George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck [Part 2] (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Rodin

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not as simple as that. They are distancing themselves from BLMUK because of some of the tweets they posted.

They are not distancing themselves from the view behind the BLM protests.

I didn't say they were.

Justin Credible Darts

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Black or Brown lives do not Matter.
3 murdered over night in Boston.
The Mayor, Marty Walsh says the usual BS "The violence is unacceptable,"
Where is the BLM gang ?
Look at the comments in the newspaper article.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/03/3-inlcuding-15-year-old-boy-killed-in-boston-in-1-day/

was this black on black crime ?

Biafranlivemat

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

was this black on black crime ?

Judging by the locations all three murders was black on Black

I prefer the term Democrat on Democrat crime


https://www.universalhub.com/crime/murder/2020
There is a couple of Hispanics in the murder map.
0% Asian 0% White

Justin Credible Darts

He is entitled to post relevant links , if he chooses to not give an opinion which might have some jump down his throat, that is his right, you slate his "weird posting style" yet failed to give an opinion yourself on what he posted and instead opted to go after the poster instead of the post.
Personally speaking I welcome people posting links.

In part one of this thread we had a member who had the audacity to say people should have to watch a certain tv show before they were allowed post in the thread.

The ego of some people on here dictating how people should post is ridiculous.

Overheal

BLM May be the biggest movement in US history

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/03/us/george-floyd-protests-crowd-size.html

Overheal

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Black or Brown lives do not Matter.
3 murdered over night in Boston.
The Mayor, Marty Walsh says the usual BS "The violence is unacceptable,"
Where is the BLM gang ?
Look at the comments in the newspaper article.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/03/3-inlcuding-15-year-old-boy-killed-in-boston-in-1-day/

I see no arrests announced and therefore no identity of perps for you to blithely assume their race or party affiliation, gender, even national origin, etc.

These deaths are what exactly, to you, other than a convenient deflection? I don’t see that any of the 3 deaths were connected. I don’t see that any involved the police. The black lives matter movement, to wit, is first and foremost about reforming policing such that police value black lives, which given current data they simply don’t feel in a litany of cases, matter. Breonna Taylor while murdered senselessly, for example, still hasn’t resulted in any prosecution of the officer who murdered her, he is an ex cop but a free man. And he won’t be an ex cop for long, surely, he will just apply to any one of the other almost 18,000 departments around the country, perhaps even just a county over or across a state line.

All these stupid ass deflections about “look over here at these random homicides” do is illustrate to the audience the fcuking appalling pig ignorance of the user spouting them to what the movement is about at its core, which is racial bias in policing.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

All these stupid ass deflections about “look over here at these random homicides” do is illustrate to the audience the fcuking appalling pig ignorance of the user spouting them to what the movement is about at its core, which is racial bias in policing.

I don't think it's pig ignorance to assume a group called Black Lives Matter would care about all black victims, not just those killed by police.

There needs to be another group set up that tries to do something about all black lives. Because if BLM's primary aims are only related to policing, they're ignoring what must be 99%+ of black murder victims.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think it's pig ignorance to assume a group called Black Lives Matter would care about all black victims, not just those killed by police.

There needs to be another group set up that tries to do something about all black lives. Because if BLM's primary aims are only related to policing, they're ignoring what must be 99%+ of black murder victims.

Again, this is ignorance of what the movement is centrally about.

I can and have and will again dive into it though if you really need another lecture about how you need to fix policing before you can fix the broken black communities. If we want all of that violence to subside, it has to start with police reform, and at large criminal justice reform, and doing away with modern day slavery.

Don’t get your knickers in a twist that policing is where the movement has aimed its focus, just because there are squirrels everywhere that can eventually be attended to.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Again, this is ignorance of what the movement is centrally about.

I can and have and will again dive into it though if you really need another lecture about how you need to fix policing before you can fix the broken black communities. If we want all of that violence to subside, it has to start with police reform, and at large criminal justice reform, and doing away with modern day slavery.

Don’t get your knickers in a twist that policing is where the movement has aimed its focus, just because there are squirrels everywhere that can eventually be attended to.

They aren't mutually exclusive. It says a lot that you only want BLM and would say no to an equally large group trying to deal with neighbourhood issues.

And I've no interest in a lecture, thanks. You're not an authority on this and your word is not gospel. "The only way to help is to deal with policing first. Nothing else can be done at the same time." as if you actually believe BLM will ever move beyond what they're doing now. Apparently they have to get rid of the police and close prisons before they can confront black gang culture.

AbusesToilets

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They aren't mutually exclusive. It says a lot that you only want BLM and would say no to an equally large group trying to deal with neighbourhood issues.

And I've no interest in a lecture, thanks. You're not an authority on this and your word is not gospel. "The only way to help is to deal with policing first. Nothing else can be done at the same time." as if you actually believe BLM will ever move beyond what they're doing now. Apparently they have to get rid of the police and close prisons before they can confront black gang culture.

There's no money in the neighbourhoods, not going to get the same press and acclaim. Same reason con men like Al Sharpton and his ilk are conspicuously absent until there's a camera to get in front of.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They aren't mutually exclusive. It says a lot that you only want BLM and would say no to an equally large group trying to deal with neighbourhood issues.

And I've no interest in a lecture, thanks. You're not an authority on this and your word is not gospel. "The only way to help is to deal with policing first. Nothing else can be done at the same time." as if you actually believe BLM will ever move beyond what they're doing now. Apparently they have to get rid of the police and close prisons before they can confront black gang culture.

By all means go out there and form your own mutually inclusive group :rolleyes:

I don’t need to be any sort of authority to tell you the pattern: slave patrols -> police forces -> 13th amendment permitting slavery in prisons -> Jim Crow -> the war on drugs ->> the perennial and still ongoing problem of destroying black communities, resulting inexorably in gang culture that you very much appear to deride.

But do go on and tell me what *your* plan is to moderate gang violence? Supposing it involves doubling down on an already broken, racist police system? Let’s hear your answer, now, how does America fix its criminal on criminal homicide problem, if we are going to simply ignore the reasons that people become criminalized in the first place, and turn to gangs for a sense of protection or self worth? Go on professor let’s hear it.

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

But do go on and tell me what *your* plan is to moderate gang violence?

The FIRST step act was a good start IMO. They should build on that more funding, whatever it takes.

I saw Cory Booker(Who usually grinds on me) was pushing the 'next step act' last year. Why is no one supporting this kind of reform?

Just to give you a quick glance at what he was proposing:

• Provide better training for law enforcement officers on implicit racial bias, de-escalation and use-of-force.
• Prohibit racial and religious profiling and improve the reporting of police use-of-force incidents.
• Eliminate the racially-targeted sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine sentences by reducing it from 18:1 to 1:1.
• Reduce harsh mandatory minimums for nonviolent drug offenses.
• End the federal prohibition on marijuana and automatically expunge the records of those convicted on charges of marijuana use and possession.
• Reinvest in the communities most impacted by the failed War on Drugs.
• Improve the ability of those behind bars to stay in touch with their loved ones — which has a proven effect on reducing the risk of recidivism.
• Remove the ban on public assistance and federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits for formerly incarcerated nonviolent drug offenders.
• Remove the barriers for people with criminal convictions to receiving an occupational license for jobs, such as hairdressers and taxi drivers.

The only one I would object to would be the profiling one. These would surely help fix a majority of the problems we're seeing.

Rodin

2u2me wrote: »

The FIRST step act was a good start IMO. They should build on that more funding, whatever it takes.

I saw Cory Booker(Who usually grinds on me) was pushing the 'next step act' last year. Why is no one supporting this kind of reform?

Just to give you a quick glance at what he was proposing:



The only one I would object to would be the profiling one. These would surely help fix a majority of the problems we're seeing.

Most of those are about more lenient treatment of convicted criminals.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Three of the four now former officer's have bonded out of jail. Wonder when Derek will get out on bond, think his lesser bond is $1.25m iirc edit: lesser bail is set at $1m.

"Tou Thao, one of the fired Minneapolis police officers who was charged in the death of George Floyd, is out on bond. He was released on $750,000 on Saturday morning, according to records viewed by Law&Crime. Of the four defendants, only Derek Chauvin remains behind bars."

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/now-3rd-ex-cop-in-george-floyd-case-has-bonded-out-of-jail/?utm_source=mostpopular

Tokyo

Mod: @xtal191 - link dump deleted. Please try to post something that approximates your own personal opinion on the topic next time.

MeMen2_MoRi_

One of the defendants (Lane) is looking for the charges against him to be dropped basses off the bodycam transcripts that have been leaked/released..

"It is not fair and reasonable to require the defendant to stand trial on the charges,” the July 7 memo in support of the motion filed by Thomas Lane‘s attorney began. “There is no probable cause for the charges based on the entire record and the law.”

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/photo-of-fake-20-bill-released-as-ex-cop-tries-to-get-charges-in-george-floyds-death-dismissed/

A judge has placed a gag order on all defendants/lawyers from releasing information speaking public about the case after Lane's lawyer gave an interview..

"Judge Peter A. Cahill said that the order came after the court was “made aware that two or more attorneys representing parties […] granted interviews or talked with the media” on Wednesday, “expounding on the merits of the case or commenting on other aspects of the case” following the filing of a motion to dismiss charges against Thomas Lane. Earl Gray represents Lane."

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/judge-slaps-attorneys-and-defendants-in-george-floyd-case-with-gag-orders/

Up to 150 MPD officer's have filed disability claims, 75 resigned because of PTSD 13 of them were in the PD building the night it was abandoned.

"While law enforcement is a high-stress career, the last two months in Minneapolis have pushed many officers to their breaking point," said Meuser.

"At least 13 officers were inside the Third Precinct building when it was ordered abandoned by city officials, Meuser said, and some of them wrote final notes and texts to loved ones while others said they would reserve their last bullet for themselves to avoid being beaten to death."

https://m.startribune.com/mpd-officers-filing-for-ptsd-disability-at-unprecedented-levels-their-attorney-says/571708312/

briany

Probably the saddest thing about Mr. Floyd's wrongful killing will be that too many people used it as a segue for their own tangential issues and they really don't care about what happened to him at all. It feels like he's been largely forgotten while the focus has moved to trying to 'cancel' people for a silly blackface bit they did 20 or 30 years ago. And because there is so much rabble and so much noise, there is no focus, and because there is no focus nothing will improve. At this rate, the cops who perpetrated that killing will probably get off either entirely or with the lightest sentence fathomable for this type of murder because everybody will be too busy arguing about something completely unrelated to notice or care.

Tell me how

briany wrote: »

Probably the saddest thing about Mr. Floyd's wrongful killing will be that too many people used it as a segue for their own tangential issues and they really don't care about what happened to him at all. It feels like he's been largely forgotten while the focus has moved to trying to 'cancel' people for a silly blackface bit they did 20 or 30 years ago. And because there is so much rabble and so much noise, there is no focus, and because there is no focus nothing will improve. At this rate, the cops who perpetrated that killing will probably get off either entirely or with the lightest sentence fathomable for this type of murder because everybody will be too busy arguing about something completely unrelated to notice or care.

What actions do you think people, the general public or whoever, should be taking in relation to George Floyds death of over 6 weeks ago. When you say that he has been largely forgotten? What do you mean?

Many of the protests which are ongoing are in the name of Breonna Taylor, she died two months before George Floyd, but the cops involved in her murder are yet to be charged, hence the focus on her name rather than Floyd (which is still far from being ignored).

What do you think people should be doing, right now, today, in the middle of July to prevent the cops who were involved in Floyds death from being acquitted? (personally, I think at least one of them should be)

briany

Tell me how wrote: »

What actions do you think people, the general public or whoever, should be taking in relation to George Floyds death of over 6 weeks ago. When you say that he has been largely forgotten? What do you mean?

Many of the protests which are ongoing are in the name of Breonna Taylor, she died two months before George Floyd, but the cops involved in her murder are yet to be charged, hence the focus on her name rather than Floyd (which is still far from being ignored).

What do you think people should be doing, right now, today, in the middle of July to prevent the cops who were involved in Floyds death from being acquitted? (personally, I think at least one of them should be)

I mean that in the wake of George Floyd's death, there has come another wave of BLM (or different organisations under that banner with differing agendas, apparently) and the response to that from various groups. And then we have the questioning of motives from and about the various groups involved, and general b*tching and point-scoring between them, and then the commentators piling in and the media focusing on the looting.

And somewhere along the way, this has been overtaken by a general conversation about racism, and the right of certain statues to stand, and #defundthepolice.

What should people do? Well, the people pushing hardest for all this change should realise that pushing too hard can scare a lot of moderates to whom it looks like you're trying to bring the whole of society down, and hashtags like #defundthepolice do little to assuage this concern. All you can really do, though, is make a simple appeal - to say that the main aim of the protests should be about getting justice for George Floyd, to address the use of excessive force by police officers, to address any systems in place to protect those who engage in it, and lastly, but not least, to address any racial profiling that contributes to excessive force.

Tell me how

briany wrote: »

And somewhere along the way, this has been overtaken by a general conversation about racism, and the right of certain statues to stand, and #defundthepolice.

What should people do? Well, the people pushing hardest for all this change should realise that pushing too hard can scare a lot of moderates to whom it looks like you're trying to bring the whole of society down, and hashtags like #defundthepolice do little to assuage this concern. All you can really do, though, is make a simple appeal - to say that the main aim of the protests should be about getting justice for George Floyd, to address the use of excessive force by police officers, to address any systems in place to protect those who engage in it, and lastly, but not least, to address any racial profiling that contributes to excessive force.

The direction the conversation has gone on isn't solely down to the various BLM movements or groups. A lot of it, and certainly focus on bringing the whole of society down is from groups which are fundamentally in opposition to any of the BLM ideals. It is in the interest of such opponents to paint a more serious picture of BLM focus in order to motivate people to oppose this. As has happened.

In terms of George Floyd, the protests aren't about justice for him (they are more about justice for Breonna Taylor given no one involved in her death has been charged) but it is fundamentally about stopping the next person becoming a hashtag. It is very much looking forward in this respect.

I don't think the protests are going to change much in isolation, but, they will motivate some people to vote for supporters of the ideals mentioned which will in time, stand a better chance of being a path to meaningful change.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Derek and his lawyer along with Tao are not happy about the gag order being issued last week, they're seeking to get it overturned..

“The Court issued its order sua sponte, without sufficient notice to Defendant, without citing legal authority, and without a hearing,” attorney Eric J. Nelson said in a motion dated Monday."

"But Nelson asserted that it was unfair for the gag order to cover him and Chauvin. They hadn’t even spoken to the press, he said.

There is absolutely no reason that Mr. Chauvin’s case or counsel should be treated the same as those of his codefendants,” Nelson wrote. “His counsel has not spoken to the media, he is facing a different set of charges, and his rights were not addressed by the Court when it issued the gag order.”

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/derek-chauvins-lawyer-says-gag-order-unfair-if-anything-it-should-apply-only-to-prosecutors/

MeMen2_MoRi_

Looks like the gloves are off in this one, the defense teams of two (Thao and Lane) want the Minnesota AG sent to jail for "breaking" the gag order..

"Defendant, by and through counsel, respectfully moves the Court for an order holding Keith Ellison, the Attorney General for Minnesota and lead prosecutor in the above-captioned case, in contempt of court and ordering sanctions as a result of his actions,” wrote Robert M. Paule, an attorney for accused ex-cop Tou Thao."

"However, a document filed later Tuesday by attorneys for accused ex-cop Thomas Kiernan Lane explicitly states that Ellison committed an “obvious violation” the gag order by issuing a Monday press release press release announcing a series of additions to his office to assist with the Floyd prosecution."

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/lawyers-for-cops-charged-in-george-floyd-death-say-minnesota-ag-keith-ellison-should-be-jailed-in-contempt-of-court/

The press release.. interesting, 4 of them doing it pro bono?? Wouldn't think that would be the way lawyers for the state would work..

https://www.ag.state.mn.us/Office/Communications/2020/07/13_FloydCaseAttorneys.asp

AllForIt

https://news.sky.com/story/metropolitan-police-must-apologise-for-knee-on-neck-arrest-says-lawyer-12031317

I find the commentary on the UK incident quite disturbing. Some are demanding the police to apologise to a street thug carrying a knife, in a time when knife crime in London is off the scale. I don't think the knee thing is wrong in itself, or any manoeuvre is wrong in itself, as long as it doesn't cause physical harm (any manoeuvre can cause harm if done to excess). It may or may not be an authorised technique, but either way, to apologise to the thug? Any apology should be directed to the officers superiors for breaking procedural rules, not the thug, or to anyone who is watching who takes offence just because they have the same colour skin as the guy with a knife.

Overheal

AllForIt wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/metropolitan-police-must-apologise-for-knee-on-neck-arrest-says-lawyer-12031317

I find the commentary on the UK incident quite disturbing. Some are demanding the police to apologise to a street thug carrying a knife, in a time when knife crime in London is off the scale. I don't think the knee thing is wrong in itself, or any manoeuvre is wrong in itself, as long as it doesn't cause physical harm (any manoeuvre can cause harm if done to excess). It may or may not be an authorised technique, but either way, to apologise to the thug? Any apology should be directed to the officers superiors for breaking procedural rules, not the thug, or to anyone who is watching who takes offence just because they have the same colour skin as the guy with a knife.

It’s the guys lawyer only, in this article you linked to. Of course he will defend his client, it’s his obligation to.

2u2me

Stumbled across this old video of Don Lemon from 2013. This Lemon I never had a problem with. I invite anyone to search the previous thread about what he's been saying as of late.

Very different from in this video. It's unfortunate he has turned into a race-baiting, morally corrupt, spineless, hypocritical, puppet.

Tell me how

2u2me wrote: »

Stumbled across this old video of Don Lemon from 2013. This Lemon I never had a problem with. I invite anyone to search the previous thread about what he's been saying as of late.

Very different from in this video. It's unfortunate he has turned into a race-baiting, morally corrupt, spineless, hypocritical, puppet.

Quite probably because he is sick of reporting the same thing happening month after month with no change.

2u2me

Tell me how wrote: »

Quite probably because he is sick of reporting the same thing happening month after month with no change.

The problems he lists in the video, fatherlessness in the black community, use of the 'n' word, taking responsibility for your own actions, etc.. are not even problems many admit to today and were barely ever taken seriously.

Why did the truth have to change to narrative exactly?
Today the disparities we're seeing are because of an inherently racist system according to Lemon, apparently.

Tell me how

2u2me wrote: »

The problems he lists in the video, fatherlessness in the black community, use of the 'n' word, taking responsibility for your own actions, etc.. are not even problems many admit to today and were barely ever taken seriously.

Why did the truth have to change to narrative exactly?
Today the disparities we're seeing are because of an inherently racist system according to Lemon, apparently.

Possibly, again, you'd have to ask him, he has seen that the root cause of some of the problems in black communities as you have outlined exist partially because of the position many young people find themselves in.

If you felt you had a 1 in 3 chance of going to prison and you stopped to think about it, you may feel that if your chances of actually being arrested and convicted are that high, then the chances of you being targeted and viewed as a criminal, or presumed to be one are much higher again and so from a very early stage, you feel life is going to be difficult and so, you don't motivate yourself to be responsible.

Or, that again, if potential incarceration rates are so high, then that would definitely be expected to a less secure family/relationship environment and as a consequence more absent fathers etc.

Or, if not any of this, why is do you think that a race of people who were renowned for being hard workers are now not inclined to be so? Did they all just decide themselves? Or, were they only ever hard workers because there was somene behind them with a whip?

Eric Cartman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSwqp5fdIw

the video clearly shows him resisting arrest multiple times, clearly acting erratically due to drugs and that his complaints about not being able to breath were even before he was on the ground.

I'm no medical expert but this could possibly vindicate the police.

eggy81

Eric Cartman wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSwqp5fdIw

the video clearly shows him resisting arrest multiple times, clearly acting erratically due to drugs and that his complaints about not being able to breath were even before he was on the ground.

I'm no medical expert but this could possibly vindicate the police.

vindicate kneeling on the blokes windpipe until he croaks. Not sure about that.