FF/FG/Green Next Government

FrancieBrady

Snow Garden wrote: »

Kenny never ran rings around anyone in the Dail. He never gave a straight answer and spent most of his time in the Dail without a credible or sizable opposition. FG/Lab had a massive majority and the 20 TDs FF had left were afraid to open their mouths. Kenny had poor leadership, zero vision and achieve very little given the opportunity he had.

Kenny was infamous for deflection and had to be kept away from the mics and cameras whenever a vote approached. The same tactic was used to keep Harris and Murphy away from mics during the last election campaign.

LawBoy2018

Lorna Bogue absolutely tearing into FG on Tonight VMTV, you love to see it...

_Kaiser_

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kenny was infamous for deflection and had to be kept away from the mics and cameras whenever a vote approached. The same tactic was used to keep Harris and Murphy away from mics during the last election campaign.

Enda would also frequently disappear when the latest controversy or scandal gathered pace, only to then reappear after a week or so and proclaim there was nothing to see here.

is_that_so

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Lorna Bogue absolutely tearing into FG on Tonight VMTV, you love to see it...

One should always take the view of councillors with a large pinch of salt. Few people vote for them and they tend to be extremely full of their own importance. Seems like she's been doing this for quite a while anyway.

McMurphy

Faugheen wrote: »

I could actually see Michael D Higgins refusing to dissolve the Dail if it came to it, without any real attempts to talk to Sinn Fein first.

People forget that he has the power to do refuse a dissolution. During a pandemic, I wouldn’t be surprised if he told Leo to ensure every avenue was exhausted before embarking on another campaign.

Just drop this in here. Not a bad prediction after all Faugh.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/president-higgins-will-not-allow-dail-to-disband-if-programme-for-government-fails-1006801.html

However, the parties believe President Higgins will not accede to such a request in light of the ongoing pandemic restrictions.

Such a failure could allow Fine Gael bow out of consideration, having tried to form a government. It could also force Fianna Fáil to open talks with Sinn Féin, as two of the three large parties would be needed to form a government.

Seamai

is_that_so wrote: »

Mark Ruffalo says yes to government!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/hollywood-actor-mark-ruffalo-backs-greens-going-into-government-39305509.html

I kinda fancy Mark Ruffalo but he should butt out and mind his own business.

Podge_irl

Refusing a dissolution because of the pandemic does not "force" anything except for the govt to stay on in their roles. FG will never go into govt with SF so there is no earthly reason to talk to them.

is_that_so

Podge_irl wrote: »

Refusing a dissolution because of the pandemic does not "force" anything except for the govt to stay on in their roles. FG will never go into govt with SF so there is no earthly reason to talk to them.

I think FG will conclude that they are done if this doesn't happen. It could also stretch to September with little hope of success. At that point it'll probably be a new election.


EDIT: Judging by Martin's comments, FF have no Plan B either. The pressure is on the Greens.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0623/1149053-government-formation/

blanch152

is_that_so wrote: »

I think FG will conclude that they are done if this doesn't happen. It could also stretch to September with little hope of success. At that point it'll probably be a new election.


EDIT: Judging by Martin's comments, FF have no Plan B either. The pressure is on the Greens.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0623/1149053-government-formation/

I think that other parties are panicking at the thought of an election handing significant gains to FG. The last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well.

Taking the chance on unproven upstarts is never a sensible option in times of crisis and some of the smaller parties have realised this.

FF are the ones with most to lose though. FG can walk away, saying we tried, and if there is an election, gain seats. FF will lose seats, no matter what happens, and if the Greens vote no, there will be huge pressure on them to go in with SF and the PBP.

is_that_so

blanch152 wrote: »

I think that other parties are panicking at the thought of an election handing significant gains to FG. The last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well.

Taking the chance on unproven upstarts is never a sensible option in times of crisis and some of the smaller parties have realised this.

FF are the ones with most to lose though. FG can walk away, saying we tried, and if there is an election, gain seats. FF will lose seats, no matter what happens, and if the Greens vote no, there will be huge pressure on them to go in with SF and the PBP.

I agree. Even if they drop some of that COVID support bump, they will pick up seats and be a better magnet for a new government.
Many of smaller parties and Independents are tied together in that if enough of their vote goes to the likes of FG, the seat count would drop quite a bit. SF would also be faced with an interesting conundrum, to hold what they have or gamble that they can return more TDs. That could backfire for them and it could be a disaster for all the other smaller groupings hoping for SF transfers to get them over the line.

_Kaiser_

blanch152 wrote: »

I think that other parties are panicking at the thought of an election handing significant gains to FG. The last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well.

Taking the chance on unproven upstarts is never a sensible option in times of crisis and some of the smaller parties have realised this.

FF are the ones with most to lose though. FG can walk away, saying we tried, and if there is an election, gain seats. FF will lose seats, no matter what happens, and if the Greens vote no, there will be huge pressure on them to go in with SF and the PBP.

Oh come on. The reason we're IN this situation is because FG did NOT govern well.

- A Taoiseach more concerned with his personal bucket list and social media profile
- Pissing away the "Recovery" to where things like housing and health are even worse
- Constant scandals under Enda particularly
etc...

FG have only themselves to blame for their election results. They've done well under Covid (from a ratings perspective) but I dare say similar results would be seen if FF had been in. FG handed it all over to Dr Tony anyway sure - but Leo got to quote some movies and win a bet so all good right? :rolleyes:

Once the hysteria of Covid abates some more, people will soon remember why FG lost so many seats a few months ago.

FrancieBrady

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Oh come on. The reason we're IN this situation is because FG did NOT govern well.

- A Taoiseach more concerned with his personal bucket list and social media profile
- Pissing away the "Recovery" to where things like housing and health are even worse
- Constant scandals under Enda particularly
etc...

FG have only themselves to blame for their election results. They've done well under Covid (from a ratings perspective) but I dare say similar results would be seen if FF had been in. FG handed it all over to Dr Tony anyway sure - but Leo got to quote some movies and win a bet so all good right? :rolleyes:

Once the hysteria of Covid abates some more, people will soon remember why FG lost so many seats a few months ago.

It's all the fault of the pesky ungrateful unwashed is what the FG fans want to say I think.
Covid has brought them to their senses apparently.

LawBoy2018

is_that_so wrote: »

One should always take the view of councillors with a large pinch of salt. Few people vote for them and they tend to be extremely full of their own importance. Seems like she's been doing this for quite a while anyway.

She's definitely one to watch down the line imo, she did very well in a tough constituency in February.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's all the fault of the pesky ungrateful unwashed is what the FG fans want to say I think.
Covid has brought them to their senses apparently.

You think lots of things, Francis.

Not the fault of the long suffering readers around here that you most of your thoughts are incorrect.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You think lots of things, Francis.

Not the fault of the long suffering readers around here that you most of your thoughts are incorrect.

Oh yeh yer honour?

I give you this as proof:

blanch152 wrote:

The last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well.

Taking the chance on unproven upstarts is never a sensible option in times of crisis and some of the smaller parties have realised this.

StackSteevens

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Lorna Bogue absolutely tearing into FG on Tonight VMTV, you love to see it...

Look at me Lorna certainly loves the limelight!

She probably hopes that the profile will help her to find a job when (if) she eventually leaves UCC and joins the real world.

Water John

is_that_so wrote: »

I think FG will conclude that they are done if this doesn't happen. It could also stretch to September with little hope of success. At that point it'll probably be a new election.


EDIT: Judging by Martin's comments, FF have no Plan B either. The pressure is on the Greens.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0623/1149053-government-formation/

MM has no Plan B, but FF have. MM will step aside and FF will do a deal with SF. What's their choice, go for a GE with 14% in the polls?

Truthvader

Water John wrote: »

MM has no Plan B, but FF have. MM will step aside and FF will do a deal with SF. What's their choice, go for a GE with 14% in the polls?

This could well be the case

Jimmy Garlic

Did Comrade Eamon expand anymore on his idea to release wolves in the Wicklow mountains etc? I’d say he watched Jurassic Park a few times too many, total looper.

LawBoy2018

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Did Comrade Eamon expand anymore on his idea to release wolves in the Wicklow mountains etc? I’d say he watched Jurassic Park a few times too many, total looper.

It would obviously be radical, but I would actually agree with him. I don't think Irish people are ready for such a conversation though, hence the onslaught of criticism/abuse he received following his comments.

Read this article about how wolves being introduced to Yellowstone did wonders for biodiversity and the habitats therein.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140128-how-wolves-saved-a-famous-park#:~:text=In%201995%2C%20however%2C%20wolves%20were,effect%20went%20far%20beyond%20that.

statesaver

So, 800 Greens in Northern Ireland will have a huge say if this country gets a new government or not.

Madness.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I think that other parties are panicking at the thought of an election handing significant gains to FG. The last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well.

Taking the chance on unproven upstarts is never a sensible option in times of crisis and some of the smaller parties have realised this.

FF are the ones with most to lose though. FG can walk away, saying we tried, and if there is an election, gain seats. FF will lose seats, no matter what happens, and if the Greens vote no, there will be huge pressure on them to go in with SF and the PBP.

Link?

FrancieBrady

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

It would obviously be radical, but I would actually agree with him. I don't think Irish people are ready for such a conversation though, hence the onslaught of criticism/abuse he received following his comments.

Read this article about how wolves being introduced to Yellowstone did wonders for biodiversity and the habitats therein.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140128-how-wolves-saved-a-famous-park#:~:text=In%201995%2C%20however%2C%20wolves%20were,effect%20went%20far%20beyond%20that.

Wait until the wolves are ateing the salad out of your window box...then you'll be sorry.

is_that_so

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

She's definitely one to watch down the line imo, she did very well in a tough constituency in February.

Probably outside the party if she continues to voice her opinion. Cutting loose in such a manner like that is a crowd pleaser but poor politics.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Link?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll

The changes in this opinion poll far exceed the margin of error.

As a result, they conclusively demonstrate that "the last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well."

If you need me to take you through the individual figures and explain them to you, I am happy to do so, if you point out where you believe they contradict my written statement.

Brussels Sprout

is_that_so wrote: »

One should always take the view of councillors with a large pinch of salt. Few people vote for them and they tend to be extremely full of their own importance. Seems like she's been doing this for quite a while anyway.

Lorna Bogue's first act as a sitting councillor, last year, was to suggest that the meetings of cork city council have an irish Sign language signer for the benefit of any deaf people who might want to watch from the public gallery.

Brussels Sprout

statesaver wrote: »

So, 800 Greens in Northern Ireland will have a huge say if this country gets a new government or not.

Madness.

Apparently, only 100 of them registered to vote on the PfG.

StackSteevens

statesaver wrote: »

So, 800 Greens in Northern Ireland will have a huge say if this country gets a new government or not.

Madness.

Presumably the same would apply if Sinn Fein and the rest of the Irish left managed to cobble a programme for government together.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll

The changes in this opinion poll far exceed the margin of error.

As a result, they conclusively demonstrate that "the last few months have taught the electorate the value of having a government that governs well."

If you need me to take you through the individual figures and explain them to you, I am happy to do so, if you point out where you believe they contradict my written statement.

I do have a few questions.
It's accepted polls can be hit or miss, but let's take this as solid.
If you view this poll as proof positive FG did a great job and the public appreciate it, what's your view on the election results showing FG losing seats and practically every other party gaining? Is this the electorate showing they are displeased with FG?
Also in either case which one is the public being fooled or stupid? Both, none? The one FG did poorly in? Just looking for some consistency Blanch.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I do have a few questions.
It's accepted polls can be hit or miss, but let's take this as solid.
If you view this poll as proof positive FG did a great job and the public appreciate it, what's your view on the election results showing FG losing seats and practically every other party gaining? Is this the electorate showing they are displeased with FG?
Also in either case which one is the public being fooled or stupid? Both, none? The one FG did poorly in? Just looking for some consistency Blanch.

Simple answer.

In the general election campaign, people were surrounded by noise and competing voices and false narratives and fake promises of change as well as silly social media campaigns.

The singular focus on the coronavirus crisis has helped people to look at what actually happens in government, how leaders respond under pressure, and what they do. It was very unusual, because it is extremely rare that single events affect everyone to that extent - arguably never in Ireland since independence - and that has allowed for people to see better than ever how government works.