FF/FG/Green Next Government

dundalkfc10

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

You don't listen, do you? The councillors will be getting the 8K regardless of whether they back the deal.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/councillors-set-to-get-8000-pay-rise-966872.html

Its impossible to listen to something wrote down

ELM327

antimatterx wrote: »

Which is why it should be adopted as the only income tax method. Add more bands, and more rates, and scrap income tax.

Ideally the tax receipts will be higher accumulatively, but fairer to each person.

No bands, no rates, give tax credits then above that it's subject to X% USC. And that's it.


Percentage/pro rata is inherently fair, as the more you earn the more you pay.

ELM327

Scoundrel wrote: »

USC is one of the most progressive taxes we have i.e the more you earn the more you pay no loopholes etc

Agreed.

dundalkfc10

Scoundrel wrote: »

USC is one of the most progressive taxes we have i.e the more you earn the more you pay no loopholes etc

How it should be

Galwayguy35

Shane Curley the guy on Prime Time last night is our local councillor, holds down a job and does all the work a councillor has to do as well.

Its a fairly thankless job and they have do deal with constituents problems in the same way TDs do for peanuts compared to what a TD makes.

Wouldn't begrudge them the few bob extra TBH.

thegetawaycar

Agreed on most here, USC should be the only form of income tax and progressive as you earn more.

We should also stop taking people out of the tax net, every earner should pay a certain percent based on earnings. Taking 1 third of people earning out of the tax net just means the middle get squeezed further.

The headline on the 8K salary raise is a disgrace, Councillors will be getting a raise no matter who is in government but the framing will be different if it is the harder left government.

"low paid public servants to get deserved increase after X amount of years due to our new left governments hard work"

Snow Garden

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/8000-pay-rise-for-local-councillors-if-they-back-parties-deal-39292254.html

Ah a nice pay rise to get the deal done.

What a country!

They already make a small fortune on expenses, allowances and conferences.

LawBoy2018

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Agreed on most here, USC should be the only form of income tax and progressive as you earn more.

We should also stop taking people out of the tax net, every earner should pay a certain percent based on earnings. Taking 1 third of people earning out of the tax net just means the middle get squeezed further.

The headline on the 8K salary raise is a disgrace, Councillors will be getting a raise no matter who is in government but the framing will be different if it is the harder left government.

"low paid public servants to get deserved increase after X amount of years due to our new left governments hard work"

I would disagree. Nobody benefits from the poor having less money. I would, however, agree with all workers paying a certain amount of tax if a universial basic income was implemented. That would be quite radical for any government to attempt though, making such a proposal unlikely, despite it being mentioned in the PFG.

LawBoy2018

Snow Garden wrote: »

They already make a small fortune on expenses, allowances and conferences.

No they don't? They get 7K in expenses.

Shefwedfan

Snow Garden wrote: »

They already make a small fortune on expenses, allowances and conferences.

Did you read the article?




This would apply to the 279 councillors in Fianna Fáil, 255 in Fine Gael, and 49 in the Green Party, who are all being asked to back the deal, as well as the rest of the State's 949 local authority members.
The planned rise would cost the Exchequer more than €7.5m a year.
The report is also said to recommend a number of reforms, including the ending of unvouched expenses as part of an overhaul of the allowances system which would mirror the one in place for TDs.

Eric Cartman

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

And who were they voting for in hope of attaining that? SF? Greens? SDs?

FG who promised it every election and have delivered nothing, but with no alternative you just keep voting for them in the hopes somebody will actually do it.... its a sad state of affairs.

Truthvader

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

He lost them 15 seats since he was in Charge, Worst election result in over 70 years.

Thats his legacy, Its fact

Hello Fine Gael supporters; he is right you know, no getting away from it. To be fair I don't understand the reasons myself. Thought Varadker and Co did a good job having inherited a bucket of ****. House prices went up because people had more money - hospital was a disaster but in general little to complain about. Keep reading vague references to cronyism and corruption mostly from Finn Fein /PBP supporters but see no evidence or even a specific allegation

Fact remains they were eaten in the election - and by a party glorying in the death of Guards and citizens who ran a rag bag of candidates ranging from the most cruel psychopaths to some who appear mildly mentally handicapped.

dundalkfc10

Truthvader wrote: »

Hello Fine Gael supporters; he is right you know, no getting away from it. To be fair I don't understand the reasons myself. Thought Varadker and Co did a good job having inherited a bucket of ****. House prices went up because people had more money - hospital was a disaster but in general little to complain about. Keep reading vague references to cronyism and corruption mostly from Finn Fein /PBP supporters but see no evidence or even a specific allegation

Fact remains they were eaten in the election - and by a party glorying in the death of Guards and citizens who ran a rag bag of candidates ranging from the most cruel psychopaths to some who appear mildly mentally handicapped.

I can feel your hurt just reading that.

Seamai

I can't say I'm altogether comfortable with 700 Green Party members from Northern Ireland having a say in the party's decision to enter government here in the Republic or not.

RandomViewer

Seamai wrote: »

I can't say I'm altogether comfortable with 700 Green Party members from Northern Ireland having a say in the party's decision to enter government here in the Republic or not.

They depend on SF transfers to get elected, Could be fun

Gloomtastic!

Sums it all up here....

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113761164&postcount=5004



I hope to disengage from Irish politics for the next couple of years. The thought of Mehole Martin as Taoiseach makes me feel quite sick. This country never learns from it's mistakes! :rolleyes:

Patser

Truthvader wrote: »

Hello Fine Gael supporters; he is right you know, no getting away from it. To be fair I don't understand the reasons myself. Thought Varadker and Co did a good job having inherited a bucket of ****. House prices went up because people had more money - hospital was a disaster but in general little to complain about. Keep reading vague references to cronyism and corruption mostly from Finn Fein /PBP supporters but see no evidence or even a specific allegation

Fact remains they were eaten in the election - and by a party glorying in the death of Guards and citizens who ran a rag bag of candidates ranging from the most cruel psychopaths to some who appear mildly mentally handicapped.

I think they made the biggest mistake you can make in Irish politics, they got smug about it. They seemed to think they had it sown up, and the initial debates between Leo and Martin seemed to be entirely - as shure, one of us will get it. Nothing like smugness in Ireland to get a kicking, and I think a lot of SF and Green votes were a protest against that.

I also think that the sudden sharp shock of a true emergency - Covid 19 - has shown to the public the benefits of having an experienced, settled Govt. In comparison to the UK and US with their populist blowhards, Varadkar and Harris have come across cooly and clearly. So that's why imo FG are rocketing up in the polls

dundalkfc10

Patser wrote: »

I think they made the biggest mistake you can make in Irish politics, they got smug about it. They seemed to think they had it sown up, and the initial debates between Leo and Martin seemed to be entirely - as shure, one of us will get it. Nothing like smugness in Ireland to get a kicking, and I think a lot of SF and Green votes were a protest against that.

I also think that the sudden sharp shock of a true emergency - Covid 19 - has shown to the public the benefits of having an experienced, settled Govt. In comparison to the UK and US with their populist blowhards, Varadkar and Harris have come across cooly and clearly. So that's why imo FG are rocketing up in the polls

In comparison to the UK and US, anybody would look good during Covid 19.

I agree on the smugness part, Alot of the votes SF got where because they could see the media and RTEs agenda, keep SF out at all costs. It backfired and will continue too until people realise SF is now one of the top dogs in Irelands politics.

JohnnyFlash

FG supporters would love another election. Bring it on.

thegetawaycar

Patser wrote: »

I think they made the biggest mistake you can make in Irish politics, they got smug about it. They seemed to think they had it sown up, and the initial debates between Leo and Martin seemed to be entirely - as shure, one of us will get it. Nothing like smugness in Ireland to get a kicking, and I think a lot of SF and Green votes were a protest against that.

I also think that the sudden sharp shock of a true emergency - Covid 19 - has shown to the public the benefits of having an experienced, settled Govt. In comparison to the UK and US with their populist blowhards, Varadkar and Harris have come across cooly and clearly. So that's why imo FG are rocketing up in the polls

I think we've seen FG sky rocket in the polls as the probable opposition all headed for the hills and disappeared when COVID kicked in. Other than snippets about keeping all payments of 350 going and Mary Lou stating that decisions should be ran by cross party leaders before being agreed they've been pretty much non existent.

I'd also suggest with some very lean years ahead some/most opposition parties are happy to wait in the long grass and piss and moan about spending cuts while not having to actually make any hard decisions and hope for some form of recovery where they can step in to Govern in 3 or 4 years.

ELM327

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FG supporters would love another election. Bring it on.

For sure.
I'd say conservatively they should gain 1.5x the current number of seats, mostly from FF but some from SF as floating voters won't like how SF disappeared when they should have formed a government

LawBoy2018

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure.
I'd say conservatively they should gain 1.5x the current number of seats, mostly from FF but some from SF as floating voters won't like how SF disappeared when they should have formed a government

In theory maybe but when you actually break down the constituencies, I'd say an extra 10 TDs max. SF would make gains also and FF would lose several big players.

Patser

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I think we've seen FG sky rocket in the polls as the probable opposition all headed for the hills and disappeared when COVID kicked in. Other than snippets about keeping all payments of 350 going and Mary Lou stating that decisions should be ran by cross party leaders before being agreed they've been pretty much non existent.

I'd also suggest with some very lean years ahead some/most opposition parties are happy to wait in the long grass and piss and moan about spending cuts while not having to actually make any hard decisions and hope for some form of recovery where they can step in to Govern in 3 or 4 years.

I actually think that all that was to Ireland's benefit and I'm not going to knock SF/FF or any of the otehrs for it. It was an emergency, a national one - let the Govt lead, let the message be clear - rather than bickering and undermining the,. Especially if they are doing a good job on it. By all means point out shortcomings, but I think collectively Irish politicians acted well. Everyone from every party remained on message, Simon Harris especially was left to spearhead the political response, Tony Holohan was left as non political figurehead.

Kermit.de.frog

What's the gut feeling here?

Will it get passed the members of each party?

RandomViewer

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure.
I'd say conservatively they should gain 1.5x the current number of seats, mostly from FF but some from SF as floating voters won't like how SF disappeared when they should have formed a government

Depends what news sources you were watching/listening to, SF were on local radio, newspapers, national media didn't cover them, will work in their favour

antimatterx

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FG supporters would love another election. Bring it on.

We're gagging for it

antimatterx

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What's the gut feeling here?

Will it get passed the members of each party?

I think the Greens will **** it

RandomViewer

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What's the gut feeling here?

Will it get passed the members of each party?

Depends what percentage of the NI Greens vote

RandomViewer

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

In theory maybe but when you actually break down the constituencies, I'd say an extra 10 TDs max. SF would make gains also and FF would lose several big players.

FF will be the big losers, Martin's desperation to be Taoiseach is embarrassing

JohnnyFlash

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What's the gut feeling here?

Will it get passed the members of each party?

FG will pass it. FF probably will. The Greens won’t.