FF/FG/Green Next Government

Podge_irl

Bowie wrote: »

I've no issue with using private hospitals.
Who has stated that as a fact, what's their idea of cost price and to what is it compared to/how is it set?

Says who? Who is running it? Will the results be made public?

Of course they won't be made public. The cost price of a private enterprise is private information for a reason. But they will be audited by a third party auditing company. Unless you are accusing the likes of KPMG, or whoever ends up doing the audit, of being corrupt then what on earth is your problem? They are not just throwing out a number and the govt just going with it.

The claim here is that there is corruption, not just in government but in auditing firms also. I mean it happens - look at Enron - but its a pretty big bloody claim based on essentially nothing whatsoever.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You didn't even know what a vulture fund was. I doubt you are more qualified to Simon Harris

I likely am. A girl new to Boards was confused and no matter how often is was described to her she kept repeating the same question. Got her banned actually. One mans cuckoo fund is another mans vulture fund. One mans accidental landlord is another mans TD landlord.
By the way vulture fund isn't a real name it's a term some people use to describe the nature of an entity coming in to pick off the misery of the Irish housing market.
But again, more 'deflection' from yourself.

I criticised Ireland's call, explained why and offered ways it could have been better.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you don't know either.

Where people in both parties guilty of thieving and killing in the past, during a period of conflict/war? Yes there was.

The passing of time seems to be the only degree of separation to me.

I do know. The answer to your question was "no".

The time travel argument is pretty thick even by Sinn Fein standards of double think and twisty turny excuses and justifications for criminals still waking about and indeed being elected

James Brown

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

That's a bit harsh - at the time we were looking at Italy and France where they were completely overwhelmed and making decisions around who to treat and who to just let die. Nobody knew how bad it was going to get. Be thankful we only had to use 111 people, that is a good thing and a reflection of how well we flattened the curve

Better to be looking at it than looking for it!

The intent seems sound but by the way they organised it it seems like it was more PR than anything IMO.

James Brown

Podge_irl wrote: »

Of course they won't be made public. The cost price of a private enterprise is private information for a reason. But they will be audited by a third party auditing company. Unless you are accusing the likes of KPMG, or whoever ends up doing the audit, of being corrupt then what on earth is your problem? They are not just throwing out a number and the govt just going with it.

The claim here is that there is corruption, not just in government but in auditing firms also. I mean it happens - look at Enron - but its a pretty big bloody claim based on essentially nothing whatsoever.

So we wont know.

I never claimed corruption. I've claimed FG are awful at making deals for the tax payer. Why is guessing. I'll just say Mr. O'Brien always comes out on top, and its generally Mr. O'Brien getting the sweet deal.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

I do know. The answer to your question was "no".

The time travel argument is pretty thick even by Sinn Fein standards of double think and twisty turny excuses and justifications for criminals still waking about and indeed being elected

If you vote FG are you an admirer of Fascists like FG councilor O'Leary, a fascist apologist or okay with glassing people in the face if they argue with you about Irish Water, (former FG TD Conlon)? Now these are silly loaded questions I'll grant you but on par with your banter.
I could say same about FF. Theres a laundry list ffs..
In short people generally vote for what policies might be followed if said party is successful. I would have thought this was commonplace.
Looking for reasons to smear or ridicule people because they didn't vote how you'd like is petty.

JohnnyFlash

Bowie wrote: »

So we wont know.

I never claimed corruption. I've claimed FG are awful at making deals for the tax payer. Why is guessing. I'll just say Mr. O'Brien always comes out on top, and its generally Mr. O'Brien getting the sweet deal.

This is conspiracy theory stuff, dude. If you can find any sort of 'chink in the armour' that involves Denis O'Brien (in his volcano base) managing to overcome the tedious and laborious processes involving the awarding of State contracts then you should make it available to your local TD or willing journalist.

The EU/OJ journal, civil servants or semi-state employees reviewing the tender bids, oversight by the Comptroller and Auditor General, oversight committees in the Oireachtas. How is this being circumvented so O'Brien can be awarded favourable State contracts?

Blow all this wide open.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

I do know. The answer to your question was "no".

The time travel argument is pretty thick even by Sinn Fein standards of double think and twisty turny excuses and justifications for criminals still waking about and indeed being elected

Who are the 'criminals' still walking about?

You do realise there was a conflict/war here that the Irish government and the British government negotiated a settlement to and to which all signed up to.

Both parties have conflict and war in their pasts in which they killed and committed what were criminal acts at the time.
What is 'thick' about that fact?

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

This is conspiracy theory stuff, dude. If you can find any sort of 'chink in the armour' that involves Denis O'Brien (in his volcano base) managing to overcome the tedious and laborious processes involving the awarding of State contracts then you should make it available to your local TD or willing journalist.

The EU/OJ journal, civil servants or semi-state employees reviewing the tender bids, oversight by the Comptroller and Auditor General, oversight committees in the Oireachtas. How is this being circumvented so O'Brien can be awarded favourable State contracts?

Blow all this wide open.

Its not dude. Point to one conspiracy theory in my post?
We know he gets a lot of contracts we know the tax payer gets rode. No conspiracy dude.
We'll see if the sitserv investigation bears any fruit. Dude.

The fact that my mentioning what happens sparks the idea or corruption and conspiracy with you and others says more than you'd like dude.

I'd say awarding preferred bidder status might have helped on the broadband one dude.

Jinglejangle69

Bowie wrote: »

Its not dude. Point to one conspiracy theory in my post?
We know he gets a lot of contracts we know the tax payer gets rode. No conspiracy dude.
Well see if the sitserv investigation bears any fruit. Dude.

I'd say awarding preferred bidder statusmight gave helped on the broadband one dude.

Wonder why you were made a mod then a month later told you weren't needed.

Always questions we never will get the answers for.

All above board.

Oh sorry i almost forgot..

Dude.

dundalkfc10

So at the weekend it's possibly Leo will have led FG into their worst election in decades and then decided join up with FF (who he said should never be allowed in Govt again)to keep SF out and will have failed in that too

What a leader

Jinglejangle69

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

So at the weekend it's possibly Leo will have led FG into their worst election in decades and then decided join up with FF (who he said should never be allowed in Govt again)to keep SF out and will have failed in that too

What a leader

Hopefully not.

Another election is needed.

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Wonder why you were made a mod then a month later told you weren't needed.

Always questions we never will get the answers for.

All above board.

Oh sorry i almost forgot..

Dude.

Why do you lads always try make it personal? #veryvaradkar
You're quite wrong by the way. Dude.

Truthvader

Bowie wrote: »

If you vote FG are you an admirer of Fascists like FG councilir O'Leary, a fascist apologist or okay with glassing people in the face if they argue with you about Irish Water, (former FG TD Conlon)? Now these are silly loaded questions I'll grant you but on par with your banter.
I could say same about FF. Theres a laundry list ffs..
In short people generally vote for what policies might be followed if said party is successful. I would have thought this was commonplace.
Looking for reasons to smear or ridicule people because they didn't vote how you'd like is petty.

Thanks for the stupid comparison. Conlon is no longer a member of Fine Gael. Contrast the glorification of thuggery by Finn Fein - even assuming there is any comparison between a one off act of violence reulting in a minor injury and a premeditated career of criminality of the most depraved kind

dundalkfc10

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Hopefully not.

Another election is needed.

FF last night open up door to SF if pfg dosnt pass, Greens tonight open door

SF/FF/Greens

Leo will literally not be able to cope. His legacy done/gone, go down as worst FG leader ever

Jinglejangle69

Bowie wrote: »

Why do you lads always try make it personal? You're quite wrong by the way. Dude.

Whats personal about what I said?

You're constantly throwing accusations against FG and their supporters that they look down on people and don't care about them and dont care if they are homeless and poor etc etc.

You throw the accusations every day.

You get personal everyday.

Don't get upset now, you're in too deep.

Jinglejangle69

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FF last night open up door to SF if pfg dosnt pass, Greens tonight open door

SF/FF/Greens

Leo will literally not be able to cope. His legacy done/gone, go down as worst FG leader ever

And why aren't you discussing this new possible arrangement?

I have never come across posters who hate Leo so much yet talk about nothing else except Leo no matter what.

Bizarre.

dundalkfc10

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And why aren't you discussing this new possible arrangement?

I have never come across posters who hate Leo so much yet talk about nothing else except Leo no matter what.

Bizarre.

Ah you ok Pet. The "lads" from Belfast be running us soon

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Thanks for the stupid comparison. Conlon is no longer a member of Fine Gael. Contrast the glorification of thuggery by Finn Fein - even assuming there is any comparison between a one off act of violence reulting in a minor injury and a premeditated career of criminality of the most depraved kind

The sillyness was the point.
If you think any voter must reconcile themselves with anything outside of party policy you must not vote.

I see you're making excuses for GBH now Father?

robwen

If Green's vote against going into government & then FF & FG go to independents & get enough of them to form a government do FF go back to their membership again to have a vote on going into government?

James Brown

robwen wrote: »

If Green's vote against going into government & then FF & FG go to independents & get enough of them to form a government do FF go back to their membership again to have a vote on going into government?

I would assume the FF parliamentary party would decide if it warranted it. FG would have been the big one. The Greens are just seat fillers to them I'd imagine.

JohnnyFlash

Bowie wrote: »

Its not dude. Point to one conspiracy theory in my post?
We know he gets a lot of contracts we know the tax payer gets rode. No conspiracy dude.
We'll see if the sitserv investigation bears any fruit. Dude.

The fact that my mentioning what happens sparks the idea or corruption and conspiracy with you and others says more than you'd like dude.

I'd say awarding preferred bidder status might have helped on the broadband one dude.

All you need to do is point out one State contract awarded to anyone (not even Dinny) which went outside the extraordinary (and onerous) controls put in place to ensure there's no corruption involved.

You can't do that though, dude.

All piss and vinegar.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

All you need to do is point out one State contract awarded to anyone (not even Dinny) which went outside the extraordinary (and onerous) controls put in place to ensure there's no corruption involved.

You can't do that though, dude.

All piss and vinegar.

Again, you are asking me to prove a claim I've not made. Dawg.

Tokyo

Mod: Jinglejangle69, Bowie - quit it with the childish sniping. Next post directed at the other will result in a threadban.

KyussB

I find it extremely odd how the no.1 most important issue with the Greens deal with FF/FG, has been buried over the past week.

The Greens are agreeing to (what will most likely be) an austerity coalition - since in just 2/2.5 years, they have agreed that budget-balancing will occur - and there is a very high chance the economic conditions at that time, will result in austerity.

This is 100% incompatible with Green policies. It is not possible to run a genuine green platform, on austerity politics - because green policies that actually arrest climate change, must result in gigantic levels of net-government-spending - largely because the private sector has proven inadequate, in both the R&D and types economic activity required, to arrest emissions in a timely manner.

If the Green party go into this coalition, they stand for massive increases in regressive taxation - without any meaningful progressive redistribution of government spending...

This means the primary goal of the Green Party, will be in massively accelerating increases in wealth inequality - even at the expense of tackling climate change. Accelerating wealth inequality first, tackling climate change second/third/fourth (if even...).

That appears to be what they stand for, despite a decent number of noble objectors within their party. If the Green Party go ahead with this coalition, they should be permanently disbanded by their members, their councillors, and their TD's - and a Progressive Green Party formed, which will never succumb to austerity politics.

NovemberWren

@KyussB. don't know what you are talking about there; but, is not the whole future idea, a tightening of the Euro.
A problem is, they will draw down non-interest loans; and invest them for themselves in their wealthy builder/investor/farming/medical areas. they really are in it for their own generational, massive, financial security; i.e. just hand one of your houses to your daughter. no prob.
(f.f.) are not remotely bothered by the populace; they buy their own private security, and invest their euros in panopticon surveillance and intimidation and manipulation of people, [sheepeople]?

dundalkfc10

4 years ago the Govt launched Rebuilding Ireland

At the time, the median sales price for new homes was €250,000 nationally.

At end of 2019, The median price of a new home is €335,000.

And people want us to believe the new Govt (led by the same clowns) is going to fix things

The Irish Times Newspaper for those looking a link

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I disagree completely.
You never heard of FG O'Leary, who admired the blueshirts in a tweet the other week, so had you ever voted FG, (;)) would that have made you an uniformed voter? I'm sure there's many FG fascist admirers or a SF 'RA head neither of us know about. Maybe a few Greens too?
Are you suggesting each voter get a personnel profile from party HQ HR of every party member or affiliate before voting? Would Varadkar have even met every FG member? Are you taking the piss?

No, I am not suggesting tha you should know about each and every councillor or member, but you should take careful note of who is controlling a particular party.

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

4 years ago the Govt launched Rebuilding Ireland

At the time, the median sales price for new homes was €250,000 nationally.

At end of 2019, The median price of a new home is €335,000.

And people want us to believe the new Govt (led by the same clowns) is going to fix things

The Irish Times Newspaper for those looking a link

Are you sure?
I link this.

https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-prices-flatline-myhome-4951062-Jan2020/#:~:text=Feedback%20on%20%E2%80%9CThe%20cost%20of,house%20is%20now%20%E2%82%AC267%2C000%E2%80%9D.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Are you sure?
I link this.

https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-prices-flatline-myhome-4951062-Jan2020/#:~:text=Feedback%20on%20%E2%80%9CThe%20cost%20of,house%20is%20now%20%E2%82%AC267%2C000%E2%80%9D.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/programme-for-government-wrong-to-put-faith-in-private-builders-1.4286542