FF/FG/Green Next Government

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Was Ireland better in the 70's?

Yes/No?

By what metric? We'd fewer homeless children. A person with a half decent job might be able to buy a house. We'd more public land and public housing stock. We'd less people on hospital trolleys. We weren't in billions of generational debt. A little controversial but Disco was pretty sweet.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

What similar policies have they introduced up north?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/pub-reopenings-in-north-pushed-back-masks-to-become-mandatory-1.4323878

The Northern Executive has decided to delay the opening of pubs which do not sell food and make the wearing of masks mandatory in shops from Monday.

It also decided that all schools, including special schools, are to open on a full time basis, five days a week when the term restarts at the end of August and early September.

The NI Executive doing exactly was this government are doing....
So, it is fair to ask, if one is angry at the government about pubs here in the south, then its fair to be also angry at the NI executive which SF are a part of....

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

That oxfam study has been debunked as it counts people in ireland who dont live there and are non resident.

Homelessness has decressed since the start of the year, this is a fact. Now you want to change the goal posts by putting in some other metric as a measurement. Sifting the goal-posts.

People can see through your nonesense.

You are desperately trying to keep your head above water here. My article is from 2020 and even if you want to dismiss it because one or two might be tax resident elsewhere, with their family in Ireland, it wasnt made up or complete horse manure now was it?

So its been getting worse steadily for several years, as I said, then as if by magic....

Covid 19. Haircuts were also down.

You are not posting honestly.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/pub-reopenings-in-north-pushed-back-masks-to-become-mandatory-1.4323878



The NI Executive doing exactly was this government are doing....
So, it is fair to ask, if one is angry at the government about pubs here in the south, then its fair to be also angry at the NI executive which SF are a part of....

I asked you what it had to do with me mentioning inspectors sent to airports to cut pup instead of being sent to meat processing plants, and you link to pubs being shut up north?

Are the assembly about to tell some pubs who were opened up selling food, to reclose again because of outbreaks in meat processing plants?

I repeat, what is the point of bringing up something that has no bearing on what I posted?

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

I asked you what it had to do with me mentioning inspectors sent to airports to cut pup instead of being sent to meat processing plants, and you link to pubs being shut up north?

I repeat, what is the point?

Pretty much 'look over there!'.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

By what metric? We'd fewer homeless children. A person with a half decent job might be able to buy a house. We'd more public land and public housing stock. We'd less people on hospital trolleys. We weren't in billions of generational debt. A little controversial but Disco was pretty sweet.

We also had kids in RCC institutions and mother and baby homes, but I guess we dont count that as 'homeless'.
A half decent job... hard to come by in the 70's and 80's. Did you live through these times? If you did, you would know what I am on about.
The population of state declined in the 80's due to over 200,000 young Irish people leaveing, even though contraception as illegal for the most part.


You are some laugh Matt.
If I said the sky was blue, you would post some banal dribble about it being not.

But sure, the 70's and 80's were great. Lets try and remake Ireland into that.
A great arguemtent to bring to the table.
Irexit, here we come!

McMurphy

Bowie wrote: »

Pretty much 'look over there!'.

The bar owner stated fairly clearly that they (govt) knew that there was problems in the meat processing plants, yet it's his (and all the other bars in the three counties) that have to shut down again.

Marko counters that with "well up north they're not letting the bars open up that don't serve food"

Em...... Ok.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

I asked you what it had to do with me mentioning inspectors sent to airports to cut pup instead of being sent to meat processing plants, and you link to pubs being shut up north?

Are the assembly about to tell some pubs who were opened up selling food, to reclose again because of outbreaks in meat processing plants?

I repeat, what is the point of bringing up something that has no bearing on what I posted?

Posts video about a pub owner giving about the government, then changes the subject to PUP and meat plants when its brought to attention that SF did the exact same thing in NI.... :D:D:D

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

We also had kids in RCC institutions and mother and baby homes, but I guess we dont count that as 'homeless'.
A half decent job... hard to come by in the 70's and 80's. Did you live through these times? If you did, you would know what I am on about.
The population of state declined in the 80's due to over 200,000 young Irish people leaveing, even though contraception as illegal for the most part.


You are some laugh Matt.
If I said the sky was blue, you would post some banal dribble about it being not.

But sure, the 70's and 80's were great. Lets try and remake Ireland into that.
A great arguemtent to bring to the table.
Irexit, here we come!

I asked by what metric.

Why do you call me Matt when you paint yourself into a corner? Is it a safe word?

Never said they were great. You are obsessed with creating distinct sides.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

So its been getting worse steadily for several years, as I said, then as if by magic....

What is 'it'.

Something you make up on the spot to suit your lie of the day?

Homelessness in Ireland is at a 4 year low. This is a FACT.
Own it, or begone.

Snow Garden

The meat factory owners in the past always had strong connections with Dail Eireann members in FF, FG and Labour. Both Cowens for example. They had a direct line to the levers of power. I am not sure if thats still the case but they are used to making up their own rules of engagement and flouting laws.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

I asked by what metric.

Wealth, people in work, quality of life, education, health, women in work, social freedoms, no church breathing down your neck.


Now, if you want to pick some single metric and say,...
"LOOK! HOMELESSNESS... OMG!! ITS SOOOO BAD NOW"
As some banal attempt to try and say that the 80's were actually OK.. then go ahead but most people wont be fooled.


Ireland today tanks 6th in the HCI index.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Capital_Index

I think that an achievment but I know misery junkies among us dont see it that way.

Never said they were great. You are obsessed with creating distinct sides.

So, today is better than the 70's/80's or worse, or about the 'same'?
Baby steps with you it seems.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

What is 'it'.

Something you make up on the spot to suit your lie of the day?

Homelessness in Ireland is at a 4 year low. This is a FACT.
Own it, or begone.

As are A and E visits. Due to Covid 19.
Look it up. Had this conversation only a few months back.

It's funny how the metrics used are flawed until the numbers favour gubmint.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Posts video about a pub owner giving about the government, then changes the subject to PUP and meat plants when its brought to attention that SF did the exact same thing in NI.... :D:D:D

I think we can chalk this attempt at smart arsery down as an epic failure.

Here's the original post you replied to, I've highlighted the relevant text - if you want me to do it again but edit the text so it's in a nice shade of a primary colour that can be arranged too.

McMurphy wrote: »

Declan Brady won't be voting for FFG in the next election by the sounds of him, the man's almost crying.

You can't argue with him tbh, would have made sense to send inspectors into the likes of Goodman's factories instead of airports to see if some lad could have his pup cut or stopped.

https://twitter.com/VirginMediaNews/status/1291830220610207746?s=09

Epic failure. E-

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

As are A and E visits. Due to Covid 19.
Look it up. Had this conversation only a few months back.

It's funny how the metrics used are flawed until the numbers favour gubmint.

Its funny how the perpetual detractors will ignore the numbers and facts when they go the wrong way, even though you said earlier, homelessness was getting worse, but you were wrong of course, its getting better.

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

What is 'it'.

Something you make up on the spot to suit your lie of the day?

Homelessness in Ireland is at a 4 year low. This is a FACT.
Own it, or begone.

To be fair its not a fact.
There is no factual or accurate data regarding homeless people at the moment.

The homeless don't march in to an office each week and sign on to say they are homeless. The figure for the number of homeless comes from social workers and charity workers who actually meet and talk to the the homeless on the streets and also from those managing the hostels.

With covid restrictions in full swing those social workers who are employed by the state that would meet the homeless on the street are no longer walking the street themselves, so it would be impossible for them to report any homeless unless they were contacted by phone.
A lot of the hostels are closed or running with reduced capacity. Obviously the numbers of homeless people that they report as staying or being assisted at a hostel is down too.
There are still charity worker patrolling the street trying to aid the homeless and these do report the numbers they find. But they cant patrol every street, every park or every location the homeless might use.

The homeless didnt disappear into thin air, they are still on the street just not in contact with government social workers, charity workers or hostel staff as they once were.

So even if the government is genuinely not trying to massage figures, (and there is no evidence that that are), the figures the government are getting will obviously be much lower than reality due to lack of contact because of covid restrictions.

So all you can say at best is the homeless numbers 'appear' to be at a four year low, but the reality is they could equally be at an all time high. You can't make neither statement because the data is totally unreliable.

Shefwedfan

McMurphy wrote: »

Declan Brady won't be voting for FFG in the next election by the sounds of him, the man's almost crying.

You can't argue with him tbh, would have made sense to send inspectors into the likes of Goodman's factories instead of airports to see if some lad could have his pup cut or stopped.

https://twitter.com/VirginMediaNews/status/1291830220610207746?s=09

Poor man is devastated and all you can think of is political points. Serious grow up

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

To be fair its not a fact.
There is no factual or accurate data regarding homeless people at the moment.

The homeless don't march in to an office each week and sign on to say they are homeless. The figure for the number of homeless comes from social workers and charity workers who actually meet and talk to the the homeless on the streets and also from those managing the hostels.

With covid restrictions in full swing those social workers who are employed by the state that would meet the homeless on the street are no longer walking the street themselves, so it would be impossible for them to report any homeless unless they were contacted by phone.
A lot of the hostels are closed or running with reduced capacity. Obviously the numbers of homeless people that they report as staying or being assisted at a hostel is down too.
There are still charity worker patrolling the street trying to aid the homeless and these do report the numbers they find. But they cant patrol every street, every park or every location the homeless might use.

The homeless didnt disappear into thin air, they are still on the street just not in contact with government social workers, charity workers or hostel staff as they once were.

So even if the government is genuinely not trying to massage figures, (and there is no evidence that that are), the figures the government are getting will obviously be much lower than reality due to lack of contact because of covid restrictions.

So all you can say at best is the homeless numbers 'appear' to be at a four year low, but the reality is they could equally be at an all time high. You can't make neither statement because the data is totally unreliable.

It is a fact, the numbers come from Focus Ireland and has been falling every month since Feb. Sorry to burst you monologue.

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

..and how much wealth are mnc's extracting in order to maximize share holder value? we urgently need a bigger share of this wealth, requesting a small amount of their current revenue in stocks and shares wouldnt upset their business model too much. it would be an indirect way of receiving more of the wealth created, it would give us more skin in the game, so to speak, sovereign wealth funds are commonly used globally for such purposes, norway comes to mind, in regards the use of its fossil fuels reserves.

in fairness, the political left are lost on this one, particular parties such as sf, ive always had issues with mnc's, after spending a few years working for one, and seeing how they treat some people, even some of my previous managers agree with me, the company i worked for, has never made a profit in its 40 years of operations here, according to its books!

in regards selling our data, tell them, if you want to collect our data, you have to pay for it, and maybe give them the option of paying via stocks and shares in their companies, and again utilize swf's from there to redistribute the wealth generated from the fund. that idea is political scientists mark Blyths, he explains it in his new book, angrynomics, probably worth a read if you want more info on how this could be done

You do realise we are a country of 5 million people, why the f**k would they pay for our data when the rest of the World has no problem handing it over?

Plus you do realise all those T&C you never read but signed means you probably have sold you data 10-100 times already for nothing :-)

I think you need to go back to drawing board on this

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realise we are a country of 5 million people, why the f**k would they pay for our data when the rest of the World has no problem handing it over?

Plus you do realise all those T&C you never read but signed means you probably have sold you data 10-100 times already for nothing :-)

I think you need to go back to drawing board on this one :-)

Also, you have forgotten the whole GDPR which we have all signed up to :-) that’s another minor issue

Seriously, selling our data:-) just read this thread for an example of our “data”

so the idea of a respected political scientist of effectively selling data to tech companies is a bad idea, since they already acquire it for free, and then sell it on, is a bad idea? im sorry, but i ll stick with blyths opinion to be honest, and id also agree with his opinion that, 'austerity never ever works'! yea im definitely sticking with blyths opinions

McMurphy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Poor man is devastated and all you can think of is political points. Serious grow up

What an idiotic response, yes the poor man is devastated, do you know why?


Go on shef..... Have a guess..........

Something to do with political decisions.......... (He says so in his interview)



You can do it, I can smell that grey matter starting to work.........

I guess you could say the poor devastated man is trying to score a political point in mentioning how the govt fcuked up not inspectors to check to meat processing plants.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Its funny how the perpetual detractors will ignore the numbers and facts when they go the wrong way, even though you said earlier, homelessness was getting worse, but you were wrong of course, its getting better.

Once again, incorrect assumptions.
Never denied numbers were down, explained why.
Also if the problems are the same but worse year on year why would anyone change from pointing it out?
Even with the exception of the current global pandemic, numbers have gotten worse over the past several years.
You are making excuses and fudging.
When Covid subsides we'll see a return.
It's very dishonest to point to the situation during a pandemic and suggest its FG policy or something finally kicking in lowering the numbers, after several years of breaking records in the opposite direction.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

It is a fact, the numbers come from Focus Ireland and has been falling every month since Feb. Sorry to burst you monologue.

Why?

Number of homeless people drops below 10,000 amid Covid-19 measures

“We know that there are many individuals and families who were on the brink of homelessness who have been supported to remain in their home due to the moratorium on evictions for the duration of the crisis. Once the health crisis eases, we need to ensure that there are preventative supports in place to help these families and individuals stay out of homeless emergency accommodation.”

Similarly, Focus Ireland chief executive Pat Dennigan said the fall in the number had been “widely predicted” not just because of the anti-eviction measures but also the number of Airbnb lettings coming back onto the rental market.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-people-drops-below-10-000-amid-covid-19-measures-1.4242217

If these same 'charity industry' organisations said numbers were up they'd be dismissed of course. That's hypocrisy for you.

JohnnyFlash

McMurphy wrote: »

What an idiotic response, yes the poor man is devastated, do you know why?


Go on shef..... Have a guess..........

Something to do with political decisions.......... (He says so in his interview)



You can do it, I can smell that grey matter starting to work.........

I guess you could say the poor devastated man is trying to score a political point in mentioning how the govt fcuked up not inspectors to check to meat processing plants.

You can smell his brain starting to work???

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You can smell his brain starting to work???

Through the internet? It's a figure of speech john don't be thick.

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

It is a fact, the numbers come from Focus Ireland and has been falling every month since Feb. Sorry to burst you monologue.

Focus Ireland are a charity who produced a report.
Focus Ireland can only report the people they assist. Or homeless who are known to have sought help from another charity or government office.

The clue was in the title of the report.

Number of people who are homeless AND relying on emergency homeless accommodation
https://www.focusireland.ie/resource-hub/latest-figures-homelessness-ireland/

So your opinion is that if someone sleeps on a street, in a park, or some whether other than a hostel or emergency accommodation provided by the government they are not homeless.
Are you for real?

Focus Ireland can only report the people they assist. They cannot provide information for those that haven't sought shelter or assistance. Many of the homeless refuse offers of hostel accommodation because of safety issues, theft, and obviously the risk of covid infection.
So would it be fair to say that those who slept on the street, in a park or elsewhere for the last few weeks were not included in the homeless figures despite obviously being homeless?

Shefwedfan

McMurphy wrote: »

What an idiotic response, yes the poor man is devastated, do you know why?


Go on shef..... Have a guess..........

Something to do with political decisions.......... (He says so in his interview)



You can do it, I can smell that grey matter starting to work.........

I guess you could say the poor devastated man is trying to score a political point in mentioning how the govt fcuked up not inspectors to check to meat processing plants.

Take it easy on that keyboard

I’m talking about you....

Everyone seen that interview, only some people would use it on this forum as some sort of points scoring exercise

You can probably smell it because .....well work it out yourself :-)

smurgen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Take it easy on that keyboard

I’m talking about you....

Everyone seen that interview, only some people would use it on this forum as some sort of points scoring exercise

You can probably smell it because .....well work it out yourself :-)

Era ye lads literally blamed the family of a dead man for the turnout of his funeral. Heart bleeds for ye.

McMurphy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Take it easy on that keyboard

I’m talking about you....

Everyone seen that interview, only some people would use it on this forum as some sort of points scoring exercise

You can probably smell it because .....well work it out yourself :-)

" Everyone has seen that interview" - shef basically acknowledging the video has garnered a lot of people talking about it.

Video has a business owner in county Kildare, distraught because he feels the govt have let him and his industry down by failing to send inspectors to meat processing plants "despite all the warnings".

I link to this video that has garnered a lot of attention, in a thread (wait for it)........ About the govt the business owner feels has let him down....

And I'm discussing it to score a political point. Silly me, I should have discussed it in a different forum, perhaps fashion and appearance or planning and construction obviously.

That's the rock to cling to when points cannot be countered obviously.

Some lads need to engage the brain before they type out their scutter.

Shefwedfan

McMurphy wrote: »

" Everyone has seen that interview" - shef basically acknowledging the video has garnered a lot of people talking about it.

Video has a business owner in county Kildare, distraught because he feels the govt have let him and his industry down by failing to send inspectors to meat processing plants "despite all the warnings".

I link to this video that has garnered a lot of attention, in a thread (wait for it)........ About the govt the business owner feels has let him down....

And I'm discussing it to score a political point. Silly me, I should have discussed it in a different forum, perhaps fashion and appearance or planning and construction obviously.

That's the rock to cling to when points cannot be countered obviously.

Some lads need to engage the brain before they type out their scutter.

Blah blah blah

Go outside and enjoy the sun would ya....spouting around on this thread 24 x 7 desperate to post anything which is critical of the government

All talk and no answers, similar to the party you support.

If all you care about when people are dying and business are closing is about how you can post about it on a forum you have a serious issue. These are people. Not something you should be rolling around in glee becuse you can post it here

Cop yourself on for once