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FF/FG/Green Next Government
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The Labour Share of Income (workers share of profits/income, nationally) has been declining since the 70's, all across the western world, coinciding directly with the rise of NeoLiberalism:Thanks for the history lesson but again, the 70's were kinda **** world-wide.
If one wants to look at the reduction of absolute poverty since the 80's..
Life expectancy
Women in education.
Now, are there some edge cases where things have not worked out as well as we hoped. Yes, I am man enough to admit that, but the underlying reasons for this is very complicated, but can be summarised by the rise of China.
The working class in the west have been put out by the rise in China, but then again up to 400 million people in China would be classed as middle class, so its not all bad.
Again, its complicated. But there are idiots online and social media just want to encapsulate complicated issues into a buzz word or soundbite.
P9: https://www.bruegel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/PC-12-2017-1.pdf
P8: http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/68197/sweeney 2012-3 ssisi.pdf
Pinning the blame of China is exactly the kind of simplification of a complicated issue that you criticize.0 -
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Thanks for the history lesson but again, the 70's were kinda **** world-wide.
If one wants to look at the reduction of absolute poverty since the 80's..
Life expectancy
Women in education.
Now, are there some edge cases where things have not worked out as well as we hoped. Yes, I am man enough to admit that, but the underlying reasons for this is very complicated, but can be summarised by the rise of China.
The working class in the west have been put out by the rise in China, but then again up to 400 million people in China would be classed as middle class, so its not all bad.
Again, its complicated. But there are idiots online and social media just want to encapsulate complicated issues into a buzz word or soundbite.
I notice that the somehow used lifetime expectancy and 3rd level education as indicators of the reduction of poverty?
They have very little to do with poverty or the trend where ordinary people appear to be worse off each year rather than better off. For abject poverty you might have an argument, but we are not a 3rd world country.
Why did you not do a comparison of wage income compared to corporate profits or increased GDP ?
Surely that would be the best indicator as to whether poverty is being reduced.
As the economy and GDP grows surely it would be reasonable to expect the income of those that contributed to that to increase as well. The reality ls a completely different story though.
The reality is that wages are increasing at a tiny fraction of the rate that company profits and GDP are increasing. What does that mean?
Well if you are an ordinary worker (irrespective of skill level or education) you will have noticed that the incomes of businesses, those that own businesses, or those that earn a living from property (landlords, developers etc) have increased dramatically while at the same time your wages have increased at a relatively low rate over the last 30 years. In fact due to the increase in rents and property values those small increases in income might not account for you increased monthly costs.
In plain an simple terms the rich are getting richer and everyone else are either seeing extremely modest increases in personal wealth, barely treading water and keeping their head above water, or they are actually experiencing a trend towards poverty.
The chart below is from a July 2018 presentation by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) on the Employment Outlook 2018 report from the think-tank for mainly rich country governments.
What that graph clearly show is that from the 1990's corporate and business profits are clearly increasing dramatically while incomes for the 50% of workers at the lower end of the scale stagnated. Prior to this generally wage increases kept pace with corporate profits.
Its all well and good attracting big business to Ireland, but surely the purpose of doing so is so that the citizens of Ireland and the country as a whole benefit from this.
While multinationals employ early 230,000 people in this country, jobs that we as a country cannot afford to lose, there is a fair and reasonable argument that the trend of wage stagnation seen in most OECD countries since the 1990's has to change or that we do increase the taxation that these multinationals pay. While multinational pay 12.5% corporate tax on the earnings from this country, they pay an effective tax rate (ETR) of 2.2–4.5% on global profits "shifted" to Ireland.
What ever way you look at it that an awful lot of profit that is not reasonably taxed.
Now I am not suggesting for one minute that we start taxing the bejesus of of the multinationals or indigenous Irish businesses, nor charge them 12.5% on all profits, but there is a reasonable argument to suggest that we somehow increase the effective tax rate on Intellectual Property related profits by just a fraction of a percent.
In 2015 Apple imported $300 BILLION worth of global profits into Ireland to avail of these 2.2–4.5% effective tax rates.
Simply increasing that by just 0.5% would net the Irish exchequer an additional 1.5 billion euro. Put it another way, if that amount had been divided among all employees of multinationals in this country that would equate to a $180 a month pay rise or $180 per month less tax that they would pay,
Now you will argue that that was a one off movement of wealth and would not net the Irish exchequer 1.5 billion every year and I would agree, but we are talking about one single multinational company, that makes profit each year and generally increases the profit it makes. If you applied the same measure to all Intellectual Property profits imported to Ireland it would add up to a very significant amount of money and yet there would be absolutely no risk whatsoever of these multinationals pulling out of Ireland.
Personally I think indigenous big business and multinationals have had far too much influence over Irish governments and their taxation measures. If these companies are not prepared to increase the wages they pay proportionate to the increased profits they are making then it is reasonable that the Irish government extract a tiny fraction of those imported profits and use that to reduce taxation of the middle and lower income workers that have been hit hardest in recent years.0 -
I notice that the somehow used lifetime expectancy and 3rd level education as indicators of the reduction of poverty?
They have very little to do with poverty or the trend where ordinary people appear to be worse off each year rather than better off. For abject poverty you might have an argument, but we are not a 3rd world country.
Why did you not do a comparison of wage income compared to corporate profits or increased GDP ?
Surely that would be the best indicator as to whether poverty is being reduced.
As the economy and GDP grows surely it would be reasonable to expect the income of those that contributed to that to increase as well. The reality ls a completely different story though.
The reality is that wages are increasing at a tiny fraction of the rate that company profits and GDP are increasing. What does that mean?
Well if you are an ordinary worker (irrespective of skill level or education) you will have noticed that the incomes of businesses, those that own businesses, or those that earn a living from property (landlords, developers etc) have increased dramatically while at the same time your wages have increased at a relatively low rate over the last 30 years. In fact due to the increase in rents and property values those small increases in income might not account for you increased monthly costs.
In plain an simple terms the rich are getting richer and everyone else are either seeing extremely modest increases in personal wealth, barely treading water and keeping their head above water, or they are actually experiencing a trend towards poverty.
The chart below is from a July 2018 presentation by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) on the Employment Outlook 2018 report from the think-tank for mainly rich country governments.
What that graph clearly show is that from the 1990's corporate and business profits are clearly increasing dramatically while incomes for the 50% of workers at the lower end of the scale stagnated. Prior to this generally wage increases kept pace with corporate profits.
Its all well and good attracting big business to Ireland, but surely the purpose of doing so is so that the citizens of Ireland and the country as a whole benefit from this.
While multinationals employ early 230,000 people in this country, jobs that we as a country cannot afford to lose, there is a fair and reasonable argument that the trend of wage stagnation seen in most OECD countries since the 1990's has to change or that we do increase the taxation that these multinationals pay. While multinational pay 12.5% corporate tax on the earnings from this country, they pay an effective tax rate (ETR) of 2.2–4.5% on global profits "shifted" to Ireland.
What ever way you look at it that an awful lot of profit that is not reasonably taxed.
Now I am not suggesting for one minute that we start taxing the bejesus of of the multinationals or indigenous Irish businesses, nor charge them 12.5% on all profits, but there is a reasonable argument to suggest that we somehow increase the effective tax rate on Intellectual Property related profits by just a fraction of a percent.
In 2015 Apple imported $300 BILLION worth of global profits into Ireland to avail of these 2.2–4.5% effective tax rates.
Simply increasing that by just 0.5% would net the Irish exchequer an additional 1.5 billion euro. Put it another way, if that amount had been divided among all employees of multinationals in this country that would equate to a $180 a month pay rise or $180 per month less tax that they would pay,
Now you will argue that that was a one off movement of wealth and would not net the Irish exchequer 1.5 billion every year and I would agree, but we are talking about one single multinational company, that make profit each year and generally increases the profit it makes. If you applied the same measure to all Intellectual Property profits imported to Ireland it would add up to a very significant amount of money and yet there would be absolutely no risk whatsoever of these multinationals pulling out of Ireland.
Personally I think indigenous big business and multinationals have had far too much influence over Irish governments and their taxation measures. If these companies are not prepared to increase the wages they pay proportionate to the increased profits they are making then it is reasonable that the Irish government extract a tiny fraction of those imported profits and use that to reduce taxation of the middle and lower income workers that have been hit hardest in recent years.
Could you go through that again. I missed it while toasting my sandwich0 -
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