360M euro per year to be spent on cycling and walking infrastructure

Ferris

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Nah, Motorbikes don't count! :P

I deserved that.....

Chips Lovell

11km in half an hour is an average speed of 22kph, not 33kph

Springy Turf

Chips Lovell wrote: »

11km in half an hour is an average speed of 22kph, not 33kph

11km in 20 minutes is 33kph.
11km in 25 minutes is 26.4kph

I was responding to the point about 11km being possible in 20-25 mins (which it is, but would be unusually fast for commuting)

Chips Lovell

Springy Turf wrote: »

11km in 20 minutes is 33kph.
11km in 25 minutes is 26.4kph

I was responding to the point about 11km being possible in 20-25 mins (which it is, but would be unusually fast for commuting)

Apologies. I'd misread it and thought he'd said 30 minutes. Yes, 33kph is very fast for a bike commute.

d15ude

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All well and good to paint up more cycle lanes with a few plastic traffic wands, however the biggest issue for most people apart from Safety is when you get to work you need a secure place to lock your bike with CCTV, a place to get changed/locker room/Shower room.
.

Definitely second the need for secure bike storage in Dublin city.

Springy Turf

d15ude wrote: »

Definitely second the need for secure bike storage in Dublin city.

Agreed. Hopefully this gets included with the infrastructure. The Drury street car park facility seems pretty good (not sure what the record on theft from there is like though). More monitored "bike parks" like this would be super.

In particular, if I had a 2000 euro e-bike, I wouldn't be comfortable leaving it locked on the street in town all day.

Daroxtar

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Apologies. I'd misread it and thought he'd said 30 minutes. Yes, 33kph is very fast for a bike commute.

Is it?
*cough* https://www.strava.com/activities/3561481494 *cough*

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All well and good to paint up more cycle lanes with a few plastic traffic wands, however the biggest issue for most people apart from Safety is when you get to work you need a secure place to lock your bike with CCTV, a place to get changed/locker room/Shower room.

Not only that but on the way home a lot of people may like to stop and get some groceries, again you need to be sure that your bike is still going to be there when you get outside.

Bike theft is a massive issue, you can even see the amount of lads going around in large groups on bikes you know they didn't purchase.

The Gardai just take a report and file it away, so there's no real consequence to bicycle theft...

Especially when a lot of people have bikes worth a couple of grand, worth a lot more than all the 10 years + old cars I see driving around everywhere..

I've always wondered why we don't have bait bikes. Leave a bike unattended with a Garda waiting nearby and nail the scumbag with a mandatory 1 year sentence.

cletus

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I've always wondered why we don't have bait bikes. Leave a bike unattended with a Garda waiting nearby and nail the scumbag with a mandatory 1 year sentence.

Mandatory prison sentences aren't a solution for a number of reasons (not just on n relation to bike theft, mind)

Chips Lovell

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I've always wondered why we don't have bait bikes. Leave a bike unattended with a Garda waiting nearby and nail the scumbag with a mandatory 1 year sentence.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure it may raise questions of entrapment.

magicbastarder

i think we do have bait bikes? i think i saw some reference to it in an article.

edit: this does seem like bait bike territory; a black bike is not a 'garda bike' as we'd think of it.

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/man-caught-trying-to-steal-garda-bicycle-31114509.html

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure it may raise questions of entrapment.

It's not entrapment without coercion.

It's a sting operation. The thief would've stolen the bike anyway.

For it to be entrapment, the Garda would have to encourage a person to steal, then arrest them for it.

Maybe legal discussion can confirm.

beauf

Security is an issue. At work have a underground bike cage with controlled access to both the car park and the cage, and manned security camera. Its still been targeted numerous times, they've even turned up with all the tools to cut off locks etc. Often the same crowd doing it. They obviously can sell them on easily.

I would be wary about putting a decent bike in there, or an eBike. Some people think their bike is safer on the street loads of people around, than in a car park. I don't think it makes a difference. My bike is lower value than the others but better locked. I also use a folding bike, and kept that at my desk, well until jobsworth decided to complain about that.

magicbastarder

since an ebike has a motor attached (and i'm not quite sure how the motor engages with the BB, so bear with me asking a possibly stupid question); would it be possible for the manufacturer to lock out the BB using the motor as a brake, so the bike can't be cycled without some method of unlocking it? be it a key/keycode/etc.?

beauf

They just break it, trying. Even taking them without the batteries and then dumping them when they realise they are useless.

Completely pointless. But if they had any brains, they wouldn't be robbing bikes in the first place.

Macy0161

beauf wrote: »

Security is an issue. At work have a underground bike cage with controlled access to both the car park and the cage, and manned security camera. Its still been targeted numerous times, they've even turned up with all the tools to cut off locks etc. Often the same crowd doing it. They obviously can sell them on easily.

My place keeps using the excuse of bikes robbed from the cage of another company in the industrial estate as an excuse not to put one in. It has a cage, and sheffield stands, but the cage was left open and people hadn't locked their bikes (on the presumption the cage was secure).

I'd still prefer multiple defences - at the moment railings in the car park on the most secure option, as you can actually lock your bike properly to them.

beauf

In one attack on our place they robbed all the bikes at the stands (outside the cage) and left the ones in the cage alone.

Our facilities refuse to put in proper security, they refuse to listen to any advice. They keep buying expensive but poor quality which are very easy to defeat.

Another atttack is to pre-loosen the bolts holding in the stand. Then when someone locks to it they just lift out the stand, out of the bike lock and carry off the bike. So check its secure before locking to it.

Duckjob

magicbastarder wrote: »

since an ebike has a motor attached (and i'm not quite sure how the motor engages with the BB, so bear with me asking a possibly stupid question); would it be possible for the manufacturer to lock out the BB using the motor as a brake, so the bike can't be cycled without some method of unlocking it? be it a key/keycode/etc.?

Only model of eBike I'm aware of that has such a facility is the Stromer brand. They're like the rolls royce of ebikes (with matching price tag :eek:) and pack lots of tech like connectivity and feature control through an app etc.

Would only be possible on hub motor bikes not on mid-drive where the motor is driving the chain rather than the wheel, though I guess those theoretically could lock the cranks...

tomasrojo

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Wind speeds are far worse in Dublin for cyclists than Copenhagen. There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

Do you actually live in Dublin, or near a hellmouth or something?

EDIT: Catching up with the thread. Rockall was much better.

tomasrojo

Anyway, if you want to compare, they're almost identical:

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Wind-speed,copenhagen,Denmark


https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Wind-speed,Dublin,Ireland

tomasrojo

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.



Ultimately what will kill cycling dead in Ireland is our low population density caused by decades of bad planning. Good luck asking a 50 year old to cycle 30 miles to work. In Copenhagen, the middle class lives in the city centre making cycling more viable.

Dublin within the M50 isn't an especially low-density city.

Not sure about the other cities.

beggars_bush

Would love to know where they are selling the bikes or transporting them to?

Type 17

magicbastarder wrote: »

...would it be possible for the manufacturer to lock out the BB using the motor as a brake, so the bike can't be cycled without some method of unlocking it? be it a key/keycode/etc.?

Duckjob wrote: »

Only model of eBike I'm aware of that has such a facility is the Stromer brand. They're like the rolls royce of ebikes (with matching price tag :eek:) and pack lots of tech like connectivity and feature control through an app etc.

Would only be possible on hub motor bikes not on mid-drive where the motor is driving the chain rather than the wheel, though I guess those theoretically could lock the cranks...

E-bikes with the best-spec Bosch powertrain (Kiox controller) have a lockout function where you can set the system to be inoperable when the (easily removable) controller is taken off the bike (slip it into your pocket when parking the bike). If the bike has no controller, it can't be turned on, and if another battery or controller is used, the system won't work (usually, on an e-bike, this would be fine, once they're the correct model). If you lose the controller and want another paired to the bike (or you've stolen the bike), the Bosch dealer has to do it, and if the bike has been reported to Bosch as stolen, it flags up on the dealer's Bosch software, and won't allow a new pairing to happen.
Still might not stop an initial theft, but there's more of a chance of getting the bike back.

Hrududu

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know that more people cycle to work in Dublin than use DART, Luas and suburban rail combined?

Is that true? If so thats an incredible statistic, and should put paid to people whinging about investing in cycling infrastructure.

The dream for me is Amsterdam. I haven't been to Copenhagen to compare, but imagine cities in Ireland having that type of set up.

tomasrojo

The pre-covid-19 canal cordon count is summarised here:

https://irishcycle.com/2020/05/28/pre-covid-19-dublin-traffic-count-showed-71-of-commuters-using-sustainable-transport/comment-page-1/

Cycling about the same as the Luas, as far as I can see, but since that's about crossing the canal, it's missing out the very large number of journeys that begin and end between the canals.

This graph reminds me again that we should use the term "mass transit" and not "public transport", since Ireland for some time has bundled taxis in as public transport, but nobody could possibly think they're mass transit. Just compare the top All Public Transport line with the purple Taxi line at the bottom.

Type 17

Hrududu wrote: »

...The dream for me is Amsterdam. I haven't been to Copenhagen to compare, but imagine cities in Ireland having that type of set up.

According to those in the know, Amsterdam is better than Copenhagen, but comparing them against each other whilst cycling in Ireland is like comparing which which Cabernet Sauvignon is better when you're actually drinking brown water from a ditch.

Macy0161

Just waiting for the myth about "blank canvas after World War 2" or some variation to complete my "Why Ireland is Different" bingo card!

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Macy0161 wrote: »

Just waiting for the myth about "blank canvas after World War 2" or some variation to complete my "Why Ireland is Different" bingo card!

+1. Den Haag was flattened but Amsterdam remained fairly untouched yet they have marvelous infrastructure. The city ain't much bigger than Dublin and the streets are just as narrow, if not moreso. Especially around the canals.

I lived in a town near Arnhem. The Netherlands in general is a wonderful place to cycle.

Macy0161

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

+1. Den Haag was flattened but Amsterdam remained fairly untouched yet they have marvelous infrastructure.

Any cities that had to be rebuilt after world war 2, were re-built for cars. It was in the 60's and 70's they changed focus.

Chips Lovell

I don't think you need to slavishly copy Amsterdam or Copenhagen though. For example, there's been a massive increase in cycling in Dublin in recent years despite us not building any Dutch style infrastructure.

There is a tendency to think that Holland created it's cycling culture by building infrastructure, but it's not quite as clear cut as that. Their cycling culture was always much stronger than other countries and even at its lowest point, numbers cycling were multiples above the UK for example.