FF/FG/Green Next Government

Yurt2

Truthvader wrote: »

Those damned delicate FG types. Why cant they just get ever themselves and just forget about all the murders bombings and mutilation of children. The miserable stuck up bastards

Boogeyman politics. You don't care a jot for victims of the troubles of any stripe.

Yurt2

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

When Mary Lou put to MM that people are not looking mortage breaks forever, they should last through the pandemic and other European Countries have offered longer breaks than Ireland and the issues over D'Arcy's new big job.

In his response MM stated, SIPO not been able to investigate SF fundrasising overseas worries him.

That is all you need to know about FF

Both FF and FG hold fundraisers in the UK. What precisely is the difference I wonder? That SF raise more?

I'm aware that regulation (law?) is that overseas donations may only come from Irish nationals, but are FF and FG seriously making the case that they are doing due diligence on the nationality of attendees at their overseas fundraisers and they are turning away people at exclusive hotels in London? Come off it. This is bogus stuff from Martin.

Floppybits

Yurt! wrote: »

Both FF and FG hold fundraisers in the UK. What precisely is the difference I wonder? That SF raise more?

I'm aware that regulation (law?) is that overseas donations may only come from Irish nationals, but are FF and FG seriously making the case that they are doing due diligence on the nationality at their overseas fundraisers and they are turning away people at exclusive hotels in London on the basis of their nationality? Come off it. This is bogus stuff from Martin.

The way supporters of FF and FG go on you swear that the 2 parties were whiter than white.

Martin is right in that SIPO should be checking on all this and all party donations should be scrutinized. You would swear that FF and FG are whiter than white when it comes to funding and looking at things now you would have to ask yourself are FG in the pockets of the banks like FF were in the pockets of the developers.

Truthvader

Yurt! wrote: »

Boogeyman politics. You don't care a jot for victims of the troubles of any stripe.

I know. If only I had the love and concern for others of Mary Lou or Dessie Ellis or any of the rest of them.

Yurt2

Truthvader wrote: »

I know. If only I had the love and concern for others of Mary Lou or Dessie Ellis or any of the rest of them.

You can say what you want about Sinn Fein, and there is a lot to say about all the actors in the multi-sided conflict in the North, there were very few angels when you look back through the years.

But the reality is the are one of the most important parties at the coalface trying to make the institutions and society work up there, with a mandate of hundreds of thousands of people in their communities that they represent. Crow all you want, that's the reality.

The Good Friday Agreement is a punchline to you and your ilk, and the Troubles are reduced to a political stick to beat political opponents. The conflict is fading into the rear-view mirror of history, but for some reason that makes you mad.

The parties and the communities up there are the people making peace, not foghorns down south that are trembling at an alternative political force. I sometimes think that status-quo political interests in the south pang for the conflict to come back so their neo-Eoghan Harris-style tactics would actually make a modicum of sense.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Those damned delicate FG types. Why cant they just get ever themselves and just forget about all the murders bombings and mutilation of children. The miserable stuck up bastards

They more or less ignored it when it was happening and it is 'only' a concern now when SF need to be taken down a peg or two.

Nobotty

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

When Mary Lou put to MM that people are not looking mortage breaks forever, they should last through the pandemic and other European Countries have offered longer breaks than Ireland and the issues over D'Arcy's new big job.

In his response MM stated, SIPO not been able to investigate SF fundrasising overseas worries him.

That is all you need to know about FF

A lot of countries don't allow foreign donations including GB and the USA
That chap in Wales who donated all that money in his will to Sinn Féin was a foreigner and not even qualifying for Irish citizenship,he was English
Sinn Féin got nearly 2.5 million Euros from him which legitimately explains a lot of their property
I do think money for parties should come only from the parties own country and that money should have been donated to the homeless or something

Apparently the man involved was deranged

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50409211

smurgen

FG are the party of white collar crime.

Floppybits

smurgen wrote: »

FG are the party of white collar crime.

And Tax avoidance.

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

A lot of countries don't allow foreign donations including GB and the USA
That chap in Wales who donated all that money in his will to Sinn Féin was a foreigner and not even qualifying for Irish citizenship,he was English
Sinn Féin got nearly 2.5 million Euros from him which legitimately explains a lot of their property
I do think money for parties should come only from the parties own country and that money should have been donated to the homeless or something

Apparently the man involved was deranged

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50409211

Eh, no it doesn't, the property was obtained well before that, in the years after December 2004.

Yurt2

Nobotty wrote: »

A lot of countries don't allow foreign donations including GB and the USA
That chap in Wales who donated all that money in his will to Sinn Féin was a foreigner and not even qualifying for Irish citizenship,he was English
Sinn Féin got nearly 2.5 million Euros from him which legitimately explains a lot of their property
I do think money for parties should come only from the parties own country and that money should have been donated to the homeless or something

Apparently the man involved was deranged

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50409211

I'd be happy for SIPO to take a good look at all donations originating outside of Ireland. Something tells me none of the main parties will come out of it smelling like roses.

As mentioned, FF and FG have held quite public fundraisers in the UK and have done so stretching back many years. Haven't googled it, but I'd say the likelihood of them having done ones in the US is probably quite high as well. We'd be codding ourselves to think foreign money from non-Irish nationals wasn't in the mix across the board.

Truthvader

smurgen wrote: »

FG are the party of white collar crime.

Good man. Keep throwing random vague accusations

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, no it doesn't, the property was obtained well before that, in the years after December 2004.

Have you a list of these properties and prices paid? and when?
There is an outfit called the CAB more than willing to work on your list and evidence:)

McMurphy

They make it too easy to be fair

https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1310921125547966464?s=19

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They more or less ignored it when it was happening and it is 'only' a concern now when SF need to be taken down a peg or two.

Not true. Huge efforts were put into trying to halt the killing by all parties save those invested in it. What did you want "Free State" governments to do that they failed to do??

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Not true. Huge efforts were put into trying to halt the killing by all parties save those invested in it. What did you want "Free State" governments to do that they failed to do??

Don't be bull****ting today of all days. The Bloody Sunday victims group where more or less ignored since their loved ones were shot on the streets of Derry and in their pursuit of justice.

Yeh FG and FF were past masters at the condemnation, whatever good that did.

Not the thread to discuss what they should have done, suffice to say simpering silence abandoned people they had a duty to. A duty they are only too happy to rush to for photoshoots when the GFA is going well or receiving praise.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't be bull****ting today of all days. The Bloody Sunday victims group where more or less ignored since their loved ones were shot on the streets of Derry and in their pursuit of justice.

Yeh FG and FF were past masters at the condemnation, whatever good that did.

Not the thread to discuss what they should have done, suffice to say simpering silence abandoned people they had a duty to. A duty they are only too happy to rush to for photoshoots when the GFA is going well or receiving praise.

As usual no substantive response save the usual Sinn Fein leakage of hatred. Condemnation of murder is a proper response and though it achieved little it did not contribute to the sick campaign of death and suffering that achieved nothing.

Floppybits

Truthvader wrote: »

Good man. Keep throwing random vague accusations

What like the money was only resting the Michael Martins wife account. Get way outta that.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

As usual no substantive response save the usual Sinn Fein leakage of hatred. Condemnation of murder is a proper response and though it achieved little it did not contribute to the sick campaign of death and suffering that achieved nothing.

Achieved nothing for you. Tragically there were those who had no choice.
They were abandoned by the official Irish state.
Now they are at the gates and the official state has very little left in it's armoury only a hypocritical and onesided blame game. It failed at the last election and has failed since.

Change the record.

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

Have you a list of these properties and prices paid? and when?
There is an outfit called the CAB more than willing to work on your list and evidence:)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/police-raid-iras-30m-property-portfolio-317813.html

Reading between the lines of this article, you can see that a softly, softly approach was later taken in respect of this portfolio, but it certainly exposes the lie that this property was only recently acquired and references the link to December 2004.

"An IRA "property portfolio" worth some £30m in domestic and business properties, including hundreds of apartments, is under investigation by the Assets Recovery Agency."

"The IRA was said to have invested in properties and businesses worth millions in both parts of Ireland and overseas, possibly in Bulgaria, and last year it stole £26m in a Belfast bank robbery"

Before you respond, I don't believe the nonsense that SF and the IRA were separate organisations.

"

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Achieved nothing for you. Tragically there were those who had no choice.
They were abandoned by the official Irish state.
Now they are at the gates and the official state has very little left in it's armoury only a hypocritical and onesided blame game. It failed at the last election and has failed since.

Change the record.

John Hume and many many thousands, even hundreds of thousands of others chose another route.

The nonsense that there was no choice is an insult to the decent people of Northern Ireland who refused to have any truck with the child-killers and child-abusers of the IRA.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

John Hume and many many thousands, even hundreds of thousands of others chose another route.

The nonsense that there was no choice is an insult to the decent people of Northern Ireland who refused to have any truck with the child-killers and child-abusers of the IRA.

Hume failed politically until he responded to an invitation to talk to Adams. Mallon refused to take that initiative.

Both of them (Hume and Mallon) were getting nowhere, nobody was. So I would contend that their choice was the wrong one too.
Or a better view of my opinion would be there was no 'right' choice. Just survival and attempting to change the sectarian bigoted statelet.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Achieved nothing for you. Tragically there were those who had no choice.
They were abandoned by the official Irish state.
Now they are at the gates and the official state has very little left in it's armoury only a hypocritical and onesided blame game. It failed at the last election and has failed since.
E
Change the record.

Again the big Sinn Fein lie. Everyone had a choice. Only a select few chose murder and criminality.

Still no idea what you wanted the "Free State" to actually do.

Change the record indeed

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

John Hume and many many thousands, even hundreds of thousands of others chose another route.

The nonsense that there was no choice is an insult to the decent people of Northern Ireland who refused to have any truck with the child-killers and child-abusers of the IRA.

You don't care about Loyalist terrorism. We get it.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hume failed politically until he responded to an invitation to talk to Adams. Mallon refused to take that initiative.

Both of them (Hume and Mallon) were getting nowhere, nobody was. So I would contend that their choice was the wrong one too.
Or a better view of my opinion would be there was no 'right' choice. Just survival and attempting to change the sectarian bigoted statelet.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Achieved nothing for you. Tragically there were those who had no choice.
They were abandoned by the official Irish state.
Now they are at the gates and the official state has very little left in it's armoury only a hypocritical and onesided blame game. It failed at the last election and has failed since.

Change the record.

Which is it?

There was no choice or Hume took the wrong choice?

The story changes with every post, just so that Sinn Fein can be defended at all costs.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

You don't care about Loyalist terrorism. We get it.

The old strawman arguments resurfaces. What has loyalist terrorism got to do with people having no choice but to support the kneecapping of their friends or the kidnapping of women, which in both cases were carried out by members of their own community?

smurgen

Great point here. https://twitter.com/ElaineByrne/status/1310919486153818112?s=19

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/police-raid-iras-30m-property-portfolio-317813.html

Reading between the lines of this article, you can see that a softly, softly approach was later taken in respect of this portfolio, but it certainly exposes the lie that this property was only recently acquired and references the link to December 2004.

"An IRA "property portfolio" worth some £30m in domestic and business properties, including hundreds of apartments, is under investigation by the Assets Recovery Agency."

"The IRA was said to have invested in properties and businesses worth millions in both parts of Ireland and overseas, possibly in Bulgaria, and last year it stole £26m in a Belfast bank robbery"

Before you respond, I don't believe the nonsense that SF and the IRA were separate organisations.

"

I presume since that article is over 15 years old,you can provide us with the results of the investigation, who are the registered owner's of the properties mentioned, whether that is now Sinn Féin and again as I asked firstly,evidence of any CAB investigation into the property in the south etc cognisant maybe of the very strict money laundering rules financial institutions have here and of course the Revenue's need for tax clearance certs

dundalkfc10

They have left Blanch alone to fight the Govt's corner today.

Id say he is disgusted that the Green Govt's Minister for Transport has done nothing to stop expressway services to citys around Ireland, meaning more people will have to drive. Eamonn must have been asleep when this was put to him same as the time with his vote in the dail when he wasasleep.

I would say what happened here is when he woke to the question of do you have any objections, he said no def not.

Can be no other explanation

Sorry if thats off topic on the "FF/FG/Green Next Government" thread

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Which is it?

There was no choice or Hume took the wrong choice?

The story changes with every post, just so that Sinn Fein can be defended at all costs.

Some had the luxury of choice, others had no choice.

No country is a homogeneous nirvana of people all in the same situation blanch.