Meanwhile in Dijon, France

Mules

I remember reading an article about Chechen Isis members in Iraq. All the other Isis fellas were afraid of them:pac:

RocketRaccoon

quokula wrote: »

I was replying to someone who claimed immigration causes crime.

I replied pointing out that there has been lots of studies that show no correlation between immigration and crime.

You replied saying correlation doesn't mean causation.

I know that, but in this case there isn't even correlation, and across multiple studies there is most commonly a slight inverse correlation. Which, you are correct, doesn't necessarily prove immigration lowers crime.

But I think we can agree that there is no evidence whatsoever of a link between immigration and crime. It would therefore be very strange to assume one based on that lack of evidence.

No correlation between immigration and crime? Have you tried opening your eyes and seeing what's going on around Europe?

quokula

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

No correlation between immigration and crime? Have you tried opening your eyes and seeing what's going on around Europe?

Yes. Have you? Or have you just been consuming cherry picked youtube videos to reenforce a certain viewpoint?

The stats are pretty clear, I posted a bunch earlier, not going to carry on arguing this because nobody is going to change their mind when presented with facts sadly.

Cordell

Yes, we agree that there is no evidence hence we don't agree there is no correlation, but this applies on the grand total of criminal activity and immigration.

On the case discussed here, clearly this crime and a specific kind of immigration are correlated. Grooming gangs and FGM in Europe, another particular case of correlation and causality between specific crime and specific immigration. Because not all crime is equal and not all immigration is equal.

biko

biko wrote: »

What is the connection between some Irish having fun working abroad and Chechen gangs fighting Algerians in France?

Doesn't immigrant gang wars exist because some people made friends in Sydney?

No they excists because of mass immigration out of control

RocketRaccoon

quokula wrote: »

Yes. Have you? Or have you just been consuming cherry picked youtube videos to reenforce a certain viewpoint?

The stats are pretty clear, I posted a bunch earlier, not going to carry on arguing this because nobody is going to change their mind when presented with facts sadly.

So you think we had gangs roaming the streets of Ireland stabbing people for years before mass immigration? I don't remember that at all.

MontgomeryClift

quokula wrote: »

Yes. Have you? Or have you just been consuming cherry picked youtube videos to reenforce a certain viewpoint?

The stats are pretty clear, I posted a bunch earlier, not going to carry on arguing this because nobody is going to change their mind when presented with facts sadly.

The stats aren't clear. I've debunked that study you linked, which conveniently started at 1990, when the crime wave initiated by the 1965 immigration act was being brought under control.

quokula

quokula wrote: »

I was replying to someone who claimed immigration causes crime.

I replied pointing out that there has been lots of studies that show no correlation between immigration and crime.

You replied saying correlation doesn't mean causation.

I know that, but in this case there isn't even correlation, and across multiple studies there is most commonly a slight inverse correlation. Which, you are correct, doesn't necessarily prove immigration lowers crime.

But I think we can agree that there is no evidence whatsoever of a link between immigration and crime. It would therefore be very strange to assume one based on that lack of evidence.

Thats strange,cause in Sweden it seems to be the opposite of what you are saying.
Most of the shooters and victims are unemployed young men with immigrant backgrounds, under 30 years of age, living in disadvantaged neighbourhoods and often without a high school diploma.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190704/in-depth-whats-behind-the-rise-in-gang-violence-across-sweden

quokula

quokula wrote: »

I know the technical definition of expat but that's not how it's used 99% of the time. You don't know whether someone is working or not by just looking at them, but I certainly know what reasoning people used without having that knowledge to classify them as "expat" (good) or "immigrant" (bad) - I've seen this first hand with friends who are from Australia, New Zealand etc vs friends who are from Lebanon, Jordan etc doing exactly the same work.

Sure, you do. An expat is either someone who is working (might have a business) or living abroad while having an independent source of income (usually a pension).

The important aspect of being an expat is that you've got an income that supports your lifestyle. Without that income or being able to replace it, you'd be on a plane home.

Migrants, on the other hand, may be able to support themselves while settling in a country, but a large percentage of migrants in recent years, arrive without the means to support themselves except through the most casual of employment (black economy).

suicide_circus

double jobbing wrote: »

Serious question. Does France, Germany, Spain, Scandinavia have an indigenous underclass the same as Ireland and the UK has?

Obviously these countries also have people who live in deprivation but the chav/scrote culture that has developed in the UK and Ireland does not exist. The social contract of rights being teamed with responsibilities is much stronger. Intergenerational welfare dependence is not simply laughed away as it is here. Education is much more varied particularly in Germany and Austria where there is full on vocational/apprentice colleges and they dont have the insane notion that got popular here that everyone has to have a degree.

Richard Hillman

I believe that people that travel to Europe, travel in good faith. To find work and to create a life in a civilised country. However, the reality is when it comes down to employment they will always be passed over for cultural reasons. If you have a small-medium business and you are hiring somebody for a non to low skilled job, a part of the criteria is how well you think they will get on with other people in the work place. Culture is everything.

If you are France or Germany or Sweden, you can bring as many people as you like from the ****hole counties, nobody is going to employ them. They end up disillusioned and hanging around the streets with no stake in society, therefore ending up involved in crime.

If politicians are intent on solving pension issues and low birthrates, why don't they go to places with cultural compatibility? South/Central America, Ukraine/Belerus, South East Asia. Not ****ing Chechnya, North Africa, Somalia and Afghanistan FFS.

It's the people that make a place. It works both ways, good and bad.

Queasy Tadpole

Deleted User wrote: »

You dont think this racism goes both ways?Maybe some just doesnt want to be integrated?Maybe they just want to follow the laws and culture of their own country no matter what?
The whole racisms have gone beyond ridicoulus if you ask me,i worked in Africa and was told to get the feck home cause i was white and stole their job.
I wonder what would have happened if i done same to them here in Ireland??
Problem here in Europe its to easy to be labeled an racists no matter.

Yes this is an issue with the black youth. I've seen it in France and in Ireland. An unwillingness to integrate and give a cohesive life. I don't know how this is solved. It's similar to racism. How do you get a white racist to live and work with a black man when they believe them to be beneath them?

How do you get a black immigrant to live and work alongside his white colleagues when they believe they are oppressing them?

SEPT 23 1989

when I hear Chechnya I think Beslan

obviously the apples don't fall far from the tree

kildare lad

quokula wrote: »

I was replying to someone who claimed immigration causes crime.

I replied pointing out that there has been lots of studies that show no correlation between immigration and crime.

You replied saying correlation doesn't mean causation.

I know that, but in this case there isn't even correlation, and across multiple studies there is most commonly a slight inverse correlation. Which, you are correct, doesn't necessarily prove immigration lowers crime.

But I think we can agree that there is no evidence whatsoever of a link between immigration and crime. It would therefore be very strange to assume one based on that lack of evidence.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest

Black people were over 3 times as likely to be arrested as White people – there were 35 arrests for every 1,000 Black people, and 10 arrests for every 1,000 White people

arrests data in 2017/18. Population estimates for Lancashire have therefore been removed from the 'All' population figures when calculating arrest rates per 1,000 people.

This data shows that:

in 2017/18, the biggest difference in the arrest rates between Black people and White people was in Dorset (where Black people were almost 12 times as likely to be arrested as White people), followed by Cumbria (where Black people were 10 times as likely to be arrested as White people)
Black people had the highest arrest rates per 1,000 people in every police force area for which there was data
the arrest rate for Asian people was nearly 3 times higher than the rate for White people in West Mercia
the arrest rate for people with Mixed ethnicity was 3 times the rate for White people in Essex, Gloucestershire and Staffordshire
in London (the Metropolitan Police force area), 53% of people arrested were from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups combined (the highest percentage out of all police force areas) – by comparison, 40% of the population of London was from these combined ethnic groups at the time of the 2011 Census
in London, there were 19 arrests for every 1,000 ethnic minority people compared with 12 arrests for every 1,000 White people
Cleveland had the highest overall rate of arrests, at 19 arrests for every 1,000 people
the police forces with the lowest overall rates of arrests were Devon and Cornwall (7 arrests for every 1,000 people), followed by Gloucestershire, Surrey, and Dyfed-Powys (each with 8 arrests per 1,000 people)
differences in the rate of arrests in England and Wales are likely, in part, to reflect population differences in those areas (with many more people from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups living in London than in North Wales, for example


So immigration does cause crime ?

Queasy Tadpole

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Yes this is an issue with the black youth. I've seen it in France and in Ireland. An unwillingness to integrate and give a cohesive life. I don't know how this is solved. It's similar to racism. How do you get a white racist to live and work with a black man when they believe them to be beneath them?

How do you get a black immigrant to live and work alongside his white colleagues when they believe they are oppressing them?

Its an cultural thing,some cultures are harder to integrate into our society than others.
Some are less educated as well,and lack proper integration,problem is that it cost money,alot of money.
And this is what the politicians wont tell you,the price of immigration.
And some simply doesnt want to be integrated,they just want to carry on as before like they did in the country they came from,

I worked on cruiseships back in the 90s with 60 nations onboard,60 different cultures and never had an issue with racism.
Working on an offshore vessel in Africa,you really felt you were not welcome at all,even if we had locals onboard working for us as part of the contract.
We even had to have armed security onboard,locals as well,but still there was many issues with cooperation because of culture clashes and lack of education.

boardise

quokula wrote: »

You don't have to be "liberal", you just have to be capable of the slightest bit of critical thinking to know that isolated stories racists dredge up of individual incidents from other countries in order to validate their twisted worldview are completely statistically insignificant.

All of the real statistics show zero causation between immigration and crime. There are billions of people on earth, hundreds of thousands of crimes get committed all over the world, if you're a rabid racist who purposely ignores all the crimes committed by certain people and highlights all the crimes committed by certain other people, you're going to come to the entirely false conclusion that multiculturism causes crime.

There are many, many academic research papers on these kind of issues and the conclusions are always the same, immigration has either no effect or a net reduction in crime levels. Here is one such paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

That particular paper is American. It's hard to come by Irish statistics as the method of recording has changed, but my experience is certainly that Ireland is a lot safer today than it was when I was growing up when immigration was pretty much non existent. I'm not sure you've ever been to Tallaght if you think rowdy youths are a new thing introduced by immigrants.

A little reminder of the crime free haven that Dublin was prior to immigration: https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-crime-state-papers-2494610-Dec2015/

I offer no comment on your post per se.
I merely observe (on the back of many decades spent in academic life) that I have seen how departments of sociology and education in particular have been almost totally colonised by PC ideology. The findings of 'the many academic research papers' referred to are no surprise -I would be astounded if it were otherwise.

nj27

The political scientist Robert Putnam conducted extensive research on the effects of multiculturalism on social capital in the United States, but he actually sat on his findings for quite a while as he didn't expect them to go down particularly well with his liberal/academic peers.

In his book Bowling Alone, he used the drop off in attendance at America's bowling leagues as a microcosm for society at large which had its bonding and bridging capital, the names given to the variety of mechanisms which allow for a cohesive society, broken down by the increased multiculturalism of the country. Apart from some bitchin' food from Africa and Asia, Ireland also has this to look forward to in the coming decades.

conorhal

quokula wrote: »

I was replying to someone who claimed immigration causes crime.

I replied pointing out that there has been lots of studies that show no correlation between immigration and crime.

You replied saying correlation doesn't mean causation.

I know that, but in this case there isn't even correlation, and across multiple studies there is most commonly a slight inverse correlation. Which, you are correct, doesn't necessarily prove immigration lowers crime.

But I think we can agree that there is no evidence whatsoever of a link between immigration and crime. It would therefore be very strange to assume one based on that lack of evidence.

No. You're just obfuscating by conflating legal immigration with mass migration and the asylum system, which are two very different things.

Asian doctors employed on a working visa for areas which require migrants to meet demand cannot be conflated with, say, the tens of thousands of Nigerian migrants arriving via the asylum system and have a 60% unemployment rate, and those that are working aren't paying much in the way of tax contributions because they tend to be engaged in low wage employment.
In other words, a massive net loss to the economy

facehugger99 wrote: »

People to pay for your pension.

AHhahahahaha....*

So tell me, has the pension rate or the age at which you aquire pension entitlements gone up or down in the last 20yrs of mass immigration into this country? Has legal mass immigration improved or deminished working conditions for Irish workers or just driven the casual gig economy?
Do you seriously think that migrant groups with unemployment rates well about 50% are going to be paying anybodies pension or will Irish people be working way past retirement age to provide this swelling underclass with all the gibs necessary to keep them from rioting in the streets?

ChelseaRentBoy

Multiculturalism is wonderful isn't it.

IAmTheReign

kildare lad wrote: »

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest

Black people were over 3 times as likely to be arrested as White people – there were 35 arrests for every 1,000 Black people, and 10 arrests for every 1,000 White people

arrests data in 2017/18. Population estimates for Lancashire have therefore been removed from the 'All' population figures when calculating arrest rates per 1,000 people.

This data shows that:

in 2017/18, the biggest difference in the arrest rates between Black people and White people was in Dorset (where Black people were almost 12 times as likely to be arrested as White people), followed by Cumbria (where Black people were 10 times as likely to be arrested as White people)
Black people had the highest arrest rates per 1,000 people in every police force area for which there was data
the arrest rate for Asian people was nearly 3 times higher than the rate for White people in West Mercia
the arrest rate for people with Mixed ethnicity was 3 times the rate for White people in Essex, Gloucestershire and Staffordshire
in London (the Metropolitan Police force area), 53% of people arrested were from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups combined (the highest percentage out of all police force areas) – by comparison, 40% of the population of London was from these combined ethnic groups at the time of the 2011 Census
in London, there were 19 arrests for every 1,000 ethnic minority people compared with 12 arrests for every 1,000 White people
Cleveland had the highest overall rate of arrests, at 19 arrests for every 1,000 people
the police forces with the lowest overall rates of arrests were Devon and Cornwall (7 arrests for every 1,000 people), followed by Gloucestershire, Surrey, and Dyfed-Powys (each with 8 arrests per 1,000 people)
differences in the rate of arrests in England and Wales are likely, in part, to reflect population differences in those areas (with many more people from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups living in London than in North Wales, for example


So immigration does cause crime ?

You're confusing ethnicity with nationality. Most of the people from ethnic minorities in Britain are not immigrants. Most of them were born in Britain and are British citizens.

You've also failed to point out that according to the stats you linked arrest rates for all ethnicities have decreased over the last 10 years, despite the fact that the immigrant population has increased in that time period.

So despite immigrant populations increasing, the likelihood of people from ethnic minorities being involved in criminal behaviour has decreased. Nothing in the article you posted supports the idea that immigration causes crime.

Montage of Feck

Paying for my pension? What a joke.

Das Reich

White people specially talking about anglos, are very strange, so different from mediterraneans. They go fight against a black man much bigger just to be humiliated, how came only in countries like USA, UK or Northern European countries that they do that? With those people you need to be bad like they are. In Brazil they are very friendly, nobody would fight a random person as they know nobody would be humiliated and not come back with a knife and stab him, like a Brazilian that killed a traveller in Waterford after being attacked. They behave like this in white countries just because they know white people does nothing.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1672023019632180&id=654339308067228

facehugger99

conorhal wrote: »

AHhahahahaha....*

So tell me, has the pension rate or the age at which you aquire pension entitlements gone up or down in the last 20yrs of mass immigration into this country? Has legal mass immigration improved or deminished working conditions for Irish workers or just driven the casual gig economy?
Do you seriously think that migrant groups with unemployment rates well about 50% are going to be paying anybodies pension or will Irish people be working way past retirement age to provide this swelling underclass with all the gibs necessary to keep them from rioting in the streets?

Must have missed those buddy.

You sure the world of reality and the world of your online, alt-right trigger videos are on nodding terms with each other?

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

Must have missed those buddy.

You sure the world of reality and the world of your online, alt-right trigger videos are on nodding terms with each other?

Ah here comes the classical left wing response,alt righ trigger videos,next will will be racist and at the end you will be a nazi.
Some things never change

MontgomeryClift

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here comes the classical left wing response,alt righ trigger videos,next will will be racist and at the end you will be a nazi.
Some things never change

They could easily balance things out by posting some video from a White Lives Matter march, where some lone black lad had his head stomped in by a horde of whites. They don't, though. Wonder why that is...

4068ac1elhodqr

France now the 2nd favourite country to withdraw from the EU Project 8/1, overtaking previous favourite (Greece)
8/1 is still good odds for any long term betting strategists out there.

In response to the 200 taking over one of their cities about the size of Cork, in what is a cultural battle, the French have sent in their stormtroopers.

MontgomeryClift

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

They could easily balance things out by posting some video from a White Lives Matter march, where some lone black lad had his head stomped in by a horde of whites. They don't, though. Wonder why that is...

And that offcourse never happened the other way around,lol

Thelonious Monk

People have been saying this country and that country are f*cked because of immigration since probably after WW2, well none of them are really f*cked are they? The economic powerhouses of Germany and France, which are delightful places to visit of course, apart from a few shady neighbourhoods you're not going to go near anyway. London for the most part is a melting pot of cultures, never had any trouble while living there. I mean life is too short to worry about this stuff.
Also many European countries like France had no problem invading countries to hoover up their resources in the past.

Kermit.de.frog

Alessandro Black Ware wrote: »

France now the 2nd favourite country to withdraw from the EU Project 8/1, overtaking previous favourite (Greece)
8/1 is still good odds for any long term betting strategists out there.

In response to the 200 taking over one of their cities about the size of Cork, in what is a cultural battle, the French have sent in their stormtroopers.

Imagine scenes like that in Ireland. 20, 30 years down the road what's it going to be like?

Is that what we want?

I don't think it is, yet we are going down the exact same path as those before us in the expectation we are somehow special and can defy gravity.

I don't think we can.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People have been saying this country and that country are f*cked because of immigration since probably after WW2, well none of them are really f*cked are they? The economic powerhouses of Germany and France, which are delightful places to visit of course, apart from a few shady neighbourhoods you're not going to go near anyway. London for the most part is a melting pot of cultures, never had any trouble while living there. I mean life is too short to worry about this stuff.
Also many European countries like France had no problem invading countries to hoover up their resources in the past.

We will see in 20 years from now who is right or not