Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

IngazZagni

liamog wrote: »

Visited the park this evening to walk the dog, had a lovely time, I've discovered this great trick to avoid parked cars. Did you know the majority of the park is not made of roads? It's amazing there are all these fields and forested bits with trails through them, makes for a great experience.

This is a bit condescending. You are correct in what you say especially during the summer. The winter is a different story and the grass trails tend to be waterlogged for much of the season so you need to stick to the paved paths which are often beside the roads.

hardybuck

I remember when the initial petition was started to close the gates by a Green Party councillor there was a concerted effort by a number of stakeholders to portray this as 'just a grassroots movement of concerned citizens' rather than a political movement by the Green Party.

In recent days we've seen a Green TDs from Waterford, Dublin Central and Dublin West, a Green Councillor from Pembroke, and a Green MEP all coming out and criticising the OPW for opening most of the gates.

So now there can be no debate at all about who is driving (excuse the pun) this agenda - the Green Party want the gates closed.

This is going to be a contentious issue by the time we're back in the ballot boxes again.

Skylinehead

hardybuck wrote: »

I remember when the initial petition was started to close the gates by a Green Party councillor there was a concerted effort by a number of stakeholders to portray this as 'just a grassroots movement of concerned citizens' rather than a political movement by the Green Party.

In recent days we've seen a Green TDs from Waterford, Dublin Central and Dublin West, a Green Councillor from Pembroke, and a Green MEP all coming out and criticising the OPW for opening most of the gates.

So now there can be no debate at all about who is driving (excuse the pun) this agenda - the Green Party want the gates closed.

This is going to be a contentious issue by the time we're back in the ballot boxes again.

Shock horror, an environmentalist party doesn't want cars all over a park.

hardybuck

Skylinehead wrote: »

Shock horror, an environmentalist party doesn't want cars all over a park.

Oh I completely agree - but as I say it was a little less obvious before.

Now there is no doubt that they've leeched onto the Park now and will use this for political capital over the coming period.

Birdie Num Num

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why? would it make any difference if it was 10 or 100?

Because he wants the gates to remain closed. Was it even 10 times? I would guess zero in 2019 while a councillor in Waterford and before he became a TD. Don't get me wrong, I generally give a green vote. However I strongly disagree with a crowd requesting the permanent closure of gates who have little or no experience of visiting or utilising the Park outside of a time when it was under restrictions for a pandemic. I think during those restrictions many people got a false impression of how the Park generally functions.

trellheim

So now there can be no debate at all about who is driving (excuse the pun) this agenda - the Green Party want the gates closed.

easy to demonise. I want them closed and I'm not a Green voter. ton of locals here dont want them open.

hardybuck

trellheim wrote: »

easy to demonise. I want them closed and I'm not a Green voter. ton of locals here dont want them open.

I don't think I'm demonising - that's not my intention. Tons of local people here are relieved that they're open too.

However I am signalling that this is now a Green Party project, and at the moment if looks like it's them alone who are leading that charge.

Former Former

trellheim wrote: »

easy to demonise. I want them closed and I'm not a Green voter. ton of locals here dont want them open.

That's easy to say when "here" is in the city and you can actually walk to the park.

For those of us in the burbs, it's very different. The locals here want the gates open.

zerosugarbuzz

IngazZagni wrote: »

This is a bit condescending. You are correct in what you say especially during the summer. The winter is a different story and the grass trails tend to be waterlogged for much of the season so you need to stick to the paved paths which are often beside the roads.

I walk in the park winter and summer and always walk in the grassy areas. You just need waterproof shoes, hiking boots or even wellies. In over 20 years of walking there I have never once had a problem caused by cars and I’ve had kids, dogs bikes etc with me. Leave the park alone.

zerosugarbuzz

trellheim wrote: »

easy to demonise. I want them closed and I'm not a Green voter. ton of locals here dont want them open.

And a ton more want them open, myself included.

trellheim

Sorry - to be clear I am no fan of having them closed to pedestrians. and in fact apart from the Gemma o Doherty fiasco, they never were . My issue is with motor cars, mainly those passing through but also those who do not give a stuff and park where they like

A reasonable compromise in my view was the two gates being left open but people just could not accept compromise ( and lets remember AGAIN - no gates were closed , no rights of way were interfered with , anyone could park outside and walk in - and they still can )

polesheep

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Would love to know how often Marc Ó Cathasaigh visits the Phoenix Park.

But doesn't the argument go that the "park is for everyone"?

polesheep

trellheim wrote: »

Sorry - to be clear I am no fan of having them closed to pedestrians. and in fact apart from the Gemma o Doherty fiasco, they never were . My issue is with motor cars, mainly those passing through but also those who do not give a stuff and park where they like

A reasonable compromise in my view was the two gates being left open but people just could not accept compromise ( and lets remember AGAIN - no gates were closed , no rights of way were interfered with , anyone could park outside and walk in - and they still can )

This. And close off all other roads leading off Chesterfield. Paid parking all along Chesterfield. Park up there and you have access to everything the Park has to offer. Plus the paid parking would do away with commuter parking.

Shefwedfan

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Because he wants the gates to remain closed. Was it even 10 times? I would guess zero in 2019 while a councillor in Waterford and before he became a TD. Don't get me wrong, I generally give a green vote. However I strongly disagree with a crowd requesting the permanent closure of gates who have little or no experience of visiting or utilising the Park outside of a time when it was under restrictions for a pandemic. I think during those restrictions many people got a false impression of how the Park generally functions.

So if he wanted the gate to remain open it wouldnt make a difference how many times he visited the park?

Former Former

polesheep wrote: »

But doesn't the argument go that the "park is for everyone"?

Ideally yes, that's why people are getting so exercised about the city centre Greens and the cycling lobby trying to make it difficult for the other 99% of the population to access it.

Or more correctly, we're exercised at the fact that the OPW seem so willing to pander to this very vocal minority at the expense of the majority.

JimmyVik

Former Former wrote: »

Ideally yes, that's why people are getting so exercised about the city centre Greens and the cycling lobby trying to make it difficult for the other 99% of the population to access it.

Or more correctly, we're exercised at the fact that the OPW seem so willing to pander to this very vocal minority at the expense of the majority.

We live in Co. Dublin, a long way away from the park. We go out for day out to the phoenix park - picnic and maybe the zoo and Farmleigh about once every month or two.
Going by car is necessary. Its almost like we are not welcome in the park now because we live further away and need a car to get there.

polesheep

Former Former wrote: »

Ideally yes, that's why people are getting so exercised about the city centre Greens and the cycling lobby trying to make it difficult for the other 99% of the population to access it.

Or more correctly, we're exercised at the fact that the OPW seem so willing to pander to this very vocal minority at the expense of the majority.

The argument that the park is for everyone is trotted out in defence of car access. Yet when someone takes a position against car access, suddenly it's not for everyone but only for regular visitors.

As I said above, close off all roads except Chesterfield and make it paid parking. You have to pay to park at the majority of attractions throughout the country. Make NCR gate Garda headquarters access only and Chapelizod gate Mary's Hospital access only.

VonLuck

JimmyVik wrote: »

We live in Co. Dublin, a long way away from the park. We go out for day out to the phoenix park - picnic and maybe the zoo and Farmleigh about once every month or two.
Going by car is necessary. Its almost like we are not welcome in the park now because we live further away and need a car to get there.

You could still access the park by car throughout this whole debacle, bar a period where only essential workers could use the road.

Shefwedfan

JimmyVik wrote: »

We live in Co. Dublin, a long way away from the park. We go out for day out to the phoenix park - picnic and maybe the zoo and Farmleigh about once every month or two.
Going by car is necessary. Its almost like we are not welcome in the park now because we live further away and need a car to get there.

I think that is why a ParkNRide should be in place if they are closing all the gates. I think the plan at the moment is just to close the side gates so you would still have access

Former Former

polesheep wrote: »

The argument that the park is for everyone is trotted out in defence of car access. Yet when someone takes a position against car access, suddenly it's not for everyone but only for regular visitors.

Who said that? I don't think anyone did.

polesheep wrote: »

As I said above, close off all roads except Chesterfield and make it paid parking. You have to pay to park at the majority of attractions throughout the country. Make NCR gate Garda headquarters access only and Chapelizod gate Mary's Hospital access only.

These are utterly stupid suggestions. I'm sorry but it's just bonkers.

JimmyVik

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think that is why a ParkNRide should be in place if they are closing all the gates. I think the plan at the moment is just to close the side gates so you would still have access

Park and ride for a park. We dont want it to take all day to get there and home. The park has worked very well the way it has been. Leave it that way.
Make it easy for EVERYONE who has paid for it to enjoy it.

polesheep

Former Former wrote: »

Who said that? I don't think anyone did.

Read back. There were plenty of posts saying exactly this.

These are utterly stupid suggestions. I'm sorry but it's just bonkers.

Elaborate why it is stupid. Chesterfield runs up the centre of the Park. From there you can access everything. If I go to the Cliffs of Moher for the day I will have to pay to park, why shouldn't motorists have to pay to park their car in the Phoenix Park?

polesheep

JimmyVik wrote: »

Park and ride for a park. We dont want it to take all day to get there and home. The park has worked very well the way it has been. Leave it that way.
Make it easy for EVERYONE who has paid for it to enjoy it.

What could be easier than two entrances at opposite ends of the Park to suit drivers coming from opposite directions? Plus ample parking all along the very long Chesterfield Avenue.

Former Former

polesheep wrote: »

Elaborate why it is stupid. Chesterfield runs up the centre of the Park. From there you can access everything. If I go to the Cliffs of Moher for the day I will have to pay to park, why shouldn't motorists have to pay to park their car in the Phoenix Park?

No real objection to paid parking. It's the closing off of all other roads to traffic that makes no sense. You're basically denying people access to a lot of the park.

polesheep

Former Former wrote: »

No real objection to paid parking. It's the closing off of all other roads to traffic that makes no sense. You're basically denying people access to a lot of the park.

That's not true. Where in the Park can you not go from Chesterfield Avenue on foot?

zerosugarbuzz

polesheep wrote: »

What could be easier than two entrances at opposite ends of the Park to suit drivers coming from opposite directions? Plus ample parking all along the very long Chesterfield Avenue.

There are more than 2 directions people come to the park from. I add 40 minutes to an hour round trip-by passing the chapelizod gates to enter via chesterfield avenue travelling to the papal cross car park. Not very green on the diesel no is it.?

polesheep

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

There are more than 2 directions people come to the park from. I add 40 minutes to an hour round trip-by passing the chapelizod gates to enter via chesterfield avenue travelling to the papal cross car park. Not very green on the diesel no is it.?

Are you pushing your car? That's a ten minute journey by car max... even in traffic.

zerosugarbuzz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think that is why a ParkNRide should be in place if they are closing all the gates. I think the plan at the moment is just to close the side gates so you would still have access

They are not closing the gates, they are only after reopening them as you well know.

This is the kind of carry on that does the green a disservice, puts more people off voting for them.

zerosugarbuzz

polesheep wrote: »

Are you pushing your car? That's a ten minute journey by car max... even in traffic.

Drive it in normal traffic. Took longer than I expected too. Minimum 20 mins from chapelizod entrance gate to parking at papal cross, within speed limits, low traffic.

liamog

The current outrageous parking and traffic situation is caused by the removal of parking on Chesterfield Avenue. If anything closure of vehicular access via the gates only increased the level of traffic within the park as you now needed to spend more time driving within the park to get to the limited parking areas. This is now mitigated thanks to reopening the gates.