FF/FG/Green Next Government

Seamai

McMurphy wrote: »

You need to reread my post again, because nowhere within it did I say, or even suggest you voted for the green party.

As for the incontinence jibe, I could make a similar one about reading comprehension issues, but I think you already appear to be upset enough.

My apologies, I did misread it, hope I didn't cause offence with the incontinence remark.

Seamai

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you didn't, then it's none of your business how they structure themselves.

Your only option is to persuade the party you voted for to not deal with them.

Am I not entitled to voice my opinion? You seem to be quite free with yours. That's what a forum is all about.

FrancieBrady

Seamai wrote: »

Am I not entitled to voice my opinion? You seem to be quite free with yours. That's what a forum is all about.

You said this.

I can't see how any right thinking person would think it was acceptable.

Which is your opinion and I told you your options if that is your opinion.

McMurphy

Seamai wrote: »

My apologies, I did misread it, hope I didn't cause offence with the incontinence remark.

Not at all, I actually almost wet myself at it. :pac:

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Slugger says NO :P:P:P:P:P:P


Bowie ^^^^^^ thats a joke

My apologise for taking you seriously. It won't happen again.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

FF are to.my mind essentially the same as FG


Now whether shinners are better or worser,at least its different choice.....

we now have willie odea likely back in cabinet......to me,this isnt progress from,when they ran country over a cliff and proceed to sneet at anyone else as econmic illterate

Cutting off my little finger is not much different that cutting off my ring finger, but I do know that cutting off my head would cause a lot more damage. So much for different choice.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

It is wrong that they have a say in whether the Greens enter government down here.

Are you suggesting although the same party pretty much on jurisdiction should have/does have no bearing on the other? That's not your usual line.

blanch152

Muahahaha wrote: »

Surely if this program for Govt. doesnt pass its then incumbent on Fine Gael and Sinn Fein to sit down and talk. Fine Gael really need to get a bit of maturity and recognise there is now a three party system and from here on in these situations are going to arise election after election.

If the DUP have the maturity to go into government with Sinn Fein it doesnt say much about the maturity of Fine Gael in refusing to even talk to them. The electorate at large couldnt care less for their petty squabbling, it only seems to be the party hacks who are bothered with the school yard games that lead us nowhere.

Hold on, we have been told repeatedly across multiple threads that we can't judge Sinn Fein on their performance in government because the powers are really held in Westminister and it isn't really a government.

If you are correct, then Fine Gael would be free to look at the economic performance of the North, the lack of social freedoms, the abysmal social protection system, the failure of an education system and the logjam of three years without a government and conclude that Sinn Fein really aren't fit for government on that basis.

It is quite difficult to make any argument for Sinn Fein in government, so well done for constructing half an argument.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Are you suggesting although the same party pretty much on jurisdiction should have/does have no bearing on the other? That's not your usual line.

I am saying that the Northern Greens should have no say in whether or not the Greens in the South go into government. That is fully consistent with me saying that Mary-Lou should not be a puppet of the boys in Belfast.

Seamai

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said this.



Which is your opinion and I told you your options if that is your opinion.

Let's put it to bed Francie, I have some baking to do and you of all people should understand the importance of a cake filled house ðŸ˜

James Brown

Muahahaha wrote: »

Surely if this program for Govt. doesnt pass its then incumbent on Fine Gael and Sinn Fein to sit down and talk. Fine Gael really need to get a bit of maturity and recognise there is now a three party system and from here on in these situations are going to arise election after election.

If the DUP have the maturity to go into government with Sinn Fein it doesnt say much about the maturity of Fine Gael in refusing to even talk to them. The electorate at large couldnt care less for their petty squabbling, it only seems to be the party hacks who are bothered with the school yard games that lead us nowhere.

I don't know they can. After forgiving FF for everything and becoming great pals all FG have left is pretending they have morals and inferring issues on why they won't, nae can't, talk to SF.
I'd lose respect for any party dealt with Fine Gael. No point in any party going in with FF/FG at this point we know what they are and no partner will stop them doing more damage. Hopefully their demise quickens.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Why not FF and SF first? You only need to take a quick look around here to see the antipathy that SF supporters have towards FG. Obviously you couldn't have a Shinner as the minister for justice, so then you'd have a blueshirt minister for justice. Things like that.



The dysfunction we see in NI isn't something we should aspire to replicate in the Republic. The Republic is 3rd on the UN Human Development Index behind Switzerland and Norway. It's up to someone else to start ruining that.

TBF, FG ministers for justice have been clownish at best, not to mention FG ministers for housing, health and the party leader. FG only have the pretense of being the 'law and order party' IMO. And they certainly ain't fiscally conservative with 25 year leases and taking the eye off the ball numerous times costing the tax payer. Their credibility relies heavily on delusion.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I am saying that the Northern Greens should have no say in whether or not the Greens in the South go into government. That is fully consistent with me saying that Mary-Lou should not be a puppet of the boys in Belfast.

It's not very consistent with being an informed voter though is it. A bit late in the day to be blaming anybody but yourself.

Shefwedfan

blanch152 wrote: »

Hold on, we have been told repeatedly across multiple threads that we can't judge Sinn Fein on their performance in government because the powers are really held in Westminister and it isn't really a government.

If you are correct, then Fine Gael would be free to look at the economic performance of the North, the lack of social freedoms, the abysmal social protection system, the failure of an education system and the logjam of three years without a government and conclude that Sinn Fein really aren't fit for government on that basis.

It is quite difficult to make any argument for Sinn Fein in government, so well done for constructing half an argument.

One day we can look at the North, tomorrow we can’t. It changes like the wind....

Seemingly they have no control but they still do a full budget every year and go over how they will spend money etc, ok it’s given by UK but they can still spend it how they like. Seemingly that doesn’t matter

They can pass their own laws, that’s doesn’t matter either

It’s a funny old world isn’t it

Bridge93

Do the southern Shinners get a say in events with the Northern Assembly and vice versa? I know the leadership are back and forth but do party members get a say as is happening with the greens here? Genuinely curious.
It never crossed my mind that individuals governed by a different jurisdiction would get a say in domestic matters. Given some Irish citizens abroad aren’t allowed vote in the election it seems odd to me that it’s the case (nationalistic sentiments aside, it is a different jurisdiction with different elective powers to us)

Triangle

Muahahaha wrote: »

Surely if this program for Govt. doesnt pass its then incumbent on Fine Gael and Sinn Fein to sit down and talk. Fine Gael really need to get a bit of maturity and recognise there is now a three party system and from here on in these situations are going to arise election after election.

If the DUP have the maturity to go into government with Sinn Fein it doesnt say much about the maturity of Fine Gael in refusing to even talk to them. The electorate at large couldnt care less for their petty squabbling, it only seems to be the party hacks who are bothered with the school yard games that lead us nowhere.

Do you not see the difference?
The DUP and SF got together, reluctantly after many years of peace talks - to stop the bombings, murders, knee cappings and violence that turned the North into a place needing armoured cars, gates on each street around the city centers and RUC (equivalent of an army) on every street corner.
Edit: not to mention the barracks that the RUC worked out of. There's nothing like a barracks in your neighbourhood to feel safe 🙄

I don't think the same reasons can be applied to FF or FG going into government with SF. It's actually a very good reason NOT to do a deal with them if at all possible.

James Brown

Triangle wrote: »

Do you not see the difference?
The DUP and SF got together, reluctantly after many years of peace talks - to stop the bombings, murders, knee cappings and violence that turned the North into a place needing armoured cars, gates on each street around the city centers and RUC (equivalent of an army) on every street corner.
Edit: not to mention the barracks that the RUC worked out of. There's nothing like a barracks in your neighbourhood to feel safe ��

I don't think the same reasons can be applied to FF or FG going into government with SF. It's actually a very good reason NOT to do a deal with them if at all possible.

What was it Varadkar or whichever charlie apologist said about maturity on the RIC/Tans celebration?
If FG or FF are of the opinion above they have absolutely no right speaking on the GFA, peace process or indeed patting themselves on the back. They already make a sham of it every time they use the troubles as an excuse for wanting it their way, for holding on to power.

if I thought FF/FG might put the country first I'd be hoping their latest works out, but I don't. Sadly the others don't have numbers. Maybe after the next austerity bout, new quangos, cronyism and inevitable tribunals, they might be wiped out. we can only hope.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Cutting off my little finger is not much different that cutting off my ring finger, but I do know that cutting off my head would cause a lot more damage. So much for different choice.

Meh.....any rethoric vs shinners is pretty much word for word,what i heard in 2007 from ff about fg

And we all know,how that ended up

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

I am saying that the Northern Greens should have no say in whether or not the Greens in the South go into government. That is fully consistent with me saying that Mary-Lou should not be a puppet of the boys in Belfast.

Except greens is an established fact

Where as your conspiracy theory surronding.belfast control of SF,is em well just that

rubbledoubledo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF would be better than independents

Totally agree about the independents.
Serving no purpose

Triangle

Bowie wrote: »

What was it Varadkar or whichever charlie apologist said about maturity on the RIC/Tans celebration?
If FG or FF are of the opinion above they have absolutely no right speaking on the GFA, peace process or indeed patting themselves on the back. They already make a sham of it every time they use the troubles as an excuse for wanting it their way, for holding on to power.

if I thought FF/FG might put the country first I'd be hoping their latest works out, but I don't. Sadly the others don't have numbers. Maybe after the next austerity bout, new quangos, cronyism and inevitable tribunals, they might be wiped out. we can only hope.

Well I'm not a FF or FG fan. But I also don't think SF will put the people before their agenda of a united Ireland unfortunately.

rubbledoubledo

Muahahaha wrote: »

Surely if this program for Govt. doesnt pass its then incumbent on Fine Gael and Sinn Fein to sit down and talk. Fine Gael really need to get a bit of maturity and recognise there is now a three party system and from here on in these situations are going to arise election after election.

If the DUP have the maturity to go into government with Sinn Fein it doesnt say much about the maturity of Fine Gael in refusing to even talk to them. The electorate at large couldnt care less for their petty squabbling, it only seems to be the party hacks who are bothered with the school yard games that lead us nowhere.

Spot on

Edgware

is_that_so wrote: »

The Green members need to have the reality of walking spelt out to them.They can learn compromise or have their principles intact from opposition after a new election. FG certainly won't care care either way.

Exactly. No party in a coalition gets everything but if not in power you get nothing

political analyst

If the coalition deal is not accepted by the membership of at least one of the three parties, is there a Plan B for renewal of the Offences Against the State Act?

FF, FG, Labour and right-leaning independent TDs (e.g. Lowry, McGrath) would still vote in favour of renewal of the Act. Does that mean that they could still form a temporary emergency government to ensure that the Taoiseach's nominees for the Seanad can take their seats and thus have the Act renewed?

It would be a calamity if the Special Criminal Court's foundation disappeared overnight.

James Brown

Triangle wrote: »

Well I'm not a FF or FG fan. But I also don't think SF will put the people before their agenda of a united Ireland unfortunately.

Whether you are or not is irrelevant. Speaking on the comment you made.
I hope not. I'd expect SF would be pushing for a UI. All parties should be IMO. A more noble agenda than looking after pals, although I'd expect there'd be that too. It's just FF/FG can't talk up their roles in the peace process then talk like it never happened depending on how high SF are in the polls that day or if MLMD asked Varadkar a question he didn't care to answer.

FrancieBrady

political analyst wrote: »

If the coalition deal is not accepted by the membership of at least one of the three parties, is there a Plan B for renewal of the Offences Against the State Act?

FF, FG, Labour and right-leaning independent TDs (e.g. Lowry, McGrath) would still vote in favour of renewal of the Act. Does that mean that they could still form a temporary emergency government to ensure that the Taoiseach's nominees for the Seanad can take their seats and thus have the Act renewed?

It would be a calamity if the Special Criminal Court's foundation disappeared overnight.

Well now we are on the UN Security Council for 2 years maybe we should take on board the UN's Human Rights Commission's criticism of the SCC and have a look at getting rid of it? They might let us stay for good?

Muahahaha

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Why not FF and SF first? You only need to take a quick look around here to see the antipathy that SF supporters have towards FG. Obviously you couldn't have a Shinner as the minister for justice, so then you'd have a blueshirt minister for justice. Things like that.

The dysfunction we see in NI isn't something we should aspire to replicate in the Republic. The Republic is 3rd on the UN Human Development Index behind Switzerland and Norway. It's up to someone else to start ruining that.

I couldnt care less if it is FF-SF or FG-SF. Im more making the point that there is a three party system now and it is incumbent on all three of the big parties to recognise that because no-one is getting anywhere near a majority on their own. So this stuff of parties saying before elections 'We're not going with that lot or that other lot' is the stuff of teenage discos and is completely immature.

I said it directly after the election that with the returned seats the best outcome for Ireland would have been a FG-SF government with FG hanging onto finance and expenditure and SF looking after housing and health. Thats nothing against FF, more so their problem is there is a lack of talent on their front bench.

Irish parties need to grow up and stop listening to their party hacks, many of whom are living in the past. The electorate at large couldnt care less about their petty cross party squabbles, they just want to see stable government. Behind the scenes Leo and Mary Lou actually get on pretty well and could work productively together for the benefit of the country. Yet here we are 120 odd days in and still no government. If this program doesnt pass we're looking at a September election with a good chance of broadly the same result of three big parties. Then we're back to square one all over again and at that stage we will have no government for 8 months. We dont want to end up like Belgium so parties here need to put the past in the past and deal with the here and now.

JohnnyFlash

Very bad mood music coming from some of the more vocal FF cumanns down in places like Cork North-West, Sligo-Leitrim, Galway East is what I'm hearing this evening. The FF cumann structure never really recovered after the election in 2011, but the feeling at the moment is that the voice of the member on the ground isn't being heard by HQ.

Martin certainly didn't do as good a job in reviving the FF constituency structures as Enda Kenny did when he took over the FG leadership. The FG party structures down the sticks are very strong in comparison, and are in rude health in the Big Smoke.

Martin will need to sell this to his party very quickly, and look out for the stalking horses coming around his flank.

CrankyHaus

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Very bad mood music coming from some of the more vocal FF cumanns down in places like Cork North-West, Sligo-Leitrim, Galway East is what I'm hearing this evening. The FF cumann structure never really recovered after the election in 2011, but the feeling at the moment is that the voice of the member on the ground isn't being heard by HQ.

Martin certainly didn't do as good a job in reviving the FF constituency structures as Enda Kenny did when he took over the FG leadership. The FG party structures down the sticks are very strong in comparison, and are in rude health in the Big Smoke.

Martin will need to sell this to his party very quickly, and look out for the stalking horses coming around his flank.

What would challengers propose as an alternative strategy for FF?
Another election, another confidence and supply deal, coalition with SF?

Loafing Oaf

CrankyHaus wrote: »

What would challengers propose as an alternative strategy for FF?
another confidence and supply deal,

Pretty sure not that:P