Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

reg114

reg114 wrote: »

Huge difference between a few races involving a dozen Model T Fords a century ago through the park and allowing tens of thousands of cars to use it as a rat run daily. You're right it isnt a nature reserve, but we arent talking about the need for a Dublin version of the Serengeti, we are simply talking about making that urban amenity you allude to, car free. The entire country is choking with cars, one civic space without cars near the city centre isnt asking alot.

This. Surely one space in Dublin where you can get away from cars would be something for everyone to love

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This. Surely one space in Dublin where you can get away from cars would be something for everyone to love

Yes. We could all follow the Insta profiles of those few who could access it. Sure that sounds even better than actually being able to go to it.

Larbre34

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This. Surely one space in Dublin where you can get away from cars would be something for everyone to love

One, hmmm.

98% of Phoenix Park, St Annes Park, Killiney Hill, Howth Cliffs, the Botanic Gardens, the War Memorial Gardens, Stephens Green, Merrion Square, the Iveagh Gardens, our beautiful coastal walks and beaches and Piers, Three Rock, Ticknock, Marlay Park, Malahide Demesne, Newbridge House, Ardgillan Castle, St Catherines regional Park, Corkagh Park, Ceannt Park, Griffith Park and a partridge in a tree at Tymon Park.

And thats off the top of of my head.

Birdie Num Num

reg114 wrote: »

Well there was no incentive to take a shuttlebus while people were still allowed to virtually drive to the front door of the zoo. Youy ban cars , then I guarantee you people will fill the shuttlebuses.

As far as traffic and parking in recent months are concerned, when you close multiple gates and remove chesterfield avenue as a parking option, you are going to see an effect. I cycled through the park on most occasions in recent months and found it to be a joy. Like I said if cars are banned completely it would be an even better experience.

There is more to the Park than the zoo. ...And have you cycled the Park outside of recent months and know the joy it really is? And how do you feel about the restrictions on Chesterfield Avenue that have been in place for the last number of years? Personally I think they work very well. Maybe extend them outside of the summer months or do you agree? But explain to me how banning cars completely from the Park would work? How do you police it and allow just the thousands of people that work in the Park exclusive access? How do you solve the traffic issues that result in adjoining areas like Blackhorse Avenue, Prussia St. Navan Road, N3, Carbra Road (old & new) and Chapelizod?

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

Yes. We could all follow the Insta profiles of those few who could access it. Sure that sounds even better than actually being able to go to it.

Or you could get one of the many public transport options that pass by

Birdie Num Num

Larbre34 wrote: »

One, hmmm.

98% of Phoenix Park, St Annes Park, Killiney Hill, Howth Cliffs, the Botanic Gardens, the War Memorial Gardens, Stephens Green, Merrion Square, the Iveagh Gardens, our beautiful coastal walks and beaches and Piers, Three Rock, Ticknock, Marlay Park, Malahide Demesne, Newbridge House, Ardgillan Castle, St Catherines regional Park, Corkagh Park, Ceannt Park, Griffith Park and a partridge in a tree at Tymon Park.

And thats off the top of of my head.

Pear Tree!

Larbre34

blanch152 wrote: »

If the cars of ordinary people are so detrimental to the Park, why are the Taoiseach, the President and the American Ambassador allowed maintain residences there?

Getting rid of them to free up more space would be much more palatable and fair.

Aye, **** history.

The Viceregal Lodge would make a natty Starbucks.

Larbre34

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Pear Tree!

Not many pear trees in Tymon Park so I omitted it intentionally.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

Or you could get one of the many public transport options that pass by

Dogs aren't allowed on public transport in Ireland.

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or you could get one of the many public transport options that pass by

No, I couldn't. Literally could not. I've explained this a million times but this is downside of dealing with zealots. I might as well be discussing the merits of abortion with the Iona Institute. I'd probably get a more reasonable response from them.

You could just look out for cars...

Larbre34

Not to mention AGAIN that PT is on restricted capacity with those with underlying conditions told to avoid altogether.

Skylinehead

Larbre34 wrote: »

Now these people I know are retired, but for the peak of their working years they kept a tough Irish economy going and paid their income tax at 60%, so pardon me if I think they have as much right as any person to avail comfortably of this great amenity, without being patronised by the likes of you telling them HOW FAR THEY ARE DAMN WELL ABLE TO WALK OR UNABLE TO WALK JUST COS YOU BLOODY WELL THINK IT!!

I responded to a post which was talking specifically about a buggy, not elderly people. None of your strawman arguments are relevant.

I suggest you calm down, the all caps faux outrage SHOUTING isn't doing you any favours.

daymobrew

Former Former wrote: »

You could just look out for cars...

Pedestrians have the right of way over cars so it is the responsibility of the car driver to look out for pedestrians.

Larbre34 wrote: »

By far the biggest reason that motivated me to do it, was some older neighbours and friends locally, who like to drive to the Park a couple of times a week to stretch their legs, get some fresh air and particularly in the Covid period, get a change of scene to keep their mental health in check.

For the duration of the last few months, they haven't been able to do this easily, or in any peace or comfort. In fact, some weekends recently, so bad was the congestion approaching Castleknock gate due to the side gates being closed, they gave up and went home.

Did they not go out walking because they couldn't do so in the Phoenix Park?
Other parks were available and were probably a lot quieter.
Porterstown Park had special hours for older people.

Sometimes if the activity you want is not available you have to do something else.

Larbre34

daymobrew wrote: »

Other parks were available and were probably a lot quieter.
Porterstown Park had special hours for older people.

The carparks to all ordinary local Parks, were closed.

Indeed it did, but only after the over 70s cocoon was lifted and even then it wasn't respected.

Former Former

daymobrew wrote: »

Pedestrians have the right of way over cars so it is the responsibility of the car driver to look out for pedestrians.

I was just being facetious, but equally I think the dangers are being vastly overstated.

Shefwedfan

I have really seen some crazy ideas been brought up today for why cars need to go into the park, I always remember the craziness about banning smoking in the pub, see the similar everytine someone tries to change anything

Then it happens and well, everyone just gets on with it

If the park wanted, they could easily offer free parking to over 60 year olds if everyone is so concerned all of a sudden about old people walking....it’s not like they are going to dig up the roads

Shefwedfan

Also for zoo, when buying a ticket you can book a parking ticket in the car park, then you just swipe in and get access to the car park. They do it in the Point. Technology really is magical.

Having 100 cars a day in the park v a couple of thousand would be a lot better if they shut it down to all cars.

These are all options which can be deployed with low cost.

Shefwedfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

The carparks to all ordinary local Parks, were closed.

Indeed it did, but only after the over 70s cocoon was lifted and even then it wasn't respected.

When those people had to cocoon they could go out for no walks, so no idea what your point is, if they went to Phoenix park then they broke cocoon and might as well called into shops on the way home

I have family who live beside the park, can walk into it, she didn’t walk in as was cocooning. That was the recommendation

ronivek

We get it; ye lads love having the complete run of the park and not having to share it with those nasty car drivers.

However no matter how much you try to justify your own preference by claiming 'but there are alternatives' changes the fact that a not insignificant portion of people who have been using and enjoying the park for years if not decades are adversely affected by this decision.

Furthermore the degree to which those people have been affected will be different based on any number of factors including where they live, what they normally used the park for, how much time they had per day or week to use the park, what travelling they normally did around the park which might be hindered by traffic patterns changing, etc.

Now I don't think anyone here would have a big issue with the changes were temporary and for the purpose of combating the pandemic; but clearly there are other agendas which are being given priority. I also don't think anyone here would have a big issue with the long term goals of limiting traffic (especially through traffic and commuting traffic/parking) in the park. Surely how we get there can be handled better than unilateral closures by the OPW though.

Shefwedfan

ronivek wrote: »

We get it; ye lads love having the complete run of the park and not having to share it with those nasty car drivers.

However no matter how much you try to justify your own preference by claiming 'but there are alternatives' changes the fact that a not insignificant portion of people who have been using and enjoying the park for years if not decades are adversely affected by this decision.

Furthermore the degree to which those people have been affected will be different based on any number of factors including where they live, what they normally used the park for, how much time they had per day or week to use the park, what travelling they normally did around the park which might be hindered by traffic patterns changing, etc.

Now I don't think anyone here would have a big issue with the changes were temporary and for the purpose of combating the pandemic; but clearly there are other agendas which are being given priority. I also don't think anyone here would have a big issue with the long term goals of limiting traffic (especially through traffic and commuting traffic/parking) in the park. Surely how we get there can be handled better than unilateral closures by the OPW though.

I’m suggesting long term the park will be closed and as I already posted that’s the plan for OPW.

It seems that’s a step too far at the moment so coming up with more and more ridiculous requirement to try to argue the point is not really helping anyway

The park should not be used as a cheap car park which is a lot of the issue at the moment

It should not also be a rat run for people during rush hour who have no regard for anyone just shaving off 2-3 mins on a commute.

Those two are easily resolved and then review

All the excuses so far are 100% irrelevant and easily fixed, people coming up with these outlandish excuses in reality only want to use the park for rush hour, that’s it

Larbre34

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I’m suggesting long term the park will be closed and as I already posted that’s the plan for OPW.

It may have been (though I never saw evidence of ot) but you may take it we're on a blank sheet of paper now.

daymobrew

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It should not also be a rat run for people during rush hour who have no regard for anyone just shaving off 2-3 mins on a commute.

Many years ago (something like 10+) it was admitted (I think by DCC traffic management) that the lights at the Castleknock gate for those leaving the Park gave less time than the Castleknock Road side. It didn't stop people seeming to prefer the Chesterfield Avenue (maybe they felt that they were moving because the traffic jams probably didn't happen until Mountjoy roundabout).

I find that motorists will endure unending delays as long as they can use their car, even if other options are quicker.

murphyebass

daymobrew wrote: »

Many years ago (something like 10+) it was admitted (I think by DCC traffic management) that the lights at the Castleknock gate for those leaving the Park gave less time than the Castleknock Road side. It didn't stop people seeming to prefer the Chesterfield Avenue (maybe they felt that they were moving because the traffic jams probably didn't happen until Mountjoy roundabout).

I find that motorists will endure unending delays as long as they can use their car, even if other options are quicker.

It’s nice to be in your car. Away from horrible public transport. I’d rather spend 2 hours in my car than an hour on a Dublin bus.

LeinsterDub

Former Former wrote: »

Yes. We could all follow the Insta profiles of those few who could access it. Sure that sounds even better than actually being able to go to it.

I love this attitude. How can I go to the park for a walk if I literally can't drive to the start of the walk?

daymobrew

murphyebass wrote: »

It’s nice to be in your car. Away from horrible public transport. I’d rather spend 2 hours in my car than an hour on a Dublin bus.

I find this a bit depressing especially with respect to the goal of improving air quality.
What would it take to get you out of your car? Would it be possible?

While I don't like the stop-start of the bus, I'm a fan of the train even when it's packed. I endured the squashes of the mid 2000s - I was able to read a lot. I was even able to read on the 25 min walk after my train journey. Most of the time I cycled to work (15km) and it really helped my fitness.

Seth Brundle

daymobrew wrote: »

I find this a bit depressing especially with respect to the goal of improving air quality.
What would it take to get you out of your car? Would it be possible?

It is possible - I used to have the same car-centric view as many contributors here have
The problem is that you can't really persuade someone to get out of their car without an incentive. If the car takes a little longer then that's fine, a driver will put up with that. They can be dry, listen to whatever radio they want away from others. I used to love a smoke in the car on my way to work.
The incentive really needs to be that it's too much hassle to drive. There is no other way to do it.
The problem in Ireland is that we have a car culture, a massive obesity problem and, accept it or not, a looming environmental & energy crisis that will hit us hard. But to date, governments have stayed well away from trying to address any of these with any conviction.

Stark

I think the "rather 2 hours in the car than 1 hour on Dublin Bus" people are in the vast minority tbh. Problem is in Dublin it's quite often the other way round, especially if you have to go somewhere that's not the city centre. Most people will happily take public transport if it gets them to where they want to go more quickly. Just look at the effect a Luas/Dart line has on property prices.

I used to drive to work every day when I worked out in the sticks and probably would again if I was back in the same situation. Working in the city centre, it's just not worth driving.

Former Former

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I love this attitude. How can I go to the park for a walk if I literally can't drive to the start of the walk?

It's not an attitude, it's a fact.

I go to parks on foot plenty. I live within walking distance of both the Millennium Park and Porterstown Park. I frequent both of these without using the car.

However, neither of these is on a par with the Phoenix Park. I do not live within walking distance of the Phoenix Park. My kids are too small to cycle there and public transport is out.

Therefore I have to drive or I cannot use the Phoenix Park.

Do you understand that? Genuine question.

I see from the posts above that driving to the park is now being equated with a car culture and refusing any alternatives. I've been getting the train for 20 years between college and work. I know all about public transport and it is generally great.

But the car is the only option for the Park for me.

bilbot79

Former Former wrote: »

It's not an attitude, it's a fact.

I go to parks on foot plenty. I live within walking distance of both the Millennium Park and Porterstown Park. I frequent both of these without using the car.

However, neither of these is on a par with the Phoenix Park. I do not live within walking distance of the Phoenix Park. My kids are too small to cycle there and public transport is out.

Therefore I have to drive or I cannot use the Phoenix Park.

Do you understand that? Genuine question.

I see from the posts above that driving to the park is now being equated with a car culture and refusing any alternatives. I've been getting the train for 20 years between college and work. I know all about public transport and it is generally great.

But the car is the only option for the Park for me.

I don't think you have to drive into the park you can go near there and walk. Up and at it soldier!

LeinsterDub

Former Former wrote: »

It's not an attitude, it's a fact.

I go to parks on foot plenty. I live within walking distance of both the Millennium Park and Porterstown Park. I frequent both of these without using the car.

However, neither of these is on a par with the Phoenix Park. I do not live within walking distance of the Phoenix Park. My kids are too small to cycle there and public transport is out.

Therefore I have to drive or I cannot use the Phoenix Park.

Do you understand that? Genuine question.

I see from the posts above that driving to the park is now being equated with a car culture and refusing any alternatives. I've been getting the train for 20 years between college and work. I know all about public transport and it is generally great.

But the car is the only option for the Park for me.

You can't walk from the Luas across the road?
Or from a bus stop or the train? Say for example Coolmine train station which is literally in the middle of those 2 parks