Meanwhile in Dijon, France

marklazarcovic

If you take what we have seen so far from all the refugees and immigrants that have come here,not including the EU legal immigrants, and we had a vote should we stop taking in more ,I think the answer would be stop now.

Hundreds of millions that could have been spent on health or education in this country,to feed,house,and pay legal fees for people who seemingly fckin hate the place.

It's infuriating, "we want to claim asylum here thank you,but you must do more for us before we say you aren't a racist country,and we must be allowed to not integrate,learn the language,and we want all our relatives to be brought over to this retched place aswell,and housed alongside us,oh,you cannot question us or our cultural differences,we are not changing to adapt to your country,you will adapt for us".

Or else you must be racists.

Thank you

StackSteevens

antgal23 wrote: »

Is Ireland ready to have an informed debate on controlling immigration?

Kevin Myers used to ask that question 25 years ago in the Irish Times - the response from letter writers was normally to accuse him of being 'a racist'.

Beechwoodspark

OMD wrote: »

Really?
How many?
Enlighten us

A quick google search will give you info OMD but personally speaking I find even 1 case of someone being found fraudulent in our health system completely unnacceptable!

Ask yourself this - would you be ok with someone with zero medical qualifications posing as a doctor/surgeon and operating on you???

antgal23

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

No, not when any discussion is immediately shutdown with accusations of racism, that is the strategy to avoid debate, and it is working. Look at the child minister and her bearded children from Calais, no one willing to call her out as a gullible fool for being hoodwinked.

That's a pity - I find the typical Irish response to certain topics is to sweep them under the big dirty carpet

It's also a pity we can't debate things without being labelled

Pro abortion v pro church
Pro immigration v racist

What happens to the people who are neither but have an opinion?

antgal23

StackSteevens wrote: »

Kevin Myers used to ask that question 25 years ago in the Irish Times - the response from letter writers was normally to accuse him of being 'a racist'.

That's mad

In other words 'let's talk about things that we can all agree on but not the things we can't

How do peeps feel about the Irish having emigrated v our global responsibility to accept immigrants a d refugees?

ArchXStanton

antgal23 wrote: »

Okay, going down the colour route is a cheap shot and narrow minded to put it lightly

Let's have an informed debate about the European project!

They tell us immigration is good but clearly the way France, German, Italy have gone it's not the case...

I personally think the EU project was to allow cheap labour for multi nationals to grow

What also bugs me about debates here is if you mention one thing people label you immediately - that's bad form

BINGO! they don't care about your culture, history or its people, they care about installing their superstate with mindless consumers to prop up their ponzi scheme, I'd recommend looking into the European round table of industrialists.

Rodney Bathgate

antgal23 wrote: »

That's mad

In other words 'let's talk about things that we can all agree on but not the things we can't

How do peeps feel about the Irish having emigrated v our global responsibility to accept immigrants a d refugees?

I think many can see the difference between Irish people who emigrated work and contribute, versus many people who came here and never contributed a thing, living off the Irish tax payer for the rest of their lives.

Jurgen Klopp

Interestingly enough. The lads that mention Stormfront the most could very well be members.

I remember years ago going to it after it was mentioned on here and wondering what was it all about with the screaming over it.

Would you believe there in the Ireland section was a thread from a user bragging how he posted on boards in very aggressive vein calling everyone racists and kept accusing them of being on Stormfront, in the hope that it would recruit at least a handful from here when they'd visit

antgal23

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I think many can see the difference between Irish people who emigrated work and contribute, versus many people who came here and never contributed a thing, living off the Irish tax payer for the rest of their lives.

"I think many can see the difference between"

Okay, I'd like hard data in that

E. G what tax and pension contributions do Eastern Europeans bring back with them v what they contribute to the system?

Or what ℅ of social housing goes to peeps actually born in Ireland or whose parents were born here?

antgal23

The topic of immigration is a tricky one

My wife is Eastern European, we moved back 5 years ago, I work two jobs and pay big rent, can't see us getting a house in the near future

My cousin doesn't work, and just got a brand new council house worth 350 k, says her and fella have split but that's economical with the truth

My uncle is 55 and hasn't worked a day I'm his life, 40 years on dole

So, before I judge immigrants and refugees I always see how my own wider family play the system and draw conclusions there

LiquidZeb

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Interestingly enough. The lads that mention Stormfront the most could very well be members.

I remember years ago going to it after it was mentioned on here and wondering what was it all about with the screaming over it.

Would you believe there in the Ireland section was a thread from a user bragging how he posted on boards in very aggressive vein calling everyone racists and kept accusing them of being on Stormfront, in the hope that it would recruit at least a handful from here when they'd visit

Youd best hope Fenway group don't see this post jurgen or you'll be out on your arse.

Kermit.de.frog

Wouldn't mind a bit of Dijon mustard on my ham sandwich i'm about to consume.

*not sharing, don't ask

Gradius

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Youd best hope Fenway group don't see this post jurgen or you'll be out on your arse.

Would you care to answer my question as to the observable reality of pushback against immigration in countries of heavy immigration, versus the observable (by its absence) non-issue of immigration in countries with no immigration?

How can you propose that most people are in favour of immigration, when observably it is only the countries with no immigration that have no problems with immigration?

Is there an observable correlation/causation that more immigration = more pushback?

And again, how does that lead you to conclude that most people support it?

Gradius

antgal23 wrote: »

The topic of immigration is a tricky one

My wife is Eastern European, we moved back 5 years ago, I work two jobs and pay big rent, can't see us getting a house in the near future

My cousin doesn't work, and just got a brand new council house worth 350 k, says her and fella have split but that's economical with the truth

My uncle is 55 and hasn't worked a day I'm his life, 40 years on dole

So, before I judge immigrants and refugees I always see how my own wider family play the system and draw conclusions there

Your son who lives in your house breaks the television.

Some random stranger walks into your house and breaks your next television.

Are you telling me that you wouldn't mind the stranger because your son did it too?

It's not a good metric to point at problems you must deal with, and then compare them equally with problems you don't need to deal with.

PokeHerKing

Crazy footage on twitter, very surprising not to see any of this covered on sky news channel.

Anyone who can look at Chechen gangs v Algerian gangs going to literal war in a French city and say 'immigration is not the problem here' is the dictionary definition of an idiot.

antgal23

antgal23 wrote: »

The topic of immigration is a tricky one

My wife is Eastern European, we moved back 5 years ago, I work two jobs and pay big rent, can't see us getting a house in the near future

My cousin doesn't work, and just got a brand new council house worth 350 k, says her and fella have split but that's economical with the truth

My uncle is 55 and hasn't worked a day I'm his life, 40 years on dole

So, before I judge immigrants and refugees I always see how my own wider family play the system and draw conclusions there

If i was you i would have moved where your wife is from,cause it wont be pretty in western europe in years to come,and eastern european countries seems like the only countries that still have some politicians with common sense left.

Rodney Bathgate

antgal23 wrote: »

"I think many can see the difference between"

Okay, I'd like hard data in that

E. G what tax and pension contributions do Eastern Europeans bring back with them v what they contribute to the system?

Or what ℅ of social housing goes to peeps actually born in Ireland or whose parents were born here?

I don’t know what ‘peeps’ means, can we stick to English / non-text speak?

Go and find the data and refute my claim, but we know from census figures that Africans are far more like to be unemployed than Eastern European (since you close to make that comparison). We also know that the Africans who choose to work can get jobs, and we were at full employment up to March, so anyone who wanted a job, had a job, even if that job was minimum wage.

ArchXStanton

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If i was you i would have moved where your wife is from,cause it wont be pretty in western europe in years to come,and eastern european countries seems like the only countries that still have some politicians with common sense left.

The EU really really wanted to push those economic migrant quotas on them... They rightly told them to p!ss off

Awful pity we don't have politicians of the same calibre with their country and citizens interests at heart

Outkast_IRE

Very disappointing that mainstream media is not covering this.


This sort of situation is a far right parties dream , it will drive voters into their arms.

kildare lad

antgal23 wrote: »

The topic of immigration is a tricky one

My wife is Eastern European, we moved back 5 years ago, I work two jobs and pay big rent, can't see us getting a house in the near future

My cousin doesn't work, and just got a brand new council house worth 350 k, says her and fella have split but that's economical with the truth

My uncle is 55 and hasn't worked a day I'm his life, 40 years on dole

So, before I judge immigrants and refugees I always see how my own wider family play the system and draw conclusions there

There's plenty of our own doing it without importing scammers aswell, as someone who has a genuine illness , never been on the dole in my life etc, I had to go and have meetings with the social over being on the sick , I had doctors letters to prove I was sick and couldn't work and yet they tried to cut me off . Then you read stories like this about people coming here and going straight on unemployment benefit during the Celtic tiger and claiming over 400,000 in benefits while scamming the government .


https://www.thejournal.ie/court-social-welfare-fraud-3920312-Mar2018/

Yamanoto

iamstop wrote: »

Ever been to Singapore?

Are you seriously suggesting there's no racial tension between Chinese, Malay & Indians in Singapore?

Perhaps ask someone who lives there.

Gradius

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Very disappointing that mainstream media is not covering this.


This sort of situation is a far right parties dream , it will drive voters into their arms.

I was more aware, via what's considered the "mainstream media" of the 16 year old French climber that died. That's the apparent news story for France.

It's a foolish game, because people are going to see the likes of dijon and it's like more and more by unconventional means.

So the game, apparently, is equivalent to "mainstream media" sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming la la la la la.

It's not going to change the outcome of people's observations. If they report it, the reaction will be speedier. If they ignore it, the reaction will be slower, yes, but with the added inflammation of people feeling lied to.

It's a fools game.

LiquidZeb

Gradius wrote: »

Would you care to answer my question as to the observable reality of pushback against immigration in countries of heavy immigration, versus the observable (by its absence) non-issue of immigration in countries with no immigration?

How can you propose that most people are in favour of immigration, when observably it is only the countries with no immigration that have no problems with immigration?

Is there an observable correlation/causation that more immigration = more pushback?

And again, how does that lead you to conclude that most people support it?

From talking to people I know most people support immigration. Several people in my company are immigrants and they bring so much to the workplace. Also it's fairly explanatory why countries without immigration don't have problems with immigration because they don't have enough immigrants. I honestly believe the pros of immigration outweigh the few cons.

antgal23

Gradius wrote: »

Your son who lives in your house breaks the television.

Some random stranger walks into your house and breaks your next television.

Are you telling me that you wouldn't mind the stranger because your son did it too?

It's not a good metric to point at problems you must deal with, and then compare them equally with problems you don't need to deal with.

I feel hypocritical calling out unemployed immigrants and refugees when my relatives are screwing the system

I don't agree with either tbh and both should be called out

Another qn is, of the people caught screwing the system what ℅ are immigrants or refugees?

And what ℅ is that in relation to the total number of immigrants in the country?

Just asking, no axe to grind

ArchXStanton

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From talking to people I know most people support immigration. Several people in my company are immigrants and they bring so much to the workplace. Also it's fairly explanatory why countries without immigration don't have problems with immigration because they don't have enough immigrants. I honestly believe the pros of immigration outweigh the few cons.

Can you list some of the pros?

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From talking to people I know most people support immigration. Several people in my company are immigrants and they bring so much to the workplace. Also it's fairly explanatory why countries without immigration don't have problems with immigration because they don't have enough immigrants. I honestly believe the pros of immigration outweigh the few cons.

Yes i always wondered what an immigrant have that an unemployed irishman doesnt have.

Outkast_IRE

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From talking to people I know most people support immigration. Several people in my company are immigrants and they bring so much to the workplace. Also it's fairly explanatory why countries without immigration don't have problems with immigration because they don't have enough immigrants. I honestly believe the pros of immigration outweigh the few cons.

I think the majority of people have no issue with immigrants who come here legally and work hard and become a fully functional member of society. These types of people also tend to push their kids to do well in school and integrate well. In my own company we have engineers in my office who come from Turkey, Bangladesh, India, Russia, Venezuela, Brazil, Malaysia and many more, all really good people who are coming here to contribute and integrate really well with local staff.





Most people take issue with those who come illegally, make little or no attempt to contribute and just take take take from society. My feelings are the same for any irish people who make no attempt to work.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes i always wondered what an immigrant have that an unemployed irishman doesnt have.

The desire to work. So much so, that they are willing to risk their lives, give up all their possessions and existing network, to better their situation.

Whatever about refugee and asylum seekers, to be against immigration entirely does not make sense to me.

At the high end, highly skilled individuals perform work and generate income that is taxed by the government.

olestoepoke

quokula wrote: »

You don't have to be "liberal", you just have to be capable of the slightest bit of critical thinking to know that isolated stories racists dredge up of individual incidents from other countries in order to validate their twisted worldview are completely statistically insignificant.

All of the real statistics show zero causation between immigration and crime. There are billions of people on earth, hundreds of thousands of crimes get committed all over the world, if you're a rabid racist who purposely ignores all the crimes committed by certain people and highlights all the crimes committed by certain other people, you're going to come to the entirely false conclusion that multiculturism causes crime.

There are many, many academic research papers on these kind of issues and the conclusions are always the same, immigration has either no effect or a net reduction in crime levels. Here is one such paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

That particular paper is American. It's hard to come by Irish statistics as the method of recording has changed, but my experience is certainly that Ireland is a lot safer today than it was when I was growing up when immigration was pretty much non existent. I'm not sure you've ever been to Tallaght if you think rowdy youths are a new thing introduced by immigrants.

A little reminder of the crime free haven that Dublin was prior to immigration: https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-crime-state-papers-2494610-Dec2015/

Im confused, you are making a point about immigration and crime and offer a paper on undocumented immigration and crime. Did you put the wrong paper forward?

antgal23

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The EU really really wanted to push those economic migrant quotas on them... They rightly told them to p!ss off

Awful pity we don't have politicians of the same calibre with their country and citizens interests at heart

The politicians we have are neo liberal EU senior civil servants , ' don't rock the boat and keep our EU and multi national bosses happy'