Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

trellheim

Well you never answered the question about the 60 sec journey time

which 60 seconds ? The ones you are saving cos thats all anyones gonna save here.

And as for the poster complaining about statutory obligations the OPW can do what they like

"The Commissioners may from time to time make such alterations and improvements in the arrangement, laying out, planting, draining, and fencing of the Park as they think proper for all or any of the purposes aforesaid, and in particular may from time to time make, open, and maintain such new roads and paths in the Park, and from time to time close and break-up such then existing roads and paths in the Park, as they think proper." Phoenix park 1925 act .

As for Rights of way, none were infringed, anybody could walk anywhere they could before, hence no infringement.

Spanish Eyes

Patser wrote: »

What about other sports users that use the amenities in the park? There are a lot of sports grounds scattered around the park - football pitches, GAA grounds, cricket and of course the polo grounds.

Are you suggesting that Polo players park their cars and horse boxes outside the park and ride in - Park and ride brought to a whole new literal level - to play their matches? Will there be dedicated horse and rider lanes? Will you be allowed bring your pony on the LUAS or train?

Other sports too need a lot of gear, ever see the size of the bags the cricketers carry for pads, bats etc - not to mention tea and scones for their breaks? Are they to carry all that in on a few km walk to get to their grounds? Are people to cycle 20km for a match, then cycle on home after a 90 minutes game?

Up to the 15 acres with the lot of them I say, sports galore, all within the one area. In through Chappo Gate and out again. Sorted

ligerdub

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Really shows the irish attitude to the car. "Hey there's a long stretch of road with a hard shoulder going through a lovely park. Let's convert it into a car park".

What difference does it make? You're just closing down the option and making it inconvenient for people to access by having it shut. It's a needless and snidey tactic.

What would you rather do, get them to park in the nearest housing estate? That'll go down well with the locals......not to mention the chronic traffic problems that would bring to bottleneck areas! The public transport alternative is not an alternative, it is simply not convenient to most people. The other alternative of course if just that less people have realistic access to it, but I guess that is the preferred option for some people......a quasi massive back garden and miniature deer zoo for the people of Castleknock.

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

I see so your answer to how far is "far", so for example a 200k distance, is buy a trailer.

Simple solution to all this is try it for 12 months (12 normal months). Close all gates. See the results.

I said up to Clonsilla train station is within riding distance, I made the assumption that’s with kids either in bike or in seat on back

I have no problem with close all for 12 months once they have a parknride in place or it will fail

At the moment stopping all parking in main avenue and shutting down half the park every weekend is a decent start

ligerdub

bubblypop wrote: »

Plenty of place for cars to park away from the avenue.
No need for it there.

The park is a big place, the avenue dissects it almost perfectly in two. Parking here adds little issue at all, in fact it's possibly one of the great example of a well thought out and sensibly executed policy I can think of in this city.

By removing the option to park here you are forcing people to take a side, and it also creates unnecessary potential bottlenecks in other parts of the park where there is quite rightly as you say, plenty of space. The problem with your argument is that the plenty of space soon becomes not so plenty at all.

There absolutely is a need for it in my opinion.

Shefwedfan

Patser wrote: »

What about other sports users that use the amenities in the park? There are a lot of sports grounds scattered around the park - football pitches, GAA grounds, cricket and of course the polo grounds.

Are you suggesting that Polo players park their cars and horse boxes outside the park and ride in - Park and ride brought to a whole new literal level - to play their matches? Will there be dedicated horse and rider lanes? Will you be allowed bring your pony on the LUAS or train?

Other sports too need a lot of gear, ever see the size of the bags the cricketers carry for pads, bats etc - not to mention tea and scones for their breaks? Are they to carry all that in on a few km walk to get to their grounds? Are people to cycle 20km for a match, then cycle on home after a 90 minutes game?

This is the level of stupidity that is normal on boards

VonLuck

They appear to be installing a proper footpath along the road from Chesterfield Avenue to the Papal Cross. Hopefully this will stop cars parking up on the grass along this stretch.

Patser

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Up to the 15 acres with the lot of them I say, sports galore, all within the one area. In through Chappo Gate and out again. Sorted

But that still needs car access and parking, while others are arguing to shut park off to motor access.

Also leads to questions about the polo grounds stands - do they get pick up and moved? Also the changing rooms, and other facilities at polo grounds and cricket grounds would then be defunct unless moved.

But I would be intruiged by a hurling-polo-cricket hybrid game

Patser

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This is the level of stupidity that is normal on boards

What's your answer to the polo grounds location then?
And cricketers?
And footballers?

Or you just going to throw abuse and ignore problem?

beauf

trellheim wrote: »

which 60 seconds ? The ones you are saving cos thats all anyones gonna save here.

...

Can you give an example say using Google maps of going around the park vs though it only saving 60 secs.

You seem to be saying Archimedes was wrong about distance.

Spanish Eyes

Patser wrote: »

But that still needs car access and parking, while others are arguing to shut park off to motor access.

Also leads to questions about the polo grounds stands - do they get pick up and moved? Also the changing rooms, and other facilities at polo grounds and cricket grounds would then be defunct unless moved.

But I would be intruiged by a hurling-polo-cricket hybrid game

LOL, a bit of humour helps everything.

Yes I know cars will win this argument in the long run, but if they are corralled within say the 15 acres for sports of all kinds and cannot criss cross the park, it might work.

The minister for Sports could give a grant to move everything over to the one area. I'd have no issue with my taxes being used that way.

Must email yer man Jack C.

ligerdub

jackofalltrades wrote: »

That's why I posted it.
Posters are constantly saying that the old cycle path was fine.
That video shows the various problems that it had.

To be fair I wouldn't disagree with you on that. In theory though it should operate efficiently. I think this could be resolved if instead of having the cycle lane adjacent to the road and the pedestrian one further in from the road, that this could be reversed? People are just getting out of cars and walking on the cycle path, whereas if this was a pedestrian lane then there's no motivation to take the lane further from the road.

(I could be missing some sort of best practice on cycle lanes here so I'm open to correction)

beauf

Patser wrote: »

What's your answer to the polo grounds location then?
And cricketers?
And footballers?

Or you just going to throw abuse and ignore problem?

You need to use public transport. Walk or cycle. Use a trailer on your bicycle. I assume for polo you use the horse to get there.

Spanish Eyes

ligerdub wrote: »

To be fair I wouldn't disagree with you on that. In theory though it should operate efficiently. I think this could be resolved if instead of having the cycle lane adjacent to the road and the pedestrian one further in from the road, that this could be reversed? People are just getting out of cars and walking on the cycle path, whereas if this was a pedestrian lane then there's no motivation to take the lane further from the road.

(I could be missing some sort of best practice on cycle lanes here so I'm open to correction)

I've always thought the same thing TBH. Pedestrians on the footpath, cyclists on the inside track. It is natural instinct for walkers to use the footpath, and therein lies the "conflict".

But I am sure I will be corrected on this admirably intelligent solution!

beauf

ligerdub wrote: »

To be fair I wouldn't disagree with you on that. In theory though it should operate efficiently. I think this could be resolved if instead of having the cycle lane adjacent to the road and the pedestrian one further in from the road, that this could be reversed? People are just getting out of cars and walking on the cycle path, whereas if this was a pedestrian lane then there's no motivation to take the lane further from the road.

(I could be missing some sort of best practice on cycle lanes here so I'm open to correction)

The inner path last time I was on it was very uneven with roots rippling the path. But yeah seems to make sense. Only thing is some people want to go full speed on the cycle path, they don't treat it as leisure ride. They won't be happy with the inside path. They want the road free.

Patser

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

LOL, a bit of humour helps everything.

Yes I know cars will win this argument in the long run, but if they are corralled within say the 15 acres for sports of all kinds and cannot criss cross the park, it might work.

The minister for Sports could give a grant to move everything over to the one area. I'd have no issue with my taxes being used that way.

Must email yer man Jack C.

It mightn't be a bad idea to have centralised sporting facilities, whereby traffic could be localised and full proper facilities put in for all the sports to share, but still requires vehicle access and still puts everything in/out one gate - so on a busy sporting day, there's still a problem of congestion at Castleknock entrance and village.

The Phoenix park is a huge area, and with the grant money being mentioned above new, wider cycle trails and pathways could be built to open up other areas of the park currently inaccessible to bikes and well away from the main traffic congestion of the Aveneue

beauf

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

LOL, a bit of humour helps everything.

Yes I know cars will win this argument in the long run, but if they are corralled within say the 15 acres for sports of all kinds and cannot criss cross the park, it might work.

The minister for Sports could give a grant to move everything over to the one area. I'd have no issue with my taxes being used that way.

Must email yer man Jack C.

If they removed these facilities it would remove the incentive for people to drive to them. That's another way.

Patser

beauf wrote: »

If they removed these facilities it would remove the incentive for people to drive to them. That's another way.

So all sports are equal but one sport is more equal than others?

Larbre34

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At one stage you knew Jack Chambers and where heading in to discuss it, in fact you sent an email :-)

Couldn’t be bothered walking down to his offices? :-)

You have to see the funny side of that :-)

Spoke to him recently, spoke to his team on the phone, asked to send a detailed email to formalise it, which I did. That was presumably passed on, then got word back yesterday. I fail to see the humour....

Incidentally, myself and a good few others contacted Councillors and TDs from many parties over this. Making representations isn't some sort of stroke, thats what public representatives are there for, the clue is in the name.....

Spanish Eyes

beauf wrote: »

If they removed these facilities it would remove the incentive for people to drive to them. That's another way.

You mean get rid of sporting facilities everywhere within the park?

Well yes that would reduce traffic for sure, but I very much doubt if it would be a popular move at all for those who play/watch these sports.

I still prefer corralling them in the one (slightly underused) 15 acres area, and spend money on doing it. One way in, and one way out through Chappo. End of story, whether by cargo bike, foot, car or whatever. Plenty of parking at the cross which could be increased to include bike parking etc.

Spanish Eyes

Larbre34 wrote: »

Spoke to him recently, spoke to his team on the phone, asked to send a detailed email to formalise it, which I did. That was presumably passed on, then got word back yesterday. I fail to see the humour....

Incidentally, myself and a good few others contacted Councillors and TDs from many parties over this. Making representations isn't some sort of stroke, thats what public representatives are there for, the clue is in the name.....

That is NOT what a TD should be doing. They represent us all, this parish pump rubbish is just that, rubbish. It is County Councillors that should deal with local issues within their remit.

I am sick and tired of TDs getting involved in local matters and the councillors just sit back and do nothing much. My LPT is important as to how it is spent. The PP is a facility for everyone, not just those in JC's constituency.

beauf

Patser wrote: »

So all sports are equal but one sport is more equal than others?

Yes especially polo. They need to get off their high horse.

polesheep

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You mean get rid of sporting facilities everywhere within the park?

Well yes that would reduce traffic for sure, but I very much doubt if it would be a popular move at all for those who play/watch these sports.

I still prefer corralling them in the one (slightly underused) 15 acres area, and spend money on doing it. One way in, and one way out through Chappo. End of story, whether by cargo bike, foot, car or whatever. Plenty of parking at the cross which could be increased to include bike parking etc.

The 15 acres is one of the most popular areas in the park. Some people think all space in the park should be utilised for sports and activities. The nature and wilderness in the park are equally as important. Chapelizod gate is one way, when it was two way it was chaotic.

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

Yes it does.

By funnelling all the traffic through two gates, you create unnecessary bottlenecks at Castleknock and Parkgate St. Nobody is going to take the kids to the park if it takes them an hour to get back out.

It doesn't though, all this talk of traffic jams for an hour through the park is absolute BS

ronivek

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That is NOT what a TD should be doing. They represent us all, this parish pump rubbish is just that, rubbish. It is County Councillors that should deal with local issues within their remit.

I am sick and tired of TDs getting involved in local matters and the councillors just sit back and do nothing much. My LPT is important as to how it is spent. The PP is a facility for everyone, not just those in JC's constituency.

That’s literally one of the primary roles of a TD; to represent their constituents. What exactly do you think it is that they do?

ligerdub

ligerdub wrote: »

The park is a big place, the avenue dissects it almost perfectly in two. Parking here adds little issue at all, in fact it's possibly one of the great example of a well thought out and sensibly executed policy I can think of in this city.

Pedestrians appearing from in between parked cars in the avenue, while cars speed up & down the road, is a road traffic safely issue.
Lazy drivers want to park in the avenue.
Along with commuters who don't want to pay for parking in town.

Larbre34

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That is NOT what a TD should be doing. They represent us all, this parish pump rubbish is just that, rubbish. It is County Councillors that should deal with local issues within their remit.

I am sick and tired of TDs getting involved in local matters and the councillors just sit back and do nothing much. My LPT is important as to how it is spent. The PP is a facility for everyone, not just those in JC's constituency.

Well as you will have seen from the sh1tshow around the appointment of Ministers, especially in FF, that simply will not change until we move away from local multi-seat constituencies to a continental list system or hybrid list, but thats by the by.

As it happens, my representations were to take issue with the actions of a national body, i.e. the OPW, so why shouldn't I ask a national politician? If it was a Fingal CC or Dublin City Council issue, I'd have only contacted Councillors.

I'm laughing at your contention that the PP is for everyone, not just those in JCs constituency, thats been precisely my point all along!!

You seem to be mad as hell that the system is working pretty much as intended!

Spanish Eyes

polesheep wrote: »

The 15 acres is one of the most popular areas in the park. Some people think all space in the park should be utilised for sports and activities. The nature and wilderness in the park are equally as important. Chapelizod gate is one way, when it was two way it was chaotic.

Yes you are correct, Chap Gate is one way going in. Forgot that. But traffic could exit at Islandbridge via Military Road. Thus avoiding the main avenue. But that would involve removing the barriers on Military Road.

I dunno, the park is so vast, I'm getting very confused now. Time for a tea break.

mrslancaster

NegativeCreep wrote: »

It’s a public park meant for everyone, not just the select few who can stroll down to it.

you're right negativecreep and not everyone can stroll down to it anyway as some posters think.

Lots of disabled people that can only access parks and other such places by car. Also older people may need to get there by car to enjoy the park or people with medical issues. A family member had cancer some years ago and his wife drove him to the park regularly - there is no way he could have used public transport, and as for walking or cycling

Some posters on here seem to think that everyone can travel by foot/cycle/bus or luas but that's not so and the phoenix park is not only for locals or people who walk / cycle everywhere or people with small children that want to run around without cars in the area.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, surely we are not beyond coming up with a solution that is fair to every citizen.

murphyebass

As long as the cars don’t park in the trails I couldn’t give a ****e. Long live cyclocross!

Any road cyclist out for any sort of decent spin wouldn’t be cycling in the park anyway so it’s only those out for a toddle about the place on a Dublin bike or that who’d be affected by more traffic and pedestrians and sure they’re not in a rush anywhere so what’s the harm?

Let them in I say, great to see the park utilised and people enjoying it. Go watch the deer, kick a football, look at the trees, whatever. If that means you need to bring a car and park up so be it. It’s an amazing amenity that more people should enjoy.

It’s not just for Castleknockians.