Meanwhile in Dijon, France

antgal23

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I think the majority of people have no issue with immigrants who come here legally and work hard and become a fully functional member of society. These types of people also tend to push their kids to do well in school and integrate well. In my own company we have engineers in my office who come from Turkey, Bangladesh, India, Russia, Venezuela, Brazil, Malaysia and many more, all really good people who are coming here to contribute and integrate really well with local staff.





Most people take issue with those who come illegally, make little or no attempt to contribute and just take take take from society. My feelings are the same for any irish people who make no attempt to work.

Agreed. System should go after both sets without discrimination

ArchXStanton

antgal23 wrote: »

The politicians we have are neo liberal EU senior civil servants , ' don't rock the boat and keep our EU and multi national bosses happy'

But sure why wouldn't they, they can blame the EU, the EU can blame them. That's an awful lot of unaccountable politicians... And if you thought you had no say in government here you really don't have it at all with the EU.

Gradius

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From talking to people I know most people support immigration. Several people in my company are immigrants and they bring so much to the workplace. Also it's fairly explanatory why countries without immigration don't have problems with immigration because they don't have enough immigrants. I honestly believe the pros of immigration outweigh the few cons.

But you must realise, of course, that "talking to people you know" is practically no metric of anything.

So you agree that countries of no immigration are the only ones without immigration problems, yes?

You see here's the proper analogy...

Ask the people of Ireland how much they care about black mamba snakes. None, will be the answer.

Ask people in sub-saharan Africa the same question. Totally different response.

Therefore, it is self evident, easily observed, that more immigration = more pushback from those on the receiving end. You can pick out the countries without a second thought. And note this, it is a handful, at best, of the 190+ countries in the world. It is going against the grain, to a very significant degree.

And seeing as that's the case, is it not very fair to say that if you can have additional problems, versus not having additional problems, Intelligent people will choose not to add additional problems to their lives?

So, no, I sincerely do not believe that most people are pro-immigration. Otherwise you wouldn't be seeing this growing backlash in those very few experimental countries.

Last but not least, a rhetorical question: How do you see this playing out over the next 10 years or more? Do you honestly believe it's all going to settle down? All I can see is the opposite, the evidence is everywhere to me. It's not a case of picking and choosing information.

Im not having a go at you by the way, it's just like someone telling me that gravity doesn't exist. It just doesn't match up with what I can readily observe, and it's quite puzzling to me.

LiquidZeb

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Can you list some of the pros?

Yeah it helps reverse aging demographics, revitalizes neighbourhoods and areas that are depopulated. They bring culinary and ethnic diversity to the native culture. They open up businesses that provide employment.

KevRossi

Not sure how biased or unbiased this is, but it's an interesting take on the situation.

https://twitter.com/mrtandwavy/status/1272869092274429952

olestoepoke

It's widely accepted that all healthy economies need immigration and for the most part it is seen as a positive thing. The resentment of some groups of immigrants often comes from observing them getting a free ride in society. I live in Balbriggan, our street is 95% hard working mortgage paying families from all over. Polish, Spanish, Lithuanian and mostly Irish. On a Monday morning our cul de sac empties with people off to work to pay their mortgages and provide for their families, all except two houses where African families live. They don't work, the houses were taken over by the council and furnished with Harvey Norman furniture, a maintenance company spent months fixing up the houses. the families that live in these houses drive fairly new cars. Now they might as well be Irish spongers( there are plenty of them too) but up in this town, most are of African decent. watching people get a free ride whilst the rest of us work our butts off causes resentment regardless of their ethnicity. Just so happens up here most are African.

enricoh

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yeah it helps reverse aging demographics, revitalizes neighbourhoods and areas that are depopulated. They bring culinary and ethnic diversity to the native culture. They open up businesses that provide employment.

Immigration certainly has revitalised that part of dijon. Not sure many of the natives will get to appreciate it - they probably legged it ages ago! Ah well, their loss!

StackSteevens

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Very disappointing that mainstream media is not covering this.


This sort of situation is a far right parties dream , it will drive voters into their arms.

In fairness, the Irish Examiner is:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/france-sends-more-police-to-dijon-after-four-nights-of-violent-clashes-1005576.html

LiquidZeb

enricoh wrote: »

Immigration certainly has revitalised that part of dijon. Not sure many of the natives will get to appreciate it - they probably legged it ages ago! Ah well, their loss!

Well I mean you're picking an extreme example and trying to pass it as the rule. It's hardly fair.

Gradius

antgal23 wrote: »

I feel hypocritical calling out unemployed immigrants and refugees when my relatives are screwing the system

I don't agree with either tbh and both should be called out

Another qn is, of the people caught screwing the system what ℅ are immigrants or refugees?

And what ℅ is that in relation to the total number of immigrants in the country?

Just asking, no axe to grind

I understand, it's very frustrating to deal with such people. But I see it as the crap we must put up with, versus the extra crap we invite for no good reason at all.

As for statistics, you'll find them hard to come across! There's a friend of mine that works in one such government department and he told me that they have been told in no roundabout way to keep their mouths shut or its goodbye.

One of these days those actual numbers are going to be leaked and it will be an explosive reaction from the public. It's a case of getting the information out without being caught.

On that basis you can draw your own conclusions.

kildare lad

olestoepoke wrote: »

It's widely accepted that all healthy economies need immigration and for the most part it is seen as a positive thing. The resentment of some groups of immigrants often comes from observing them getting a free ride in society. I live in Balbriggan, our street is 95% hard working mortgage paying families from all over. Polish, Spanish, Lithuanian and mostly Irish. On a Monday morning our cul de sac empties with people off to work to pay their mortgages and provide for their families, all except two houses where African families live. They don't work, the houses were taken over by the council and furnished with Harvey Norman furniture, a maintenance company spent months fixing up the houses. the families that live in these houses drive fairly new cars. Now they might as well be Irish spongers( there are plenty of them too) but up in this town, most are of African decent. watching people get a free ride whilst the rest of us work our butts off causes resentment regardless of their ethnicity. Just so happens up here most are African.

How do you know that they're not doctors doing the night shift

olestoepoke

kildare lad wrote: »

How do you know that they're not doctors doing the night shift

Gradius

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well I mean you're picking an extreme example and trying to pass it as the rule. It's hardly fair.

You see that's the problem, people put far more importance on negativities than they do neutral things.

A native French bloke might interact with 200 immigrants neutrally in dijon on a daily basis. But, watching the ongoing battlezone, I am quite sure they would readily forego those 200 non-impact immigrants if they could get rid of that battlezone on their doorstep, not having to worry about their children in school, getting knifed on the way to get a pint of milk etc

That's human nature. You'd be the same yourself if the situation was such.

ArchXStanton

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yeah it helps reverse aging demographics, revitalizes neighbourhoods and areas that are depopulated. They bring culinary and ethnic diversity to the native culture. They open up businesses that provide employment.

I'm still not buying it, pretty sure the demographics here are ok. I think the negatives far outweigh the culinary delights.

More pressure on housing, health, schools, social welfare and other institutions, lower wages, crime, White flight, racial tensions the list could go on and on

LiquidZeb

Gradius wrote: »

You see that's the problem, people put far more importance on negativities than they do neutral things.

A native French bloke might interact with 200 immigrants neutrally in dijon on a daily basis. But, watching the ongoing battlezone, I am quite sure they would readily forego those 200 non-impact immigrants if they could get rid of that battlezone on their doorstep, not having to worry about their children in school, getting knifed on the way to get a pint of milk etc

That's human nature. You'd be the same yourself if the situation was such.

Well I mean to be fair the French are well able to tear **** up themselves eg the yellow vests

kildare lad

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yeah it helps reverse aging demographics, revitalizes neighbourhoods and areas that are depopulated. They bring culinary and ethnic diversity to the native culture. They open up businesses that provide employment.

if you wanna about culinary I can tell you all eastern Europeans have eaten all the fish and ducks out of my local canal. That's one culture I wish they didn't bring to Ireland

LiquidZeb

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I'm still not buying it, pretty sure the demographics here are ok. I think the negatives far outweigh the culinary delights.

More pressure on housing, health, schools, social welfare and other institutions, lower wages, crime, White flight, racial tensions the list could go on and on

Stuff like housing health and schools are problems for the government to fix that then get lumped on immigrants doors by claiming their presence caused the systems to be overburdened.

LiquidZeb

kildare lad wrote: »

if you wanna about culinary I can tell you all eastern Europeans have eaten all the fish and ducks out of my local canal. That's one culture I wish they didn't bring to Ireland

Now I will concede that's obscene.

ArchXStanton

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Stuff like housing health and schools are problems for the government to fix that then get lumped on immigrants doors by claiming their presence caused the systems to be overburdened.

Ah right I always though demand drove house prices up, more migrants = lower wages too...

kildare lad

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well I mean you're picking an extreme example and trying to pass it as the rule. It's hardly fair.

I've been to Birmingham , my uncle lived there, I'd move if my town ended up like that .

LiquidZeb

kildare lad wrote: »

I've been to Birmingham , my uncle lived there, I'd move if my town ended up like that .

Birmingham was always a fairly violent city though. Cities like that were rough places to live throughout the industrial revolution, pre and post WWI and WWII.

antgal23

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If i was you i would have moved where your wife is from,cause it wont be pretty in western europe in years to come,and eastern european countries seems like the only countries that still have some politicians with common sense left.

I did. Lived there for 7 years

They hate blacks, Indians, the Chinese and gays

They barely tolerate women

But they love Western Europeans and the Yanks

LiquidZeb

antgal23 wrote: »

I did. Lived there for 7 years

They hate blacks, Indians, the Chinese and gays

They barely tolerate women

But they love Western Europeans and the Yanks

Sounds like paradise for some here. I jest I jest.

kildare lad

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Birmingham was always a fairly violent city though. Cities like that were rough places to live throughout the industrial revolution, pre and post WWI and WWII.

Uncle said it was great when he first moved there, good community etc, the only time he ever got hassle was after the bombings . But over time more and more Pakistani moved in and all his neighbours moved out, the local pub closed down as they don't drink , all the local shops got bought up and turned into Pakistani shops , mosques etc women going around in full length burkhas , he said women used to get hassled if they walked by mosques wearing skirts . Do you agree with that type of multiculturalism??

LiquidZeb

kildare lad wrote: »

Uncle said it was great when he first moved there, good community etc, the only time he ever got hassle was after the bombings . But over time more and more Pakistani moved in and all his neighbours moved out, the local pub closed down as they don't drink , all the local shops got bought up and turned into Pakistani shops , mosques etc women going around in full length burkhas , he said women used to get hassled if they walked by mosques wearing skirts . Do you agree with that type of multiculturalism??

Well no but it's the British governments fault for not assisting the immigrants in merging with society.

kildare lad

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well no but it's the British governments fault for not assisting the immigrants in merging with society.

But some cultures don't want to merge with society . Look at this video of a March in Luton by Muslims , do they seem like the type of people who'll integrate to society


https://youtu.be/b2nlIfn8tNA

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

do they seem like the type of people who'll integrate to society

A large part of the problem is that


A lot of blacks are assh0les.
A lot of muslims are assh0les.
A lot of travellers are assh0les.
A lot of gay/lesbians are assh0les.
A lot of chinese are assh0les.
A lot of Gardai are assh0les.

A lot of Priests are assh0les. etc. etc


The ones who aren't, tend to spend their time just getting on with their lives and generally will roll their eyes at all of the stupid stuff their "own" people are doing, just like everyone else.


But it's the morons that seem to be the minority, yet somehow manage to get the spotlight repeatedly. Now some people don't help themselves at all (when have you ever heard of a traveller group getting involved in a charity event or community clean up etc) but by and large it's the same people over and over again causing the grief and hassle.


If a Garda stops you at a checkpoint and is a complete and total wanker, you'll blame all Gardai for it. The next Garda you meet will annoy you just by their existence, despite having done no wrong.

Nesta2018

Deleted User wrote: »

A large part of the problem is that


A lot of blacks are assh0les.
A lot of muslims are assh0les.
A lot of travellers are assh0les.
A lot of gay/lesbians are assh0les.
A lot of chinese are assh0les.
A lot of Gardai are assh0les.

A lot of Priests are assh0les. etc. etc


The ones who aren't, tend to spend their time just getting on with their lives and generally will roll their eyes at all of the stupid stuff their "own" people are doing, just like everyone else.


But it's the morons that seem to be the minority, yet somehow manage to get the spotlight repeatedly. Now some people don't help themselves at all (when have you ever heard of a traveller group getting involved in a charity event or community clean up etc) but by and large it's the same people over and over again causing the grief and hassle.


If a Garda stops you at a checkpoint and is a complete and total wanker, you'll blame all Gardai for it. The next Garda you meet will annoy you just by their existence, despite having done no wrong.

That's just silly and naive. It's perfectly obvious that some cultures will clash and have little in common. Western women are disadvantaged when they live in an area dominated by conservative Muslims. I've lived in such a place myself. You are either catcalled or glared at with disapproval and blanked in shops. It's really unpleasant. Now maybe that's their culture and they like women covering up but don't expect indigenous women to be happy when that kind of behaviour is imported into somewhere they call home. It really pisses me off when I see this kind of dismissive attitude.

Kermit.de.frog

kildare lad wrote: »

But some cultures don't want to merge with society . Look at this video of a March in Luton by Muslims , do they seem like the type of people who'll integrate to society


https://youtu.be/b2nlIfn8tNA

A lot of them would be 2nd/3rd generation immigrants too.

Kind of sad really to have such contempt for the country that took in your family.

And they talk about oppression but it's not the everyday British man that has their other half in burkas and full coverings.

It's just not right. That's not diversity either.

Do these areas look diverse?

Sad to see.

ArchXStanton

kildare lad wrote: »

But some cultures don't want to merge with society . Look at this video of a March in Luton by Muslims , do they seem like the type of people who'll integrate to society


https://youtu.be/b2nlIfn8tNA

Imagine going to their countries and carrying on like that..