn

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Apart from ruining the State, of course.

Which FG/FF are presently doing ably without anyone else's help.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Is Fine Gael /Fianna Fail plus the Greens not already a National Unity government?

Well the FF and Greens aren't even United parties.

ronivek

Yes; I'm sure a national unity government would be a great idea with both Brexit and the Covid-19 pandemic ongoing. Considering we have so much experience with national unity governments and all...

dundalkfc10

ronivek wrote: »

Yes; I'm sure a national unity government would be a great idea with both Brexit and the Covid-19 pandemic ongoing. Considering we have so much experience with national unity governments and all...

Well either FF or FG have been in Govt for near a century and they seem to be getting worse at everything. We have the ex leader thinking he's in charge saying what he likes cause MM dosnt know what to say

ronivek

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Well either FF or FG have been in Govt for near a century and they seem to be getting worse at everything. We have the ex leader thinking he's in charge saying what he likes cause MM dosnt know what to say

A consequence of this fact is that FF and FG have the majority of experience in actually governing the country; as opposed to the serial oppositionists and sometimes county councillors who make up the majority of the other parties.

I'm not sure that now is really an appropriate time to hand the reigns to Sinn Fein and let them try and engage in actual national governance or international diplomacy.

James Brown

Whereas giving jobs for the boys, raises and then taking holliers for a few months is how you get serious ...with Brexit and the Covid-19 pandemic

Fann Linn

ronivek wrote: »

A consequence of this fact is that FF and FG have the majority of experience in actually governing the country; as opposed to the serial oppositionists and sometimes county councillors who make up the majority of the other parties.

I'm not sure that now is really an appropriate time to hand the reigns to Sinn Fein and let them try and engage in actual national governance or international diplomacy.

Well why don't they just go on and govern so? Because if they do fcuk up they won't get another chance come next election?

The_Conductor

Bowie wrote: »

Whereas giving jobs for the boys, raises and then taking holliers for a few months is how you get serious ...with Brexit and the Covid-19 pandemic

Looks like they're planning on making the public sector pay for it- complete ban on recruitment- including to backfill positions of people retiring, ban on promotions- and for the public sector, specifically the civil service, ban on remote working- regardless of whether people work in open office scenarios or have personal offices (HEO and upwards). Apparently its all been signed, sealed and delivered by Forsa and the AHCPS- and is up for discussion with others.

Not sure what the story is with the ban on remote working- seeing as its been shown to work for junior management grades upwards, and part of the programme for government includes a section on promoting remote working, where possible..........

Truthvader

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well why don't they just go on and govern so? Because if they do fcuk up they won't get another chance come next election?

Really? The only experience Sinn Fein bring is killing people or not killing people. Neither of these options will address Brexit or Covid or anything else.

Cant even be bothered to show up in the North so the grown ups in London have to manage everything. Very good at complaining though

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Really? The only experience Sinn Fein bring is killing people or not killing people. Neither of these options will address Brexit or Covid or anything else.

Cant even be bothered to show up in the North so the grown ups in London have to manage everything. Very good at complaining though

Sinn Fein? Have you told Garda Patrol?

efanton

ronivek wrote: »

Yes; I'm sure a national unity government would be a great idea with both Brexit and the Covid-19 pandemic ongoing. Considering we have so much experience with national unity governments and all...

I am so glad that you agree.

A unity government is exactly what we need at the moment. It seems FF and FG are each trying to do solo runs, and neither actually remember the terms of their own program for government.
We have a Green party that signed an agreement, yet are now being forced by Dail whips to vote for something totally different.


PUP was a temporary payment for those STILL EMPLOYED but unable to work due to COVID. Suddenly, although still officially in employment, workers claiming the PUP might have to prove they are seeking work.
If they were unemployed they wouldn't be claiming PUP they would be claiming job seekers allowance.
They are either employed or unemployed.
You couldn't make it up its such a farce.

We had FG promising that no one would be made homeless due to not being able to fully pay their rents before the coalition was formed. Now that a coalition has been formed FG/FG can dispense with the niceties and now do an about turn on that promise.

We have restrictions on public transport, yet anyone can waltz in to the country through any airport, simply give an address where they might or might not be staying for two weeks and continued on as if nothing happened.
You would think at the very least the government would have informed airlines and travel agencies that they could not issue a return ticket to Ireland less than 14 days. If it was less than 14 days how were these people ever going to self isolate? Yet this is happening.
I would be curious to find out exactly how many of these addresses given are actually checked on, and whether these people actually stay there for 14 days or ever self isolated at all.

Now they expect to reopen all the schools having only come up with a plan a month before students return. School are expected to hire additional staff, and reorganise study areas so that social distancing can be adhered to. Some school didnt even have enough space for their students before covid, so I dread to think what cockeyed plan they have for these schools. Maybe a certain someone will get yet another government contract to provide portacabins or quick build accommodation at the last minute. Why wasnt the planning for this done months ago, its hardly a surprise that schools and Universities reopen in September.

At the beginning of May we had a total of 1000 available beds in our hospital. Now we have only 500 yet despite promises to increase permanent capacity and staffing in our hospitals nothing has happened. Is this government going to wait for a 2nd wave to happen before they actually do anything?

A unity government is exactly what we need. At least we would not have the constant screw ups we have had since this collation was being formed.
THe alternative is to wait for the Green party to self implode or withdraw from government citing that they are being forced to vote for measures they did not agree too.
At least with a Unity government nothing is agreed until all parties agree. No unexpected U-turns, no sudden changes to policies or the program for government, no ministers doing solo runs, or a deputy Taoiseach actually thinking he is still the Taoiseach. What the country needs now more than ever is stability and this coalition is about as stable as a seesaw.

Which would you prefer a unity government, or a general election?
Because the way things are going that is exactly the choice this country will face before the year is out.

dundalkfc10

The_Conductor wrote: »

Looks like they're planning on making the public sector pay for it- complete ban on recruitment- including to backfill positions of people retiring, ban on promotions- and for the public sector, specifically the civil service, ban on remote working- regardless of whether people work in open office scenarios or have personal offices (HEO and upwards). Apparently its all been signed, sealed and delivered by Forsa and the AHCPS- and is up for discussion with others.

Not sure what the story is with the ban on remote working- seeing as its been shown to work for junior management grades upwards, and part of the programme for government includes a section on promoting remote working, where possible..........

Their is currently an open EO competition in the Civil Service, an open one and one for people in service already. applications close tomorrow. Some ban on recruitment and promotions