FF/FG/Green Next Government

McMurphy

ELM327 wrote: »

No, the "working class" now are actually the neuveau riche lifetime dolers

So whom were those that "got up early in the morning" Leo was promising to look after?

Seems to me, he screwed the "working class", and actually rewarded the

neuveau riche lifetime dolers

I'd say that must stick in your craw?


Discuss.

Podge_irl

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Id be working class, working 37.5 wasting most my wages on Rent and Childcare, while our leaders are some of the highest paid politicians in Europe (fair enough if they were good at their job, the country's a ****ing shambles no matter sector you look at)

There is an incredibly lengthy list of jobs where Ireland would be among the highest paid in Europe, including many "working class" jobs. It is a high cost of living, high salaried country.

ELM327

McMurphy wrote: »

So whom were those that "got up early in the morning" Leo was promising to look after?

Seems to me, he screwed the "working class", and actually rewarded the

I'd say that must stick in your craw?


Discuss.

Your "discuss" is superfluous given we are on a discussion board.


Leo did not look after the real working class. The get up early class, the commuter class.

A simple move of the higher tax band from 35 to 50k, similar to the UK, would be a big saving for anyone earning 35-100k.

ELM327

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is an incredibly lengthy list of jobs where Ireland would be among the highest paid in Europe, including many "working class" jobs. It is a high cost of living, high salaried country.

It's no good receiving the highest wages in Europe, when the costs of rent, mortgage, childcare are highest in Europe too.

BonnieSituation

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolutely, but the problem is, many countries have tried this, but none have found a way to make it fool proof (ie stop bars accepting the vouchers)


Perhaps a debit card with the funds and a list of allowed items would work.


I remember being on the dole in 2008 for 9 months and couldnt believe they just handed me 204.30 in cash. No questions asked. I could literally have bought heroin on the way home.

What questions would you expect to be asked? Were you on JA or JB?

Has it ever occurred to you what you've been paying PRSI for?

You could have literally bought €204.30 worth of almost anything actually. That's how money works.

Though I find it laughable that someone like yourself given your penchant for right-wing Helen Lovejoy-esque posts would have any idea how to get heroin. But I'd pay good money - about €203.00 - to see that transaction happen.

BonnieSituation

ELM327 wrote: »

No, the "working class" now are actually the neuveau riche lifetime dolers

Who are these people?

Because they seem to have it sussed.

If anything it shows up the stupidity and seeming futility of how you have conducted yourself if these people are getting ahead of you merely through the use of state support schemes?

I'd be having a long hard look at yourself tbh.

McMurphy

ELM327 wrote: »

Your "discuss" is superfluous given we are on a discussion board.


Leo did not look after the real working class. The get up early class, the commuter class.

A simple move of the higher tax band from 35 to 50k, similar to the UK, would be a big saving for anyone earning 35-100k.

Hence why I said it must stick in your craw and asked you to discuss.

BonnieSituation

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

They could simply stop this by giving Food Vouchers and Fuel Vouchers that cant be used for alcohol fags etc but the Govt dont have the balls to do it

Simply?

Why do you want to track people's spending? Seems a bit right wing and totalitarian to me.

Would you have an approved list of goods that these people could buy?

Would you say, be allowed to buy biscuits like a Fox's Classic or Viscounts? Or is the bourbon cream the height of luxury that one could be allowed.

What tea can I buy in your system? And bread? Actually, can I get a newspaper when I'm in the shop?

I guess I'll limit myself to off cuts and offal as well. No chicken breasts or sirloin for me.

Seriously, think about the logic here. You're idea is basically to return to butter vouchers. Madness.

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolutely, but the problem is, many countries have tried this, but none have found a way to make it fool proof (ie stop bars accepting the vouchers)


Perhaps a debit card with the funds and a list of allowed items would work.

See above.

ELM327

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What questions would you expect to be asked? Were you on JA or JB?

Has it ever occurred to you what you've been paying PRSI for?

You could have literally bought €204.30 worth of almost anything actually. That's how money works.

Though I find it laughable that someone like yourself given your penchant for right-wing Helen Lovejoy-esque posts would have any idea how to get heroin. But I'd pay good money - about €203.00 - to see that transaction happen.

JSB, the contributory one.
I shouldnt have been given the money no questions asked!

BonnieSituation

ELM327 wrote: »

JSB, the contributory one.
I shouldnt have been given the money no questions asked!

You literally should have. I'm glad DEASP did their job without prejudice despite your own.

dundalkfc10

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Simply?

Why do you want to track people's spending? Seems a bit right wing and totalitarian to me.

Would you have an approved list of goods that these people could buy?

Would you say, be allowed to buy biscuits like a Fox's Classic or Viscounts? Or is the bourbon cream the height of luxury that one could be allowed.

What tea can I buy in your system? And bread? Actually, can I get a newspaper when I'm in the shop?

I guess I'll limit myself to off cuts and offal as well. No chicken breasts or sirloin for me.

Seriously, think about the logic here. You're idea is basically to return to butter vouchers. Madness.



See above.

Quite simple, the vouchers cannot be used for Alcohol or Fags. They can spend them on whatever food is needed for the week and also get vouchers for bills ie heat etc

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

No, the "working class" now are actually the neuveau riche lifetime dolers

How many people are we talking? Nobody can give a figure.
Seems FF/FG sre the ones using the working class to feed the private rental industry.

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolutely, but the problem is, many countries have tried this, but none have found a way to make it fool proof (ie stop bars accepting the vouchers)


Perhaps a debit card with the funds and a list of allowed items would work.


I remember being on the dole in 2008 for 9 months and couldnt believe they just handed me 204.30 in cash. No questions asked. I could literally have bought heroin on the way home.

McDonald's not hiring, no kitchen porter jobs?

Walked in off the street did you? No identifying documents requested? No employment status or employment history request? No living conditions questions? No waiting period? If you want to discuss it at least be honest.

The_Conductor

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Quite simple, the vouchers cannot be used for Alcohol or Fags. They can spend them on whatever food is needed for the week and also get vouchers for bills ie heat etc

Supermarkets can handle vouchers reliably- not allowing them on alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets, baby food and a few other categories of goods. If a supermarket can consistently do this- don't see why it couldn't be modified and repurposed elsewhere.

BonnieSituation

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Quite simple, the vouchers cannot be used for Alcohol or Fags. They can spend them on whatever food is needed for the week and also get vouchers for bills ie heat etc

So you want to set up a separate "legal tender" system solely for people on State benefits?

Can they spend the vouchers on clothes? What about broadband and TV? Mobile phone bills/credit?

That seems a bit wasteful to have two concurrent systems for no actual reason other than some misguided notion that everyone on DEASP payments are all chain smoking alcoholics.

Unless of course it is solely to stigmatise people for their current financial or career situation. You wouldn't be condoning that surely?

BonnieSituation

The_Conductor wrote: »

Supermarkets can handle vouchers reliably- not allowing them on alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets, baby food and a few other categories of goods. If a supermarket can consistently do this- don't see why it couldn't be modified and repurposed elsewhere.

Modified and repurposed for what?

"Elsewhere" as in where exactly?

The_Conductor

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That seems a bit wasteful to have 2 concurrent systems for no actual reason other than some misguided notion that everyone on DEASP payments are all chain smoking alcoholics.

You forgot about gamblers too.........
The largest days (by a sizable margin) for sales of lottery tickets- are children's benefit day, pension payment day, and EA/EB days. Some of these days (such as children's benefit day) consistently report up to a 400% rise in the sale of lottery tickets. Its been discussed in DEASP on several occasions- and there were also representations made to An Post to try and get staff not to upsell lottery tickets to cash recipients.

Dyr

The_Conductor wrote: »

You forgot about gamblers too.........
The largest days (by a sizable margin) for sales of lottery tickets- are children's benefit day, pension payment day, and EA/EB days. Some of these days (such as children's benefit day) consistently report up to a 400% rise in the sale of lottery tickets. Its been discussed in DEASP on several occasions- and there were also representations made to An Post to try and get staff not to upsell lottery tickets to cash recipients.

People at the bottom of the ladder are always going to buy lottery tickets, its often the one hope they have that their ship will come in. Not sure what you're going to achieve by stopping that, the money goes straight back into the state mostly.


I'd like to see scratch cards and the like done away with, personally but stopping some people from buiyng them while others can? Bad idea.

James Brown

Typically disgusting FG line of debate. Anyone out of work or in need of state aid is lazy and prone to spending any money FG give them on drink or drugs. Not a normal party.

FF/FG/Greens:
You work hard but don't make enough to pay rent and feed yourself, we'll not allow the livable wage or right to collective bargaining because it will hurt our pals profits, but we will give you some money we kept from your wages but use you as a scapegoat if the sheep who support us bleat too much.

Meanwhile we're going to kiss the arse off TikTok so they can set up in our tax haven, even though the rest of the world has data security concerns and some are thinking of kicking them out.

Yurt2

Bambi wrote: »

I'd like to see scratch cards and the like done away with, personally but stopping some people from buiyng them while others can? Bad idea.

Whatever about the lotto, the odds of winning fairly obvious if remote. Scratchcards are a complete scam, someday a scandal will break about them.

The_Conductor

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Modified and repurposed for what?

"Elsewhere" as in where exactly?

We all collect coupons/vouchers/cash-equivalents that have limited redemption options- such as on electricity/gas/internet/mobile phone/other service/facility/amenity suppliers (from specific suppliers who could be made tender for the privilege of redeeming the vouchers- and give preferable rates to recipients).

We had this several times in Ireland in the past- remember the butter vouchers, the beef vouchers, the free milk/youghurt/cheese schemes etc etc

Sure- you got some shops deliberately accepting butter vouchers for cigarettes or something else- but they were the exception rather than the rule- and numerous prosecutions did happen over it.

The_Conductor

Bambi wrote: »

People at the bottom of the ladder are always going to buy lottery tickets, its often the one hope they have that their ship will come in. Not sure what you're going to achieve by stopping that, the money goes straight back into the state mostly.

Nope- the lions share of the profit go to 'The Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund'.
You may forget we were persuaded that if we sold the lottery in 2013 it would pay for a new children's hospital. We got €405 million for it- hell, Brendan Howlin was suggesting uses for the surplus that would be over after we paid for the hospital. Its funny what a difference 7 years makes.

The people who can least afford to gamble in society- are those who do so. I would argue that people should be saved from their own worst excesses- by whatever means necessary.

Yurt2

Bowie wrote: »

Meanwhile we're going to kiss the arse off TikTok so they can set up in out tax haven, even though the rest of the world has data security concerns and some are thinking of kicking them out.

The Data Protection Commission HQ is literally in an office above a Spar in Portarlington. It's a joke. This area is seriously underegulated in Ireland and we're completely obsiquous to the social media companies on this front.

The last Data Commissioner appointed was noted for her inexperience. By all accounts the big tech firms were delighted.

RandomViewer

Yurt! wrote: »

Whatever about the lotto, the odds of winning fairly obvious if remote. Scratchcards are a complete scam, someday a scandal will break about them.

Covid is saving the country from Marty Whelan:)

ELM327

Bowie wrote: »

McDonald's not hiring, no kitchen porter jobs?

Walked in off the street did you? No identifying documents requested? No employment status or employment history request? No living conditions questions? No waiting period? If you want to discuss it at least be honest.

I was not required to provide anything.
After initial sign on, I had to sign on only one other time.

dundalkfc10

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you want to set up a separate "legal tender" system solely for people on State benefits?

Can they spend the vouchers on clothes? What about broadband and TV? Mobile phone bills/credit?

That seems a bit wasteful to have two concurrent systems for no actual reason other than some misguided notion that everyone on DEASP payments are all chain smoking alcoholics.

Unless of course it is solely to stigmatise people for their current financial or career situation. You wouldn't be condoning that surely?

Of course they can be spent on clothes.

Broadband yes, TV standard Saorview only, Nobody on the dole long term should have Sky TV for example.

Im saying this should be brought in for anybody on Jobseekers longer than 1 year

KyussB

Fuck food vouchers - they can be traded for cash among family members or friends, or the food items bought and then those traded with family/friends for cash - utter waste of time.

The only just way to resolve the unemployment problem, is a Job Guarantee where the government is forced to hire people as employer of last resort - and there are fucking mountains worth of work that need to be done, building houses especially, which almost anyone can be trained up into doing, and which we're going to have probably a decades worth of high unemployment to do all of this - and the cheapest availability of money ever, with the ability for such capital projects to be self-financing...

So piss off with these childish, dickensian dole debates.

Podge_irl

ELM327 wrote: »

It's no good receiving the highest wages in Europe, when the costs of rent, mortgage, childcare are highest in Europe too.

My point is that it is similarly pointless to compare politician's salaries here to those in Spain/Germany/etc. For the most part, all salaries in Ireland are higher than elsewhere in Europe.

RandomViewer

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Of course they can be spent on clothes.

Broadband yes, TV standard Saorview only, Nobody on the dole long term should have Sky TV for example.

Im saying this should be brought in for anybody on Jobseekers longer than 1 year

When you start micromanaging people you are going to get a smack in the ballot box, current system keeps majority docile, mess with it and accept the consequences.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Simply?

Why do you want to track people's spending? Seems a bit right wing and totalitarian to me.

Would you have an approved list of goods that these people could buy?

Would you say, be allowed to buy biscuits like a Fox's Classic or Viscounts? Or is the bourbon cream the height of luxury that one could be allowed.

What tea can I buy in your system? And bread? Actually, can I get a newspaper when I'm in the shop?

I guess I'll limit myself to off cuts and offal as well. No chicken breasts or sirloin for me.

Seriously, think about the logic here. You're idea is basically to return to butter vouchers. Madness.



See above.

The_Conductor wrote: »

We all collect coupons/vouchers/cash-equivalents that have limited redemption options- such as on electricity/gas/internet/mobile phone/other service/facility/amenity suppliers (from specific suppliers who could be made tender for the privilege of redeeming the vouchers- and give preferable rates to recipients).

We had this several times in Ireland in the past- remember the butter vouchers, the beef vouchers, the free milk/youghurt/cheese schemes etc etc

Sure- you got some shops deliberately accepting butter vouchers for cigarettes or something else- but they were the exception rather than the rule- and numerous prosecutions did happen over it.

We sure did have it in the past. I mentioned it in my initial post. It's an absolutely outrageous idea to think about reintroducing such a scheme.

Of all the major issues in this State, do you think that this is really something that needs to happen?

Honestly, some people's ideas of State support, privacy and democracy are completely warped.

The_Conductor wrote: »

You forgot about gamblers too.........
The largest days (by a sizable margin) for sales of lottery tickets- are children's benefit day, pension payment day, and EA/EB days. Some of these days (such as children's benefit day) consistently report up to a 400% rise in the sale of lottery tickets. Its been discussed in DEASP on several occasions- and there were also representations made to An Post to try and get staff not to upsell lottery tickets to cash recipients.

Upsell? Is this an issue in post offices? I have never been asked to buy a product while using a post office.

People's use of their money is none of your business.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Of course they can be spent on clothes.

Broadband yes, TV standard Saorview only, Nobody on the dole long term should have Sky TV for example.

Im saying this should be brought in for anybody on Jobseekers longer than 1 year

Wow, did you always aspire to live in East Germany?