Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

Hurrache

IngazZagni wrote: »

The Ashtown traffic from the railway should be addressed in part by the building an overpass as part of the Dart expansion programme.

It's not the railway crossing that's the issue, the traffic is backed up from the Halfway House roundabout, as far as the other side of the crossing into Ashtown at times. An overpass doesn't solve this.

A roundabout is only efficient for cars, it's awful for pedestrians and cyclists.

IngazZagni

Hurrache wrote: »

It's not the railway crossing that's the issue, the traffic is backed up from the Halfway House roundabout, as far as the other side of the crossing into Ashtown at times. An overpass doesn't solve this.

A roundabout is only efficient for cars, it's awful for pedestrians and cyclists.

This traffic is usually caused by large volumes of cars getting to the junction at the same time after waiting for the manually operated gates to open. A more even spread of cars with an overpass should reduce this.

I think zebra crossings along with ramps to slow cars down at the crossing on all 4 sections would be a great idea.

trellheim

YOU can walk, cycle or scooter. I cannot because I have small kids and live about 5km from the park. I cannot walk or cycle with them. I can't scooter because, well, I'm a grown man.

So drive and park - e.g. the car park at the Hole in the wall boozer and walk in ? whats wrong with that ? Follow that and you're at the Aras roundabout in < 10 mins walking with small kids there was a ton of folks doing just that during covid

daymobrew

I didn't know that this was published.

Draft Phoenix Park Visitor Experience Strategic Review - Analysis of Submissions received - December 2019
http://phoenixpark.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Analysis-of-submissions-received-2019-English-version.pdf

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

So this is the issue.

YOU can walk, cycle or scooter. I cannot because I have small kids and live about 5km from the park. I cannot walk or cycle with them. I can't scooter because, well, I'm a grown man.

The side gates being closed makes no difference to you driving to & parking in the park?

jim salter

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I live 20km away and I go park all the time, the two gates made no difference. My options are M3 or M50 so have to go by car or it would be a long trip on bike. If you live 7km away that is what, maybe 20 mins on a bike? but you feel the need to bring your car?


Really says it all in this post. The only bit I do agree with is "With stupidity like that we stand no chance"

You clearly know my personal circumstances - clown

Former Former

trellheim wrote: »

So drive and park - e.g. the car park at the Hole in the wall boozer and walk in ? whats wrong with that ? Follow that and you're at the Aras roundabout in < 10 mins walking with small kids there was a ton of folks doing just that during covid

Because that doesn't solve anything, it just moves the problem.

How long would the Hole in the Wall tolerate their car park being full with non-customers? It didn't matter when the pub was closed, but now it's not feasible.

Or there's on-street parking - but why should local residents put up with the likes of me parking on their street? They won't.

jim salter

Hurrache wrote: »

You know to immediately bin a posters post when they mention this rubbish.

That's your prerogative. Just because you don't like doesn't mean it's wrong (or right)

Former Former

bubblypop wrote: »

The side gates being closed makes no difference to you driving to & parking in the park?

Yes it does.

By funnelling all the traffic through two gates, you create unnecessary bottlenecks at Castleknock and Parkgate St. Nobody is going to take the kids to the park if it takes them an hour to get back out.

daymobrew

Former Former wrote: »

YOU can walk, cycle or scooter. I cannot because I have small kids and live about 5km from the park. I cannot walk or cycle with them. I can't scooter because, well, I'm a grown man.

You *could* cycle them but it's just not for you (I do not mean this personally or in a derogatory way).
As mentioned earlier, I'm about 5.5km from the visitor centre.
Before they got their own bikes I carried both my kids on my bike to school, shops and the zoo.

When I only have one on my bike I sometimes carried his balance bike in one of my panniers.

I fully concede that such stuff is not for everyone but I think that people are too quick to rule even lesser non-car things out.

trellheim

How long would the Hole in the Wall tolerate their car park being full with non-customers? It didn't matter when the pub was closed, but now it's not feasible.

Looks like ANY example of any gate to the park would not work for you even if I gave you an outside parking place for every single gate

beauf

daymobrew wrote: »

....
I fully concede that such stuff is not for everyone but I think that people are too quick to rule even lesser non-car things out...

Its about convenience.

If you tell me I can't drive to the park in 5 mins, so I can have a 30 mins walk. 40 mins total.

This will now take 20 mins each way and the walk, now taking 70 mins. (and I'm generous, because you have to get the bikes out and unlocked, and repeat it going one). Then it might no longer be viable.

That in itself is fine. But society has to make a decision its going to make a lot of journeys inconvenient, to force people out of cars. That's before you get into a whole load of other reason why cycling might not be viable.

beauf

trellheim wrote: »

Looks like ANY example of any gate to the park would not work for you even if I gave you an outside parking place for every single gate

Well you never answered the question about the 60 sec journey time.

So I expect you won't explain how everyone's meant to park in a pub cark park either.

I assume we'll be right back to Everyone park on Connyingham road/R109 again.

beauf

Former Former wrote: »

Yes it does.

By funnelling all the traffic through two gates, you create unnecessary bottlenecks at Castleknock and Parkgate St. Nobody is going to take the kids to the park if it takes them an hour to get back out.

Likewise if takes an hour just to get to and from it, walking or cycling.

But thats really a trade off. Which ever side you are on.

Former Former

trellheim wrote: »

Looks like ANY example of any gate to the park would not work for you even if I gave you an outside parking place for every single gate

Correct - because the same issues apply to every single one you can name.

Now, if we start building dedicated car parks outside the Park, then we can talk. Until then, it's a non-suggestion.

Edit; I'm not suggesting we actually do build dedicated car parks, just to be clear on that.

ronivek

beauf wrote: »

Its about convenience.

It's also about access. There are plenty of people who are unable to cycle for numerous health reasons but for example would not qualify for disabled parking. Limiting parking to a small number of car parks restricts their access to areas of the park.

You can argue until the cows come home about how much parking should be available in the park or which roads should or should not be open to traffic; but the reality is that this amenity was open and available to these people and suddenly for reasons of 'the national emergency' it no longer was.

beauf

ronivek wrote: »

It's also about access. There are plenty of people who are unable to cycle for numerous health reasons but for example would not qualify for disabled parking. Limiting parking to a small number of car parks restricts their access to areas of the park.

You can argue until the cows come home about how much parking should be available in the park or which roads should or should not be open to traffic; but the reality is that this amenity was open and available to these people and suddenly for reasons of 'the national emergency' it no longer was.

Thats why I said...

beauf wrote: »

..... That's before you get into a whole load of other reason why cycling might not be viable.

Ultimately they just want to ban cars from the place.

jackofalltrades

ligerdub wrote: »

There's already cycle lanes going down there, designated as such. The pre lockdown way was perfectly fine.

Yes lets look at the "perfectly fine" cycle path that was there before.
https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/878939127621849088

Former Former wrote: »

But this is a compromise. Gates are back open, but parking is vastly reduced and cycle lanes on the Avenue are much improved.

I'd be reluctantly happy with that but I can't see this situation lasting.
Opening all the gates is going to vastly increase the amount of cars wanting to park there.
The existing car parks are going to fill up fairly fast, then people are going to abandon their cars anywhere they can.
It's only a matter of time before some dickhead moves the cones and decides to park on Chesterfield avenue and everyone else follows him/her.

ronivek

beauf wrote: »

Ultimately they just want to ban cars from the place.

Which as a long term goal I doubt the vast majority would have any issues with; assuming it was done without significantly impacting those who use the park as an amenity.

Treppen

ronivek wrote: »

Which as a long term goal I doubt the vast majority - of locals -would have any issues with; assuming it was done without significantly impacting those who use the park as an amenity.

FYP

ronivek

Treppen wrote: »

FYP

What issues would non-locals have with that goal? Or do you specifically mean those non-locals who use the park to commute and not as an amenity?

beauf

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Yes lets look at the "perfectly fine" cycle path that was there before.
https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/878939127621849088
I'd be reluctantly happy with that but I can't see this situation lasting.
Opening all the gates is going to vastly increase the amount of cars wanting to park there.
The existing car parks are going to fill up fairly fast, then people are going to abandon their cars anywhere they can.
It's only a matter of time before some dickhead moves the cones and decides to park on Chesterfield avenue and everyone else follows him/her.

I'm open to correction but that seems to be a Sunday afternoon in Summer from 3yrs ago.

jackofalltrades

beauf wrote: »

I'm open to correction but that seems to be a Sunday afternoon in Summer from 3yrs ago.

That's why I posted it.
Posters are constantly saying that the old cycle path was fine.
That video shows the various problems that it had.

Larbre34

I'm still loving the characterisation of reopening the gates as a unilateral OPW decision.

I and others put significant pressure on OPW to remind them of their statutory obligations. They could not simply leave so-called emergency measures in place indefinitely on a wink and a nod.

A full consultation process on traffic and transport issues around the Park has been committed too, anyone thats feeling in any way butthurt about this, can get involved with it when the time comes.

This is a great day for due process and transparency, not being rode roughshod over by certain vocal zealous lobbies.

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

Lance Armstrong would say anythign within 200k is easy cycle. Kid on a balance bike? ummm.

Bike trailer, stick balance bike in back for park

Shefwedfan

jim salter wrote: »

You clearly know my personal circumstances - clown

So your ok to insult people and call them tree huggers but anyone questions you and suddenly they are a clown?

Clown is exactly the term I would use

beauf

jackofalltrades wrote: »

That's why I posted it.
Posters are constantly saying that the old cycle path was fine.
That video shows the various problems that it had.

Considering its a Sunday afternoon, peak summer. I'm not seeing how meeting 4 groups of people who moved aside, for the cyclist as much of a problem for that cyclist.

Yes the layout is far from ideal, and there are days and evenings when its impossible to cycle on it. But that video does not show that.

Interesting how many cars using the park for recreation are parked on the Ave though. Far more than there would be a work day.

Yes I'd like the layout improved and I the idea of cycle superhighway. D15 to City center. But I think the Park is the least off discouraging part of that route to less experienced cyclists.

Shefwedfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm still loving the characterisation of reopening the gates as a unilateral OPW decision.

I and others put significant pressure on OPW to remind them of their statutory obligations. They could not simply leave so-called emergency measures in place indefinitely on a wink and a nod.

A full consultation process on traffic and transport issues around the Park has been committed too, anyone thats feeling in any way butthurt about this, can get involved with it when the time comes.

This is a great day for due process and transparency, not being rode roughshod over by certain vocal zealous lobbies.

At one stage you knew Jack Chambers and where heading in to discuss it, in fact you sent an email :-)

Couldn’t be bothered walking down to his offices? :-)

You have to see the funny side of that :-)

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Bike trailer, stick balance bike in back for park

I see so your answer to how far is "far", so for example a 200k distance, is buy a trailer.

Simple solution to all this is try it for 12 months (12 normal months). Close all gates. See the results.

Patser

What about other sports users that use the amenities in the park? There are a lot of sports grounds scattered around the park - football pitches, GAA grounds, cricket and of course the polo grounds.

Are you suggesting that Polo players park their cars and horse boxes outside the park and ride in - Park and ride brought to a whole new literal level - to play their matches? Will there be dedicated horse and rider lanes? Will you be allowed bring your pony on the LUAS or train?

Other sports too need a lot of gear, ever see the size of the bags the cricketers carry for pads, bats etc - not to mention tea and scones for their breaks? Are they to carry all that in on a few km walk to get to their grounds? Are people to cycle 20km for a match, then cycle on home after a 90 minutes game?