FF/FG/Green Next Government

Itssoeasy

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Yesterday I would have been fairly confident that this agreement would sail through the membership ratification process in Fianna Fáil and the Green Party. Today, I'm not as confident. Fianna Fáil representatives close to the leadership seem to be somewhat rattled by the no campaign in their own party, with one TD suggesting the Russians are behind it. I mean, that's just desperate stuff altogether and comes across as somewhat unhinged to me.

Then tonight we have the likes of the Green Party Finance Spokesperson Neasa Hourican, who is a heavy hitter in the party and well regarded amongst the membership, essentially coming out against the deal. It's all not as rosey as the spin machines led us to believe it was last night.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1272999967880290304

I'm the same as yourself. I mean it was a programme for government with three parties so it was clear that none of the three would get everything they wanted because that's the nature of a coalition. I hadn't realised that the Green Party needed a 2/3rds majority which kind of lowered my hope because that's a high bar(maybe it should be that high ) and there seemed to be almost instant rumblings of unhappiness from the Green Party membership.

That FF line about Russian shows how rattled the FF leadership are although surely in a party with 15,000 members they expected some people voting against it.

_Kaiser_

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm the same as yourself. I mean it was a programme for government with three parties so it was clear that none of the three would get everything they wanted because that's the nature of a coalition. I hadn't realised that the Green Party needed a 2/3rds majority which kind of lowered my hope because that's a high bar(maybe it should be that high ) and there seemed to be almost instant rumblings of unhappiness from the Green Party membership.

That FF line about Russian shows how rattled the FF leadership are although surely in a party with 15,000 members they expected some people voting against it.

At least the Greens and FF are getting a vote. FG have their voting system setup so that the majority of their own members don't seem to count at all - but then we saw that with Leo vs Coveney too.

No surprise then the arrogance and contempt they have for the electorate in general I suppose.

Itssoeasy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

At least the Greens and FF are getting a vote. FG have their voting system setup so that the majority of their own members don't seem to count at all - but then we saw that with Leo vs Coveney too.

No surprise then the arrogance and contempt they have for the electorate in general I suppose.

It's a weighted system which I think was used the first time for that last leadership election. I presume it was the way FF have it. Would it have been better if Simon coveney was Taoiseach ?

dundalkfc10

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It's a weighted system which I think was used the first time for that last leadership election. I presume it was the way FF have it. Would it have been better if Simon coveney was Taoiseach ?

No but you can see what kind of a party they are from it all. Most young people in the country are seeing it and that's what's getting to them

Truthvader

Watching matt cooper on virgin + 1 . Someone calked Nessa from Green Party on. Whatever you think about FF/FG god help them dealing with this ninny for the next x years. Whatever they have done Does anyone deserve this??

Snow Garden

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That's all you have? The IMF were arguably exactly what this country needed after the free for all tiger years. It's just a pity nothing was learned from the experience.

A better question is how FG managed to squander the recovery and leave the place worse than they found it (housing, health care, costs of living to name a few). At least FF knew enough to know you have to give something back some times.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. FG are actually worse than FF. Never elected except as a protest vote, only until they remind us why that is, and only until they've rehabilitated FF in the process.

It's happened before. It's happening again.

Spot on. Fine Gael blew the opportunity of a lifetime in 2011 for real reform. They had the numbers while there was no credible opposition. They blew it spectacularly with Enda at the helm.

FG Seats 2011 = 76
FG Seats 2016 = 50
FG Seats 2020 = 35

Jinglejangle69

Snow Garden wrote: »

Spot on. Fine Gael blew the opportunity of a lifetime in 2011 for real reform. They had the numbers while there was no credible opposition. They blew it spectacularly with Enda at the helm.

FG Seats 2011 = 76
FG Seats 2016 = 50
FG Seats 2020 = 35

Cool.

So they blew it.

They got rinsed in the election.

When can we move on?

FrancieBrady

Snow Garden wrote: »

Spot on. Fine Gael blew the opportunity of a lifetime in 2011 for real reform. They had the numbers while there was no credible opposition. They blew it spectacularly with Enda at the helm.

FG Seats 2011 = 76
FG Seats 2016 = 50
FG Seats 2020 = 35

Absolutely. And it is for that the leaders should be remembered. They talk now of finishing FF for good...they had their chance and blew it...by incompetency or design.
I think they know they need FF as both of them were so comfortable pretending they were different. Voting trends show the electorate aren't buying it anymore.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely. And it is for that the leaders should be remembered. They talk now of finishing FF for good...they had their chance and blew it...by incompetency or design.
I think they know they need FF as both of them were so comfortable pretending they were different. Voting trends show the electorate aren't buying it anymore.

Hmm let's not mention yesterdays poll.

But anyway I want FG in opposition.

This new formation is a farce.

_Kaiser_

Not looking great for the Deal

Three party councillors representing Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Green Party have expressed doubts that the programme for government will be passed by their members.

Speaking on RTÉ's Prime Time, Green councillor Lorna Bogue said it will be difficult for this deal to get through their parliamentary party.

"There isn't very much in the way of commitments in this particular deal," she said.

Fianna Fáil councillor Shane Curley echoed this view, and said he waited to read the programme for government, and after doing that, said he cannot stand over it.

He said he struggles to see how it will get through his party.

Fine Gael councillor Jim Finucane said it will be "challenging" to get this programme for government through their members.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0616/1147851-green-party-programme-for-government/

It would appear that none of them are happy with it. Probably for the best if it doesn't pass. If it's like this now, how stable and effective would a Government of all 3 be, especially with the economic aftermath of CV-19 and Brexit still to deal with.

Jinglejangle69

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not looking great for the Deal


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0616/1147851-green-party-programme-for-government/

It would appear that none of them are happy with it. Probably for the best if it doesn't pass. If it's like this now, how stable and effective would a Government of all 3 be, especially with the economic aftermath of CV-19 and Brexit still to deal with.

Fingers crossed.

Feisar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely. And it is for that the leaders should be remembered. They talk now of finishing FF for good...they had their chance and blew it...by incompetency or design.
I think they know they need FF as both of them were so comfortable pretending they were different. Voting trends show the electorate aren't buying it anymore.

Only people who struggle with sixth class maths would vote for SF though.

Edit - sorry apart from those that think in terms of green and orange, which is fair enough.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely. And it is for that the leaders should be remembered. They talk now of finishing FF for good...they had their chance and blew it...by incompetency or design.
I think they know they need FF as both of them were so comfortable pretending they were different. Voting trends show the electorate aren't buying it anymore.

Dont get excited Francie it'll be a long time before any normal person will see the mix of thugs, morons and spoofers in Sinn Fein as the solution to anything

Snow Garden

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Cool.

So they blew it.

They got rinsed in the election.

When can we move on?

When they admit it

Loafing Oaf

Truthvader wrote: »

Watching matt cooper on virgin + 1 . Someone calked Nessa from Green Party on. Whatever you think about FF/FG god help them dealing with this ninny for the next x years. Whatever they have done Does anyone deserve this??

Apparently she is of such stature within the Greens the negotiators had to try to 'Neasa-proof' the deal; doesn't seem to have worked though:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/green-party-td-has-considerable-concerns-over-economic-plan-in-government-deal-1.4280991?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fgreen-party-td-has-considerable-concerns-over-economic-plan-in-government-deal-1.4280991

MerlinSouthDub

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not looking great for the Deal


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0616/1147851-green-party-programme-for-government/

It would appear that none of them are happy with it. Probably for the best if it doesn't pass. If it's like this now, how stable and effective would a Government of all 3 be, especially with the economic aftermath of CV-19 and Brexit still to deal with.

It will definitely be passed by FF and FG. I can’t see how 2/3rds of the Greens will vote for it though. Who knows what happens then!

Leonard Hofstadter

Another election is the only solution. FG should go and capitalise on their current standing with the public and blame FF, Greens, Labour and Soc Dems for not stepping up to the plate if this does not get passed.

I would be very surprised if FG doesn't pass the PfG, I'm much less negative than I was yesterday or the day before now that I have realised that most of the daft things the Greens want are written in such wooly language they're unlikely to be done.

Truthvader

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Apparently she is of such stature within the Greens the negotiators had to try to 'Neasa-proof' the deal; doesn't seem to have worked though:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/green-party-td-has-considerable-concerns-over-economic-plan-in-government-deal-1.4280991?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fgreen-party-td-has-considerable-concerns-over-economic-plan-in-government-deal-1.4280991

Unbleiveably this twit negotiated the deal and then couldn't vote for her own product.

Faugheen

I could actually see Michael D Higgins refusing to dissolve the Dail if it came to it, without any real attempts to talk to Sinn Fein first.

People forget that he has the power to do refuse a dissolution. During a pandemic, I wouldn’t be surprised if he told Leo to ensure every avenue was exhausted before embarking on another campaign.

ninebeanrows

FG setting this one up very well at the moment, let one of other parties down the programme and go to the electorate

FG usually find a way to royally fcuk a sure 1.01 winner into a loser though so watch Varadkar et al, mess things up soon.

Truthvader

Faugheen wrote: »

I could actually see Michael D Higgins refusing to dissolve the Dail if it came to it, without any real attempts to talk to Sinn Fein first.

People forget that he has the power to do refuse a dissolution. During a pandemic, I wouldn’t be surprised if he told Leo to ensure every avenue was exhausted before embarking on another campaign.

Yep because murdering someone is always an option

dundalkfc10

Truthvader wrote: »

Yep because murdering someone is always an option

Oh the togs are brown all over now

This is great to see

ninebeanrows

Faugheen wrote: »

I could actually see Michael D Higgins refusing to dissolve the Dail if it came to it, without any real attempts to talk to Sinn Fein first.

People forget that he has the power to do refuse a dissolution. During a pandemic, I wouldn’t be surprised if he told Leo to ensure every avenue was exhausted before embarking on another campaign.

Is this a for real post? You think the President is going to attempt to get involved in politics and force a Sinn Fein FG coalition.

Assume youre talking through your trousers!

blanch152

Faugheen wrote: »

I could actually see Michael D Higgins refusing to dissolve the Dail if it came to it, without any real attempts to talk to Sinn Fein first.

People forget that he has the power to do refuse a dissolution. During a pandemic, I wouldn’t be surprised if he told Leo to ensure every avenue was exhausted before embarking on another campaign.

Can't see that, as Sinn Fein haven't talked to anyone and made no attempt to form a government.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Dont get excited Francie it'll be a long time before any normal person will see the mix of thugs, morons and spoofers in Sinn Fein as the solution to anything

Well, last time out more people saw them as the solution above FF and FG.

Chew on that.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

What count they got in shows how utterly despised they are and a reflection of their performance in office.

This is right up there with Bowie thinking that Donnybrook was in South Dublin County Council.

Why did they stop teaching Civics in school?

Jinglejangle69

Snow Garden wrote: »

When they admit it

I seem to recall Leo admittimg it at the time and saying they want to go into opposition.

blanch152

Snow Garden wrote: »

Spot on. Fine Gael blew the opportunity of a lifetime in 2011 for real reform. They had the numbers while there was no credible opposition. They blew it spectacularly with Enda at the helm.

FG Seats 2011 = 76
FG Seats 2016 = 50
FG Seats 2020 = 35

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely. And it is for that the leaders should be remembered. They talk now of finishing FF for good...they had their chance and blew it...by incompetency or design.
I think they know they need FF as both of them were so comfortable pretending they were different. Voting trends show the electorate aren't buying it anymore.

I suppose opinion polls don't matter this week, but will probably be back in favour when Sinn Fein get a bounce.

The one message coming loud and clear from the electorate at the moment is that they know which parties will step up to the plate. FG and Greens are up.

dundalkfc10

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Is this a for real post? You think the President is going to attempt to get involved in politics and force a Sinn Fein FG coalition.

Assume youre talking through your trousers!

Did he say FG and SF

FG are the third biggest party, the top 2 might decide why not (Martin will do anything)

Itssoeasy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Apparently she is of such stature within the Greens the negotiators had to try to 'Neasa-proof' the deal; doesn't seem to have worked though:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/green-party-td-has-considerable-concerns-over-economic-plan-in-government-deal-1.4280991?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fgreen-party-td-has-considerable-concerns-over-economic-plan-in-government-deal-1.4280991

She was a negotiator for the Green Party though so there a two tier negotiating team for them then. By that I mean were there two agreements, one which was "neasa proof" and the actual document ? That's a poor state of affairs if that's the case.