FF/FG/Green Next Government

Yurt2

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Yurt was talking to the Green Party members in his head.

Give it a rest you droning bore.

I've been talking to several over the past few days, including two who were on the ticket for national election. FG is coming unstuck because like your posting style, FG as a party are fundamentally objectionable and arrogant.

You want to form a government? Show some respect for the partners you're courting instead of calling them stupid and thinking it's your right to steamroll them.

You actually think this is the way to get a coalition off on the right footing?

The entire FG apparatus from top to bottom needs to go away and have a chat with itself.

Yurt2

Water John wrote: »

The ratio of speakers addressing the Green convention was about 2:1 in favour of the deal. The vote will probably be close but throwing up nonsense like this. It has about as much value as if Trump said it.

The speakers aren't the party as a whole as I'm sure you'll appreciate. What I'm hearing is that it's not a popular deal and even those leaning in favour of it, there's a lot of holding of the nose.

JohnnyFlash

FG members would like nothing more than for people like Saoirse McHugh and the rest of the dream catcher wing of the Greens to reject this.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Can't understand this argument. Absolutely beyond me how any decent person would vote for them in the first place But to be fair they are not choosing not to govern. No-one will have anything to do with them.

You could say the same of FF or FG. Actually wasn't long ago FG were saying the same about FF.
Pretending FG or FF have issue over anything other than their own selfishness is a farce. Amateur dramatics nobody is buying.
If it were PBP or the SD's in their position we'd be hearing how stupid or communist the electorate were. Respect democracy and don't be so personal toward people likely have voted FG previously.

Yurt2

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FG members would like nothing more than for people like Saoirse McHugh and the rest of the dream catcher wing of the Greens to reject this.

Who are you going to shack up with? The rest of the Oireachtas doesn't trust you, and you're in for another nasty shock at the polling booth btw.

JohnnyFlash

Yurt! wrote: »

Who are you going to shack up with? The rest of the Oireachtas doesn't trust you, and you're in for another nasty shock at the polling booth btw.

Wouldn’t be so sure about that, my friend.

Could be time for all the Hot Air parties to put on their trousers and do a bit of work instead of being the increasingly tiresome voices of cheap platitudes about change.

Play a bit of county hurling, lads.

Yurt2

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Wouldn’t be so sure about that, my friend.

Could be time for all the Hot Air parties to put on their trousers and do a bit of work instead of being the increasingly tiresome voices of cheap platitudes about change.

Play a bit of county hurling, lads.

FG is running out of road. Despite you're hubris, you don't want another election. Lord of the Ring quotes don't butter parsnips. You could find yourself "the idiot from a small party" sooner than you think.

JohnnyFlash

Yurt! wrote: »

FG is running out of road. Despite you're hubris, you don't want another election. Lord of the Ring quotes don't butter parsnips. You could find yourself "the idiot from a small party" sooner than you think.

Why would I say another election would be great if I didn’t mean it. I think you’re letting your hatred of FG get to you, dude. They are living rent free inside your head, and Leo was up all night at a house party.

blanch152

Yurt! wrote: »

Who are you going to shack up with? The rest of the Oireachtas doesn't trust you, and you're in for another nasty shock at the polling booth btw.

If you analyse it, the best outcome for Fine Gael would be to have both Fianna Fail and the Greens reject the Programme for Government while Fine Gael accepts it.

An election would be inevitable, and Fine Gael would put the Programme up there as their election manifesto. The Greens and Fianna Fail couldn't really attack it because they negotiated it, Mary-Lou has already said that bits of it were robbed from Sinn Fein so she can't do the full attack on it.

The election would be FG saying we are up for doing stuff, the others are just up for cribbing about it. With so many out of jobs, and wondering what is going to happen, there would a huge surge to FG.

That wouldn't be a good result for the country and I fear the Greens suffering badly as a result, but only one party is offering a plan.

JohnnyFlash

SF should announce they are about to harvest the first bumper crop from the forest of Money trees they planted a few years back.

Yurt2

blanch152 wrote: »

If you analyse it, the best outcome for Fine Gael would be to have both Fianna Fail and the Greens reject the Programme for Government while Fine Gael accepts it.

An election would be inevitable, and Fine Gael would put the Programme up there as their election manifesto. The Greens and Fianna Fail couldn't really attack it because they negotiated it, Mary-Lou has already said that bits of it were robbed from Sinn Fein so she can't do the full attack on it.

The election would be FG saying we are up for doing stuff, the others are just up for cribbing about it. With so many out of jobs, and wondering what is going to happen, there would a huge surge to FG.

That wouldn't be a good result for the country and I fear the Greens suffering badly as a result, but only one party is offering a plan.

I have to laugh, if that's FG's election strategy you better get your aloe vera now to sooth the burns coming your way.

Toot toot! Clever hard working boys coming through!

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If you analyse it, the best outcome for Fine Gael would be to have both Fianna Fail and the Greens reject the Programme for Government while Fine Gael accepts it.

An election would be inevitable, and Fine Gael would put the Programme up there as their election manifesto. The Greens and Fianna Fail couldn't really attack it because they negotiated it, Mary-Lou has already said that bits of it were robbed from Sinn Fein so she can't do the full attack on it.

The election would be FG saying we are up for doing stuff, the others are just up for cribbing about it. With so many out of jobs, and wondering what is going to happen, there would a huge surge to FG.

That wouldn't be a good result for the country and I fear the Greens suffering badly as a result, but only one party is offering a plan.

What if that 'PFG' is viewed the same as FG's manifesto going into the last election? i.e. something only 20% of the electorate want?

you are assuming that the majority of the electorate are in favour of what it's negotiators call a 'wishlist' when we don't know what they think of it.

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

My!
Isn't that handy how you know several green party members

Cool the jets, I know a few myself, they're only members of the green party after all, it's not like they're members of the Yakuza or the Bratva ffs.

JohnnyFlash

Might be a good idea for SF to start talking to the other parties in case this PfG is rejected. The alternative government.

SF, Soc Dems, Labour, Greens, Loonies, Independents.

JohnnyFlash

McMurphy wrote: »

Cool the jets, I know a few myself, they're only members of the green party after all, it's not like they're members of the Yakuza or the Bratva ffs.

Or the Army Council, Murph. Mysterious and shady figures from West Belfast.

TCDStudent1

Bridge93 wrote: »

I don’t get the Greens not agreeing to it. They are a small party who will never in a million years get in by themselves to execute their aspirations. This is literally the most power and concessions they will ever get from any combination of government. Yet some believe it’s not enough. Surely some of your objectives is better than the only alternative which is none.

Unless of course they know this and only ever want to be on the other side of the fence whinging rather than having to take action and getting shown up

You could have argued the same the last time they entered government. However, then they had to deal with a recession etc. and were close to being wiped out in the subsequent election. There is probably an argument for them to stay out of government now, try to build on what they have and be stronger in next election when they have more money available etc. to implement their policies.

Truthvader

Deleted User wrote: »

I used birmingham.6 as an.example of group with more evidence and still ended innocent


IMO its outlived its use,the troubles are over,this lad wasnt even charged on explosives conspiracy,despite claims it was a bomb componant??

With all.the modern surrveilance,forensics and intelligence gathering ability,they should have to come up,with more evidence than what was presented here imo.....


Its lunacy locking people up,with what seems to me,near on zero evidence......whats to.stop.gaurds doing this to anyone else?

Reprehensible beliefs as seems case here,shouldnt be cause to imprision someone,its just pure wrong

Conveniently forgetting of course that the Court of Appeal reviewed the evidence on appeal and... see earlier posts.

As ever the Sinn Fein IRA never ending thirst for "justice and accountability" when a "lad with a pipe with a hole in it" (ie a bomb component) is caught and convicted (not once but twice by 6 Judges) can be compared to the lies evasion and cover up when any question of their accountability arises.

AND off we go. "But sure Gerry was never in the IRA...….. why rake up the past...… that action was not officially sanctioned.....it wasn't us it was the bold kids (dissidents)….we have all suffered... that poor lad only had a pipe with a hole in it etc etc world without end amen"

fenris

I think another election is the only real answer if we are to act like a functioning democracy rather than cobbling together the best of a bad lot, who will in turn be either crucified by the public or back-stabbed by their fair weather partners.

I doubt that there are many people out there that honestly feel that the current crop are in any way relevant to their daily lives, the petty squabbling and flexing in front of the camera of the last few months was quite ridiculous and only served to point out that the "electoral crisis" is well and truly here and there is nobody that was actually elected making decisions.

This is not a good thing and allows the void in elected leadership to be filled with bureaucratic overreach and apathy, bad enough in the good times, utterly criminal in these times.

Poor_old_gill

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FG members would like nothing more than for people like Saoirse McHugh and the rest of the dream catcher wing of the Greens to reject this.

Do people on here actually view Saoirse McHugh as a credible, rational, realistic politician?

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Cool the jets, I know a few myself, they're only members of the green party after all, it's not like they're members of the Yakuza or the Bratva ffs.

Green candidate (not elected) here totally rejected the PfG last night and encouraged others to reject it.

JohnnyFlash

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Do people on here actually view Saoirse McHugh as a credible, rational, realistic politician?

There’s always people who fall for them, Gill. Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan and Mick Wallace represent us in Europe for God’s sake. Some people seem to like that antiestablishment, shouting is leadership, disheveled appearance thing.

The reality is a sizeable percentage of the electorate are really fücking stupid.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Cool the jets, I know a few myself, they're only members of the green party after all, it's not like they're members of the Yakuza or the Bratva ffs.

Happen to know a couple of councillors and a TD myself from the Green Party. Was talking to one of them day before yesterday, he believes it will get over the line.

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Or the Army Council, Murph. Mysterious and shady figures from West Belfast.

It's the other mysterious and shady figures from the north that might ultimately throw a spanner in the works here John.

At least they'll be environmentally green recycled spanners.

I can honestly say that the best chortle I have ever gotten from reading these boards (15years on here) - none have surpassed the one I got the other evening when I read a poster who regularly pontificates through threads loudly exclaiming about the Ra and how people from Belfast should have no interference or sway in our political system, masquerading as a "Green party voter", have to eat crow and publicly admit that the same Green party they've been pretending to vote for - have members north of the border (some might even be in Belfast John) who will have a say in this govt formation, and between the northern members and youth wing, might put a halt to the whole thing.


You couldn't make sh1t like that up John, you really couldn't.:D

blanch152

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Do people on here actually view Saoirse McHugh as a credible, rational, realistic politician?

The Green supporters on here don't, but the Shinners do. Then again, they believe Violet and Reada are great people. Saoirse may have failed to get elected, be a snowflake but I'd still take her over the other two any day.

JohnnyFlash

McMurphy wrote: »

It's the other mysterious and shady figures from the north that might ultimately throw a spanner in the works here John.

At least they'll be environmentally green recycled spanners.

I can honestly say that the best chortle I have ever gotten from reading these boards (15years on here) - none have surpassed the one I got the other evening when I read a poster who regularly pontificates through threads loudly exclaiming about the Ra and how people from Belfast should have no interference or sway in our political system, masquerading as a "Green party voter", have to eat crow and publicly admit that the same Green party they've been pretending to vote for - have members north of the border (some might even be in Belfast John) who will have a say in this govt formation, and between the northern members and youth wing, might put a halt to the whole thing.


You couldn't make sh1t like that up John, you really couldn't.:D

I’m hoping the Northern members of the Green Party are as enthusiastic with the word no as everyone else is up there, Murph, if I’m being honest with you. Hopefully that legendary Nordie intransigence is on display.

Poor_old_gill

blanch152 wrote: »

The Green supporters on here don't, but the Shinners do. Then again, they believe Violet and Reada are great people. Saoirse may have failed to get elected, be a snowflake but I'd still take her over the other two any day.

You know the way people think that Trump is not mentally stable, well McHugh...

People like her are just standing in the way of a credible Green Party coming about - complete nonsense peddler - communes FFS

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’m hoping the Northern members of the Green Party are as enthusiastic with the word no as everyone else is up there, Murph, if I’m being honest with you. Hopefully that legendary Nordie intransigence is on display.

If I were FG, I wouldn't be getting caught rubbing my hands in glee that others are facilitating you getting an election you cannot be blamed for.

Like Leo's rants and moral high ground admonitions...that could backfire spectacularly on youse.

I'd imagine suspicions are high across the electorate that political games are being played with this process.

mollser

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

You could have argued the same the last time they entered government. However, then they had to deal with a recession etc. and were close to being wiped out in the subsequent election. There is probably an argument for them to stay out of government now, try to build on what they have and be stronger in next election when they have more money available etc. to implement their policies.

Good to know that the green issues, which apparantly was an imminent global disaster, can all of a sudden wait for 5 years while the green party get a few more votes. Is that it?? Weird and very amateurish way of thinking

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’m hoping the Northern members of the Green Party are as enthusiastic with the word no as everyone else is up there, Murph, if I’m being honest with you. Hopefully that legendary Nordie intransigence is on display.

€100 riding on a second election in 2020 at 2-1 and €48 odd (Paddy power capped the stake for some reason) on C.M being green leader come Jan 21 too at 5/4.

I'm not exactly a gambler either John, (odd flutter on grand national/Cheltenham perhaps) but it seemed like too good odds to pass up.

FrancieBrady

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

You know the way people think that Trump is not mentally stable, well McHugh...

People like her are just standing in the way of a credible Green Party coming about - complete nonsense peddler - communes FFS

Growing salad in de window box...kinda 'credible'?


The green agenda will be dealt with by other parties imo, in response to European rules and to what the electorate increasingly want. There will be no need for a Green party anymore.