Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

daymobrew

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, they didn't do anything. But a number of their Councillors were taking credit for making the OPW extend the closure of the gates indefinitely. Thats not possible without the formal extinguishment of the rights of way over those accesses, so both parties should have known that. It was just naive on the Greens part.

The petition to prevent through traffic didn't mention keeping gates closed. The word "gate" is not even in it. Many did not see this.

That petition is still a valid goal, even with gates reopened.


I wrote to Jack Chambers yesterday morning, to submit an alternative view. I said I was okay with gates being reopened, okay with cyclists moved back onto off road cycle track. I asked for two things - block through traffic and make it safer for me to cycle to the Phoenix Park.

My family cycled to Bull Island yesterday. 39km round trip. We went along the Royal Canal towpath to North Strand and then onto cycle track in front of Clontarf. It was really nice, it was peaceful and we felt safe. We don't feel that way cycling down Carpenterstown Road between The Carpenter and Tower Road.

trellheim

At no point were any rights of way tampered with, people could walk all the places they could before, and the park is a space run by OPW so their rules are what matter.


As I said up-thread, this is just the local td throwing a stroke to let punters shave 60 secs off their commuting times. Look at the posters complaining vociferously about having it reopened - it's all about " I need to go through the park" and "let me park there for free during the working day" . The bang of entitlement here is unreal

jim salter

trellheim wrote: »

At no point were any rights of way tampered with, people could walk all the places they could before, and the park is a space run by OPW so their rules are what matter.


As I said up-thread, this is just the local td throwing a stroke to let punters shave 60 secs off their commuting times. Look at the posters complaining vociferously about having it reopened - it's all about " I need to go through the park" and "let me park there for free during the working day" . The bang of entitlement here is unreal

Delighted to see all gates open again, hope more and more people use it to get to work now. :rolleyes:

Firstly it is not 60 seconds, it's significantly more.

Secondly, I am complaining and it has nothing to do with getting to work. Living more than 7 km from the park and liking to use the amenity with only 2 gates open makes getting in/out of the park a nightmare.

Have to laugh at all the tree huggers who live within walking distance wanting to keep the amenity all for themselves bang of elitism and privilege (I am privileged entitled, I live by the park so keep the great unwashed out) Bang of entitlement here is unreal.

Also have to laugh at the poster who found it difficult to differentiate between the walking path and the cycling path. With stupidity like that we stand no chance

Shefwedfan

jim salter wrote: »

Delighted to see all gates open again, hope more and more people use it to get to work now. :rolleyes:

Firstly it is not 60 seconds, it's significantly more.

Secondly, I am complaining and it has nothing to do with getting to work. Living more than 7 km from the park and liking to use the amenity with only 2 gates open makes getting in/out of the park a nightmare.

Have to laugh at all the tree huggers who live within walking distance wanting to keep the amenity all for themselves bang of elitism and privilege (I am privileged entitled, I live by the park so keep the great unwashed out) Bang of entitlement here is unreal.

Also have to laugh at the poster who found it difficult to differentiate between the walking path and the cycling path. With stupidity like that we stand no chance

I live 20km away and I go park all the time, the two gates made no difference. My options are M3 or M50 so have to go by car or it would be a long trip on bike. If you live 7km away that is what, maybe 20 mins on a bike? but you feel the need to bring your car?


Really says it all in this post. The only bit I do agree with is "With stupidity like that we stand no chance"

beauf

daymobrew wrote: »

....

I wrote to Jack Chambers yesterday morning, to submit an alternative view. I said I was okay with gates being reopened, okay with cyclists moved back onto off road cycle track. I asked for two things - block through traffic and make it safer for me to cycle to the Phoenix Park.

My family cycled to Bull Island yesterday. 39km round trip. We went along the Royal Canal towpath to North Strand and then onto cycle track in front of Clontarf. It was really nice, it was peaceful and we felt safe. We don't feel that way cycling down Carpenterstown Road between The Carpenter and Tower Road.

How does stopping through traffic make Carpenterstown Road and Tower Road safer.

If you can do a 40k cycle you could cycle down the Royal Canal and access the park at Ashtown.

You can cut through college gate to avoid the road at Castleknock College. Or just use the Castleknock gate.

But shows how little they really think about cycling that the routes to the park from D15 are so bad. No cycling lanes etc

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I live 20km away and I go park all the time, the two gates made no difference. My options are M3 or M50 so have to go by car or it would be a long trip on bike. If you live 7km away that is what, maybe 20 mins on a bike? but you feel the need to bring your car?


Really says it all in this post. The only bit I do agree with is "With stupidity like that we stand no chance"

Not really YOU should use public transport apparently.

You're complaining about it being a long trip on a bike, but have no problem making someone else's trip longer.

Time isn't an issue. Since 60 secs is now what every journey takes.

Hurrache

daymobrew wrote: »

My family cycled to Bull Island yesterday. 39km round trip. We went along the Royal Canal towpath to North Strand and then onto cycle track in front of Clontarf. It was really nice, it was peaceful and we felt safe. We don't feel that way cycling down Carpenterstown Road between The Carpenter and Tower Road.

That's a cool cycle, where did you join the Clontarf cycle track, which way did you go from the Whitworth Road/Drumcondra Road junction?

beauf wrote: »

down the Royal Canal and access the park at Ashtown.

I'm sure you know what that's like yourself, never mind kids. Why on earth would you cycle with kids anywhere near the Halfway House roundabout.

Hurrache

jim salter wrote: »

Have to laugh at all the tree huggers

You know to immediately bin a posters post when they mention this rubbish.

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

Not really YOU should use public transport apparently.

You're complaining about it being a long trip on a bike, but have no problem making someone else's trip longer.

Time isn't an issue. Since 60 secs is now what every journey takes.

I normally park outside the park and walk in, along blackhorse, loads of spots and in via Garda station into zoo....boom ....kids love the walk and of course hugging the odd tree

My preference would be park n ride at half way house of course and train from M3 parkway to it


Im not complaining about anything, I lived beside tesco for years and we cycled everytime to park. Just asking why someone who is right beside park needs to bring a car??

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I normally park outside the park and walk in, along blackhorse, loads of spots and in via Garda station into zoo....boom ....kids love the walk and of course hugging the odd tree

My preference would be park n ride at half way house of course and train from M3 parkway to it


Im not complaining about anything, I lived beside tesco for years and we cycled everytime to park. Just asking why someone who is right beside park needs to bring a car??

Yet you drive to it and are complaining about someone else driving to it.

No one needs to drive it only saves 60 secs. Wasn't that the point of the thread.

beauf

Hurrache wrote: »

You know to immediately bin a posters post when they mention this rubbish.

I know you can ignore someone's post. But how do you "bin" in it. Or is that not a real thing either...

beauf

Hurrache wrote: »

That's a cool cycle, where did you join the Clontarf cycle track, which way did you go from the Whitworth Road/Drumcondra Road junction?



I'm sure you know what that's like yourself, never mind kids. Why on earth would you cycle with kids anywhere near the Halfway House roundabout.

Because to get anywhere you always have to cycle on a road at some point. Because nothing joins up. So regardless of which route you go you will be on a road somewhere. Ashtown is the closest exit from the Royal Canal to the park. If you like going via the canal.

But it's a shorter cycle from ashtown than from carpenters road. I also gave the alternatives of college gate and castleknock gate. Not that distance is an issue.

trellheim

Secondly, I am complaining and it has nothing to do with getting to work. Living more than 7 km from the park and liking to use the amenity with only 2 gates open makes getting in/out of the park a nightmare.

At no point were you stopped from walking or cycling through any of the gates

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

Yet you drive to it and are complaining about someone else driving to it.

No one needs to drive it only saves 60 secs. Wasn't that the point of the thread.

Yes, I drive to the park. Hence why I had a huge discussion with you about ParkNRide, you sudddenly forget that?

As I mentioned when I was closer I cycled. 7km is close? do you not think?

No idea what your going on about 60 sec for??

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes, I drive to the park. Hence why I had a huge discussion with you about ParkNRide, you sudddenly forget that?

As I mentioned when I was closer I cycled. 7km is close? do you not think?

No idea what your going on about 60 sec for??

Whats your definition of "close"

People pick some arbitrary metric for distance or time as reasonable and ignore that its entirely subjective and situational.

That being the case. Time and distance is no longer a factor. So every journey is only 60 sec. Its like those people in work who think everything takes 2 mins. Then can't understand why their project has overrun by 6 months.

Phil.x

And just like that, case closed.

beauf

OPW make unilateral decision without consultation....

At least they are consistent...

daymobrew

beauf wrote: »

How does stopping through traffic make Carpenterstown Road and Tower Road safer.

In my email I said:
In my opinion a core issue is getting people out of their cars. I constantly see my neighbours drive 1.5km to Spar or to Porterstown Park (which is 1km walk/cycle). This blinkered view of transport modes is the problem.
and
Safety is a concern, even for me as a regular cyclist. Motor vehicles need to be slowed down to make others feel safe enough to cycle.
I am looking at the bigger picture.

beauf wrote: »

If you can do a 40k cycle you could cycle down the Royal Canal and access the park at Ashtown.

You can cut through college gate to avoid the road at Castleknock College. Or just use the Castleknock gate.

We have taken 4 different routes to the Phoenix Park. Distances are to Visitor Centre.

The most direct, past Castleknock College gates, is 5.5km.
The next is via Collegefort at 6.3km.
Then through Laurel Lodge, past Russell Park, through Phoenix Park Racecourse and into Ashtown gate. This is the quietest. This is 7.05km.
Finally is Laurel Lodge, Royal Canal Greenway to Ashtown. Crossing N3 is a pain. This is 7.3km.

I would prefer to take the shortest route but I do not feel safe doing so with my children. I expect that those that cycle less regularly than us feel unsafe on roads that we are okay on.

beauf wrote: »

But shows how little they really think about cycling that the routes to the park from D15 are so bad. No cycling lanes etc

This is what I was trying to highlight. I should have been more explicit.

Hurrache wrote: »

That's a cool cycle, where did you join the Clontarf cycle track, which way did you go from the Whitworth Road/Drumcondra Road junction?

Stayed on canal towpath to North Strand (made mistake and got off early but crossed road and back onto towpath), quiet on road to Alfie Byrne Road cycle track and onto Clontarf.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/5213298517

Hurrache wrote: »

I'm sure you know what that's like yourself, never mind kids. Why on earth would you cycle with kids anywhere near the Halfway House roundabout.

This is a pain alright. Bus Connects plans to convert the roundabout to a traffic light controlled cross roads. That might help.

IngazZagni

daymobrew wrote: »

This is a pain alright. Bus Connects plans to convert the roundabout to a traffic light controlled cross roads. That might help.

Oh my goodness that would be awful. Traffic gridlock as a large amount of traffic turns right in both directions. This will block the bus lane flow. I would like to see a zebra crossing here and a means of slowing cars down.

The park back to normal today. Sound of birds replaced with car noise.

Former Former

trellheim wrote: »

At no point were you stopped from walking or cycling through any of the gates

Again.

How does one get to the gates if not in a car?

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes, I drive to the park. Hence why I had a huge discussion with you about ParkNRide, you sudddenly forget that?

As I mentioned when I was closer I cycled. 7km is close? do you not think?

No idea what your going on about 60 sec for??

Anything up to Clonsilla train station is within range of a bike do you not think? Even parts of Ongar/Clonee

daymobrew

IngazZagni wrote: »

Oh my goodness that would be awful. Traffic gridlock as a large amount of traffic turns right in both directions. This will block the bus lane flow. I would like to see a zebra crossing here and a means of slowing cars down.

I couldn't find the map quickly but found:
https://irishcycle.com/2019/02/06/heres-how-busconnects-plans-change-the-navan-road-part-b/

trellheim

Again.

How does one get to the gates if not in a car?

you can use any means you want. For example you can walk, cycle, scooter, bus ( to most of the gates, not all ) , rail isn't too far away Heuston or Maynooth line , and LUAS runs really close, 5-6 mins walk , canal if thats your fancy. Finally you can use a car if you like.

Remember folks the Park was NOT closed to cars except at the start of COVID , those who wanted to access were still allowed when they reopened Chesterfield

All I see is punters knocking 60 secs off the commute , this isn't about park users, its about park abusers who just want a ratrun and free parking during the working day.

beauf

daymobrew wrote: »

In my email I said:
In my opinion a core issue is getting people out of their cars. I constantly see my neighbours drive 1.5km to Spar or to Porterstown Park (which is 1km walk/cycle). This blinkered view of transport modes is the problem.
and
Safety is a concern, even for me as a regular cyclist. Motor vehicles need to be slowed down to make others feel safe enough to cycle.
I am looking at the bigger picture.

We have taken 4 different routes to the Phoenix Park. Distances are to Visitor Centre.

The most direct, past Castleknock College gates, is 5.5km.
The next is via Collegefort at 6.3km.
Then through Laurel Lodge, past Russell Park, through Phoenix Park Racecourse and into Ashtown gate. This is the quietest. This is 7.05km.
Finally is Laurel Lodge, Royal Canal Greenway to Ashtown. Crossing N3 is a pain. This is 7.3km....

None of this has got anything to do with through traffic in the park. Since you'll still be passing that traffic on the roads outside the park, and in the park. Since all traffic has to go up the Ave to get to the visitor center, or Farmleigh for example. Only solution to that is to stop all cars in the park. Doesn't fix outside the park. So they are unrelated in that regard.

People have lots of reasons to use their cars. They might simply be short on time. But the idea here is that is that only people with more ability and more time should be given access the park.

There are lots of solutions. Tolls, parking fines, open up other entrances (farmleight etc). But instead the most nuclear options (on both sides) are the only ones people want with no compromise (on either side).

My least favorite part of cycling across the city are the roads in D15. The infrastructure is scatterbrained, and dis jointed. The traffic aggressive, fast and rarely policed. You have to do circular awkward routes especially with less experienced and/or younger cyclists.

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Anything up to Clonsilla train station is within range of a bike do you not think? Even parts of Ongar/Clonee

Lance Armstrong would say anythign within 200k is easy cycle. Kid on a balance bike? ummm.

beauf

trellheim wrote: »

you can use any means you want. For example you can walk, cycle, scooter, bus ( to most of the gates, not all ) , rail isn't too far away Heuston or Maynooth line , and LUAS runs really close, 5-6 mins walk , canal if thats your fancy. Finally you can use a car if you like.

Remember folks the Park was NOT closed to cars except at the start of COVID , those who wanted to access were still allowed when they reopened Chesterfield

All I see is punters knocking 60 secs off the commute , this isn't about park users, its about park abusers who just want a ratrun and free parking during the working day.

What journey specifically is 60 secs shorter.

IngazZagni

daymobrew wrote: »

I couldn't find the map quickly but found:
https://irishcycle.com/2019/02/06/heres-how-busconnects-plans-change-the-navan-road-part-b/

Oof thats quite a confusing looking junction. The creation of an additional junction just up the road does adress some of my concerns but while it may be a slight positive for cyclists, overall I see it as a complete mess. An expensive mess. Traffic flows reasonably well at this junction already. Better cycling provisions need to be made though.

Former Former

trellheim wrote: »

you can use any means you want. For example you can walk, cycle, scooter, bus ( to most of the gates, not all ) , rail isn't too far away Heuston or Maynooth line , and LUAS runs really close, 5-6 mins walk , canal if thats your fancy. Finally you can use a car if you like.

Remember folks the Park was NOT closed to cars except at the start of COVID , those who wanted to access were still allowed when they reopened Chesterfield

All I see is punters knocking 60 secs off the commute , this isn't about park users, its about park abusers who just want a ratrun and free parking during the working day.

So this is the issue.

YOU can walk, cycle or scooter. I cannot because I have small kids and live about 5km from the park. I cannot walk or cycle with them. I can't scooter because, well, I'm a grown man.

No one can use public transport to get to the park because there's a global viral pandemic. I'm sick of having to say this but people keep suggesting it even though we all know it's not viable. You can also tell that the people suggesting it do not have kids, even in the absence of Covid it is not an option for small kids.

So the car is the only option. I work from home and have no need of rat runs. I would however like to use the park for its intended purpose. I am not a "park abuser". I have been going there probably once or twice a week for the last 10 years, in my car, and I make absolutely no apologies for it.

You want the park to be set up in a way that suits YOU. That's fine, but it would be good if the cycling lobby and local residents recognised that others want to use it too.

Hurrache

IngazZagni wrote: »

Oh my goodness that would be awful. Traffic gridlock as a large amount of traffic turns right in both directions. This will block the bus lane flow. I would like to see a zebra crossing here and a means of slowing cars down.

It's gridlocked as it is, you'll often have traffic queuing from Ashtown on the other side of the railway crossing, and backed up along the N3 itself citybound.

But you're looking at this from the point of view that motors should be prioritised over people cycling and walking and wanting to cross that junction.

IngazZagni

Hurrache wrote: »

It's gridlocked as it is, you'll often have traffic queuing from Ashtown on the other side of the railway crossing, and backed up along the N3 itself citybound.

But you're looking at this from the point of view that motors should be prioritised over people cycling and walking and wanting to cross that junction.

Nope I'm not. I praised Roderic Ogorman for helping to get the pedestrian lights just up from that junction. It increased traffic though but pedestrians needed a safe place to cross.

The Ashtown traffic from the railway should be addressed in part by the building an overpass as part of the Dart expansion programme.

I simply believe a roundabout is far more efficient here than a traffic controlled junction with a large amount of right turning traffic and u turning traffic (as required by Fingals own development plans)