George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck [Part 2] (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau.

And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.

27_bjs_use
Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six times higher.

The closure rate for murders is too low to make useful conclusions.

http://www.murderdata.org/p/blog-page.html

For all we know there are 1000s of white murderers who aren't being arrested and convicted.

Overheal

Justin are you able to contribute without getting this upset or personal? It's a bit dull.

I clearly say I wont miss him. That is not the same as saying he deserve to die ?

I never said they were the same. I never said you said he deserved to die. I even reiterated this point. I'm reiterating it even now.

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

The closure rate for murders is too low to make useful conclusions.

http://www.murderdata.org/p/blog-page.html

For all we know there are 1000s of white murderers who aren't being arrested and convicted.

Go on out of that , do you reckon it's white fellas just driving into the hood and randomly shooting black lads, you're delusional. Suppose this is a white lad dressed up as a black dude

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Go on out of that , do you reckon it's white fellas just driving into the hood and randomly shooting black lads, you're delusional.

Not that improbable though is it.

https://news.sky.com/story/why-are-white-men-more-likely-to-carry-out-mass-shootings-11252808

Justin Credible Darts

Overheal wrote: »

Justin are you able to contribute without getting this upset or personal? It's a bit dull.

nice deflection tactic.

Every time you read something that does not suit your agenda, things like actual facts and stats, you ignore.


you defend criminals, and make broad sweeping generalizations about the entire police force, who have a thankless job, having to deal with scum which floyd was,


You have ignored facts that blacks are more likely to be killed by black officers.
Blacks being only 13% of the population commit more serious crimes than white people,
More white people are killed by the police, not black people.


I am not sure if you actually believe the nonsense you spew, or is it some ploy to appear "woke".

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

Not that improbable though is it.

https://news.sky.com/story/why-are-white-men-more-likely-to-carry-out-mass-shootings-11252808

Clutching at straws , random mass shootings have nothing to do with black on black crime

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

nice deflection tactic.

Someone who just called me illiterate and asked about my age thinks he can pretend to accuse others of deflection? Right.

Every time you read something that does not suit your agenda, things like actual facts and stats, you ignore.

Yes you keep accusing me of an agenda but not actually detailing what that agenda is.

you defend criminals, and make broad sweeping generalizations about the entire police force, who have a thankless job, having to deal with scum which floyd was,

I believe suspects are innocent until proven guilty - so do police forces. There's no objectivity in calling Floyd scum.

You have ignored facts that blacks are more likely to be killed by black officers.
Blacks being only 13% of the population commit more serious crimes than white people,
More white people are killed by the police, not black people.

I haven't ignored it. I've specifically addressed this numerous times and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to keep pretending as though I havent.

you were a prolific poster on the part 1 and you even yourself already mentioned this. Incredibly dishonest of you to act as though it has been "ignored" in this thread, or by me in particular, and that it hasn't been mentioned or you aren't aware of the issue with not factoring in demographics with your favorite talking point.

Here, for your personal benefit I will re-paste it again:

Cops should would be killing more whites than blacks if race is not a factor, because whites are 76% of the population. Blacks are 13%. If you look at the shootings on a per capita basis blacks are killed 2.5x more often than whites.

Cops continue to overpolice black neighborhoods, of course they encounter more black crime. Even though, for instance, whites and blacks use marijuana at the same rate and whites make up much more of the population, blacks are arrested, tried, and convicted for using the drug more often - arrests alone are 4x more often. It's not as simple as saying 'oh, blacks must be committing way more criminal acts than whites.'

















https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

I am not sure if you actually believe the nonsense you spew, or is it some ploy to appear "woke".

More deflection from a user apparently upset about such deflections.

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Clutching at straws , random mass shootings have nothing to do with black on black crime

On the contrary it shows that white males have a tendency to act out in violent ways, which are not always mass shootings (though they tend to commit those mass shootings far and away more often than any other demographic). It indeed informs the plausibility that thousands of unsolved murders could have been committed by whites.

Justin Credible Darts

marajuana usage is now a serious crime comparable to murder according to overheal......lol

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

marajuana usage is now a serious crime comparable to murder according to overheal......lol

Employ some critical thinking, eh: if blacks are being policed at such a high rate for something as universal as marijuana it holds up that police are overpolicing blacks as a whole.

Nevermind that Floyd died for a suspect $20 note which has neither to do with murder or marijuana, we are talking about policing that is discriminatory to blacks.

stinkypinky

Overheal wrote: »

Argumentum ad Hominem, despite the forensic pathologist being a forensic pathologist.

Fancy words doesn't hide how stupidly broken your argument is, praise tell the pathologist being paid by the family wouldn't try add some ambiguity to try paint him in a better light - even at that everything points to you being a spoofer because I cannot for the life of me found any report that claims he wasn't high on some substance at the time of his arrest.

The medical examiners report cites Fentanyl intoxication and recent meth use. He's on actual video acting clearly incoherent and non lucid which are clear indicators of drug use, which isn't all that surprising given he has a long history of drug abuse.

Your argument is he behaved in such a non lucid manner is because he was frightened of the police because he was a black man, give me a break. A career criminal who had no problem holding a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach or committing armed robbery.

What happened to the man was wrong but you are really desperate in your attempt to try paint a career criminal and drug addict into something he's not, or hide the fact the police were cordial with him for several minutes until he refused to get into their car.

Justin Credible Darts

ignore the fact that black people are slaughtering black people by the thousands every year.
or how on average 4 murders a day by black on black crime in chicago

white people smoke marajuana so blacks dont commit more serious crime....despite them being in the minority population wise

Overheal logic

Overheal

stinkypinky wrote: »

Fancy words doesn't hide how stupidly broken your argument is, praise tell the pathologist being paid by the family wouldn't try add some ambiguity to try paint him in a better light - even at that everything points to you being a spoofer because I cannot for the life of me found any report that claims he wasn't high on some substance at the time of his arrest.

Then who is spoofing, so, because here are reports to that effect:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-floyd-toxicology-report-drugs.html

https://knsiradio.com/news/local-news/expert-drug-toxicity-had-no-bearing-george-floyds-cause-death

The medical examiners report cites Fentanyl intoxication and recent meth use. He's on actual video acting clearly incoherent and non lucid which are clear indicators of drug use, which isn't all that surprising given he has a long history of drug abuse.

Your circular argument hasn't budged. The drugs could be present in his system for hours, days, weeks, months after the use.

Your argument is he behaved in such a non lucid manner is because he was frightened of the police because he was a black man, give me a break.

Frightened of police holding a gun to him when he was already in jail before. Plenty to be worried about, that he wasn't going to be a free man for years because some shopkeeper thought his $20 was fake.

A career criminal who had no problem holding a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach or committing armed robbery.

He simply did not do this. The robbery in question, Floyds role was to get the door open. It was another perp who held the gun.

What happened to the man was wrong but you are really desperate in your attempt to try paint a career criminal and drug addict into something he's not.

If that is my desperation, yours is desperation to paint him as drug addled and "high as a kite." However, forensic pathologists have rubbished this notion. I don't know what more else you expect from this sub-thread, it will continue to go in circles.

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

ignore the fact that black people are slaughtering black people by the thousands every year.
or how on average 4 murders a day by black on black crime in chicago

white people smoke marajuana so blacks dont commit more serious crime....despite them being in the minority population wise

Overheal logic

Still making things personal mate.

You're ignoring the demographics, ignoring the evidence of over-policing, even ignoring the closure rates on murders, even those in Chicago, where only 53% of murders are cleared, meaning the race of the perpetrator is unknown in 47% of murders. It's even worse than that for previous years.

stinkypinky

Overheal wrote: »

Then who is spoofing, so, because here are reports to that effect:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-floyd-toxicology-report-drugs.html

https://knsiradio.com/news/local-news/expert-drug-toxicity-had-no-bearing-george-floyds-cause-death

You can spam all the opinion pieces you want, two of which in the bulk are claiming that drugs weren't the cause of his death - I never claimed they were.

He's high as a kite in the leaked video, people can see with their own eyes if they chose to. Others like you can chose to close your eyes and ignore it.

"“Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s),” the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a news release. Cause of death was listed as “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.”

Under "other significant conditions” it said Floyd suffered from heart disease and hypertension, and listed fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use. Those factors were not listed under cause of death."

Overheal

stinkypinky wrote: »

You can spam all the opinion pieces you want, two of which in the bulk are claiming that drugs weren't the cause of his death - I never claimed they were.

He's high as a kite in the leaked video, people can see with their own eyes if they chose to. Others like you can chose to close your eyes and ignore it.

"“Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s),” the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a news release. Cause of death was listed as “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.”

Under "other significant conditions” it said Floyd suffered from heart disease and hypertension, and listed fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use. Those factors were not listed under cause of death."

Still going in circles with this.

Justin Credible Darts

can someone enlighten how the police force is racist if the majority of blacks shot dead are shot by black and hispanic officers .

Seeing as blacks and hispanics are a minority in the police force and they are more likely to kill blacks than white officers are, then surely its the blacks that are racist to blacks, not actually the predominantly white members.


Seems to be that both legally and illegally blacks are more prone to shooting blacks than white people are.

Cannot wait to see how this is spun

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

can someone enlighten how the police force is racist if the majority of blacks shot dead are shot by black and hispanic officers .

Seeing as blacks and hispanics are a minority in the police force and they are more likely to kill blacks than white officers are, then surely its the blacks that are racist to blacks, not actually the predominantly white members.


Seems to be that both legally and illegally blacks are more prone to shooting blacks than white people are.

Cannot wait to see how this is spun

Because you can still be racist/have implicit bias against minorities if you are a minority. Or do you think it is impossible for a minority officer to still treat suspects differently based on race factors?

"According to the Implicit Association Test, I have a "strong automatic preference for European Americans compared to African Americans." That's a sterile way of saying that I'm biased against black people. For most people, such a designation would probably be unsettling. After all, the United States is a nation that ostensibly aspires not to judge others "by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." But for me, it caused a mini-existential crisis.

Why? Because I'm black."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/black-on-black-racism-the-hazards-of-implicit-bias/384028/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_racism

Justin Credible Darts

Overheal wrote: »

Because you can still be racist/have implicit bias against minorities if you are a minority. Or do you think it is impossible for a minority officer to still treat suspects differently based on race factors?

or maybe because the intelligent, educated black police officers know blacks are more likely to commit crime are taking no chances.


but hey , again , why let things like truth get in the way.

and your nonsense is again flawed, since most ki9lled by cops are WHITE....are you not grasping this

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Argumentum ad Hominem, despite the forensic pathologist being a forensic pathologist.

So why then, do you choose to give credence to one report more than the other?

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

or maybe because the intelligent, educated black police officers know blacks are more likely to commit crime are taking no chances.


but hey , again , why let things like truth get in the way.

and your nonsense is again flawed, since most ki9lled by cops are WHITE....are you not grasping this

You suppose it, and then call it truth. Hmm. Not much stock in that sorry.

You still keep filibustering the same tired line, more whites are killed by cops. Well, of course they are: cops would be killing more whites than blacks if race is not a factor, because whites are 76% of the population. Blacks are 13%. If you look at the shootings on a per capita basis blacks are killed 2.5x more often than whites.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So why then, do you choose to give credence to one report more than the other?

What report says he was high during his arrest? Nobody on thread has offered one that I can honestly recall, I just see a lot of amateur commentary that he was "high as a kite" etc.

BorneTobyWilde

All thes videos release, and looked over time and time again, but still no one can tell me what Floyd and the Officer by the wall were doing? What was in the package Floyd passed to him, that the officer pocketed quickly while no one was looking.
Seems no one cares. Seems relevant though. Shows the cop was dirty if anything, snapping up what was on offer without a care in the world.

2u2me

stinkypinky wrote: »

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913

They listed arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, fentanyl intoxication, and recent methamphetamine use as other significant conditions contributing to death.

The link provided by Overheal.

stinkypinky

Overheal wrote: »

What report says he was high during his arrest? Nobody on thread has offered one that I can honestly recall, I just see a lot of amateur commentary that he was "high as a kite" etc.

You do know what intoxication means? Do you know what recent means?

There isn't a single report that claims he wasn't under the influence of substances during the incident, are you going to keep clinging to that lie?

The medical examiners report lists fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use. There's video of him behaving in a non lucid state.

Justin Credible Darts

Overheal wrote: »

You suppose it, and then call it truth. Hmm. Not much stock in that sorry.

You still keep filibustering the same tired line, more whites are killed by cops. Well, of course they are: cops would be killing more whites than blacks if race is not a factor, because whites are 76% of the population. Blacks are 13%. If you look at the shootings on a per capita basis blacks are killed 2.5x more often than whites.

Looks like I am gonna have to make it so simple even you might actually grasp it. If you cannot grasp it after this then it clearly shows you are deliberately just being obtuse to the point of being vindictive for either attention or some other reason.


by your logic, white people outnumber blacks by AT LEAST 3 to 1, yet the minority black percentage are shooting more blacks than the predominately white population.
Ergo...blacks are more likely to kill blacks than whites are to kill blacks.


Seems all these blacks are being killed by mostly blacks and hispanics officers., and not by the majority of whites officers.


Still I am sure you will some backward logic to spin this as well

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

What report says he was high during his arrest? Nobody on thread has offered one that I can honestly recall, I just see a lot of amateur commentary that he was "high as a kite" etc.

One has the medical report, indicating the presence of intoxicating substances, allied to video evidence and testimonials from people present with him at the time. In addition, he had pre-existing conditions and was positive for corona, yet you would seemingly dismiss these as corroborating factors in his death.

Why is that?

Justin Credible Darts

AbusesToilets wrote: »

One has the medical report, indicating the presence of intoxicating substances, allied to video evidence and testimonials from people present with him at the time. In addition, he had pre-existing conditions and was positive for corona, yet you would seemingly dismiss these as corroborating factors in his death.

Why is that?

same reason he has dismissed every other fact that did not suit him

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

the minority black percentage are shooting more blacks than the predominately white population.
Ergo...blacks are more likely to kill blacks than whites are to kill blacks

I refer you back to the murder closure rate, which is Chicago is only as high as 53%, so we can't say for sure who is really killing more blacks, can we, when at least 47% of murderers roam free. And that's just the closure rate for 2019, the closure rate has been lower for years.

As for the number of murders happening it is of course appalling but doesn't paint any sort of complete narrative. Yet, we have shedloads of data that show that blacks are overpoliced. That link shouldn't be paywalled but let me know if it is and I will provide excerpt.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

One has the medical report, indicating the presence of intoxicating substances, allied to video evidence and testimonials from people present with him at the time. In addition, he had pre-existing conditions and was positive for corona, yet you would seemingly dismiss these as corroborating factors in his death.

Why is that?

What testimonials say he was high at the time, sorry?

We have forensic pathologist attesting that he was not high at the time of his arrest.