Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

ronivek

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You can't walk from the Luas across the road?
Or from a bus stop or the train? Say for example Coolmine train station which is literally in the middle of those 2 parks

I mean you can get to Central Park in New York via Dublin Airport which I guess is technically 'public transport'; why don't we all just go there instead of the Phoenix Park? Less cars in Central Park I think. You just have to hop on a plane, fly there, hop on a bus from the airport to Manhattan, hop on another bus to the park and Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt. Problem solved.

I don't think anyone is lacking in ability to get to the Phoenix Park at any cost if they were forced to at gunpoint: people are saying that making an amenity more difficult to access makes the amenity less attractive and less practical for them. How is that so difficult to understand?

Former Former

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You can't walk from the Luas across the road?
Or from a bus stop or the train? Say for example Coolmine train station which is literally in the middle of those 2 parks

No. No. And no.

Just a reminder to the cycling enthusiasts. This is the Dublin 15 forum. I know Coolmine train station. Per previous post, I've been there twice a day, five days a week, for 20 years. I bring my kids on the train as a bit of an adventure. We go into town, we run around the playground in Merrion Square, we come home. The train is great because you can wheel a buggy on and off relatively easily. Happy days.

Now, getting the train to the Phoenix Park is problematic because the nearest station (Ashtown) is a decent but manageable walk from the Park. However, you get there and you are miles away from the zoo, the Furry Glen, Pope's Cross, playground or any of the places the kids actually want to go. Getting to the gates of the Park is only the first stage.

However, this is all academic because, and please take this on board, we cannot use public transport because it is reserved for essential journeys only due to this pesky global pandemic. it's that simple.

beauf

daymobrew wrote: »

I find this a bit depressing especially with respect to the goal of improving air quality.
What would it take to get you out of your car? Would it be possible?

While I don't like the stop-start of the bus, I'm a fan of the train even when it's packed. I endured the squashes of the mid 2000s - I was able to read a lot. I was even able to read on the 25 min walk after my train journey. Most of the time I cycled to work (15km) and it really helped my fitness.

Yes we should all read while walking, cycling and driving. Great idea.

If you were able to read it wasn't overcrowded.

beauf

Close the park to everyone cars and cyclists.

Walking only. Good walk never hurt anyone.

liamog

beauf wrote: »

Close the park to everyone cars and cyclists.

Walking only. Good walk never hurt anyone.

I've seen people walking outside marked paths and trails. You should probably go ahead and close it to walkers too.

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

It's not an attitude, it's a fact.

I go to parks on foot plenty. I live within walking distance of both the Millennium Park and Porterstown Park. I frequent both of these without using the car.

However, neither of these is on a par with the Phoenix Park. I do not live within walking distance of the Phoenix Park. My kids are too small to cycle there and public transport is out.

Therefore I have to drive or I cannot use the Phoenix Park.

Do you understand that? Genuine question.

I see from the posts above that driving to the park is now being equated with a car culture and refusing any alternatives. I've been getting the train for 20 years between college and work. I know all about public transport and it is generally great.

But the car is the only option for the Park for me.

Based on your description you live where I used to live. Prior to kids, mountain bikes, go in at coolmine station at the canal, cycle all the way down to ash town and over if looking for a bit of a cycle. Of course it was slower than just cycling into Castleknock and into park

Are they still saying they will convert all the way up along the canal so it’s nice to walk? Back in those days you needed a mountain bike till 12th

With kids, after 1 we just put on the back seat on bike and off we went. Then children trailer. You had to stay on roads for that

My point is with the car people don’t look at alternative, it’s just car or well car. If they did close down park you would find people can quickly adapt . Less cars on road going to park means safer to cycle to park as well. From Blanch village to park would be maybe 10-15 mins on a bike? Mostly flat bar going over the canal so not serious hard work

angel eyes 2012

daymobrew wrote: »

I find this a bit depressing especially with respect to the goal of improving air quality.
What would it take to get you out of your car? Would it be possible?

While I don't like the stop-start of the bus, I'm a fan of the train even when it's packed. I endured the squashes of the mid 2000s - I was able to read a lot. I was even able to read on the 25 min walk after my train journey. Most of the time I cycled to work (15km) and it really helped my fitness.

I am absolutely delighted with this outcome. I can't use the train or bus as I have fainted on both on a number of occasions without a seat. We are a one-car family and the engine is 1.2 l engine. To be honest I I don't know how families can afford two cars anymore but I understand it is necessary in some circumstances.

I wonder how many cyclists on this thread are driving cars with massive engines and are taking three or four trips annually by air, which will result in far more pollution than a few cars down Chesterfield Avenue.

zerosugarbuzz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on your description you live where I used to live. Prior to kids, mountain bikes, go in at coolmine station at the canal, cycle all the way down to ash town and over if looking for a bit of a cycle. Of course it was slower than just cycling into Castleknock and into park

Are they still saying they will convert all the way up along the canal so it’s nice to walk? Back in those days you needed a mountain bike till 12th

With kids, after 1 we just put on the back seat on bike and off we went. Then children trailer. You had to stay on roads for that

My point is with the car people don’t look at alternative, it’s just car or well car. If they did close down park you would find people can quickly adapt . Less cars on road going to park means safer to cycle to park as well. From Blanch village to park would be maybe 10-15 mins on a bike? Mostly flat bar going over the canal so not serious hard work

It’s pretty clear reading this reply to a genuine post from another park user that you have zero interest in other people’s wants or needs regarding the park. You have a one sided agenda and come hell or high water you will push that. With an average of 3 to 4 THOUSAND posts a year on boards alone you certainly put more time in than most could or would afford to do.

JimmyVik

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on your description you live where I used to live. Prior to kids, mountain bikes, go in at coolmine station at the canal, cycle all the way down to ash town and over if looking for a bit of a cycle. Of course it was slower than just cycling into Castleknock and into park

Are they still saying they will convert all the way up along the canal so it’s nice to walk? Back in those days you needed a mountain bike till 12th

With kids, after 1 we just put on the back seat on bike and off we went. Then children trailer. You had to stay on roads for that

My point is with the car people don’t look at alternative, it’s just car or well car. If they did close down park you would find people can quickly adapt . Less cars on road going to park means safer to cycle to park as well. From Blanch village to park would be maybe 10-15 mins on a bike? Mostly flat bar going over the canal so not serious hard work

Did you put your granny and grandad on the back of the bike too

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

...
My point is with the car people don’t look at alternative, it’s just car or well car. If they did close down park you would find people can quickly adapt .

So Your theory and experience is that once you buy or use a car, you no longer want to use a bicycle. So no one who ever bought a car ever cycled again. Likewise any who uses a bicycle ever has ever needed to use a car again. Sounds perfectly reasonable.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

. Less cars on road going to park means safer to cycle to park as well. From Blanch village to park would be maybe 10-15 mins on a bike? Mostly flat bar going over the canal so not serious hard work...

Why not make everyone walk. That's also safer than mixing cyclists and pedestrians. There are footpaths the whole way already.

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

So Your theory and experience is that once you buy or use a car, you no longer want to use a bicycle. So no one who ever bought a car ever cycled again. Likewise any who uses a bicycle ever has ever needed to use a car again. Sounds perfectly reasonable.

When did I say that? Why do you bother even replying if you going to twist everything? do you think you win a prize or something?

beauf wrote: »

Why not make everyone walk. That's also safer than mixing cyclists and pedestrians. There are footpaths the whole way already.

Shefwedfan

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

It’s pretty clear reading this reply to a genuine post from another park user that you have zero interest in other people’s wants or needs regarding the park. You have a one sided agenda and come hell or high water you will push that. With an average of 3 to 4 THOUSAND posts a year on boards alone you certainly put more time in than most could or would afford to do.

So my post count on boards is relevant how exactly?

daymobrew

beauf wrote: »

Yes we should all read while walking, cycling and driving. Great idea.

If you were able to read it wasn't overcrowded.

I never said to read while cycling or driving. I mentioned reading as an activity you can do while on a train, highlighting it as an advantage over driving.

It was very overcrowded in 2002-2008. Reading does not need much space at all. My backpack probably would take up more space than my book (the former I put at my feet).

LeinsterDub

Former Former wrote: »

No. No. And no.

Just a reminder to the cycling enthusiasts. This is the Dublin 15 forum. I know Coolmine train station. Per previous post, I've been there twice a day, five days a week, for 20 years. I bring my kids on the train as a bit of an adventure. We go into town, we run around the playground in Merrion Square, we come home. The train is great because you can wheel a buggy on and off relatively easily. Happy days.

Now, getting the train to the Phoenix Park is problematic because the nearest station (Ashtown) is a decent but manageable walk from the Park. However, you get there and you are miles away from the zoo, the Furry Glen, Pope's Cross, playground or any of the places the kids actually want to go. Getting to the gates of the Park is only the first stage.

However, this is all academic because, and please take this on board, we cannot use public transport because it is reserved for essential journeys only due to this pesky global pandemic. it's that simple.

Fair enough your original post did just say the park not these various destinations.

What about closing the park to thought traffic. That seemed like a good compromise?

daymobrew

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

I wonder how many cyclists on this thread are driving cars with massive engines and are taking three or four trips annually by air, which will result in far more pollution than a few cars down Chesterfield Avenue.

1.4 litre petrol. 1 annual trip. We cycle more than we drive - I've been recording our bicycle and car odometers each month.

LeinsterDub

ronivek wrote: »

I mean you can get to Central Park in New York via Dublin Airport which I guess is technically 'public transport'; why don't we all just go there instead of the Phoenix Park? Less cars in Central Park I think. You just have to hop on a plane, fly there, hop on a bus from the airport to Manhattan, hop on another bus to the park and Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt. Problem solved.

I don't think anyone is lacking in ability to get to the Phoenix Park at any cost if they were forced to at gunpoint: people are saying that making an amenity more difficult to access makes the amenity less attractive and less practical for them. How is that so difficult to understand?

.
The park is fairly easy to access via public transport from most of Dublin.

What you're actually saying is that for specific destinations in the park that car is far more convenient and of course I get that at a certain point PT becomes so difficult or slow as to be not usable.
Sometimes making an amenity less convenient for one group helps other groups and sometimes making an amenity more convenient for one group makes it hinders other groups.

JimmyVik

LeinsterDub wrote: »

.
The park is fairly easy to access via public transport from most of Dublin.

What you're actually saying is that for specific destinations in the park that car is far more convenient and of course I get that at a certain point PT becomes so difficult or slow as to be not usable.
Sometimes making an amenity less convenient for one group helps other groups and sometimes making an amenity more convenient for one group makes it hinders other groups.

All groups have been able to use the park very well for years.
No need to change that. Leave it as it is.

LeinsterDub

JimmyVik wrote: »

All groups have been able to use the park very well for years.
No need to change that. Leave it as it is.

The massive increase in other modes of transportation using the park with the gates closed suggests they've literally been driven from the park.

Of course by leave it as it is you mean a rat run that many who use it have barely set foot in in years?

murphyebass

daymobrew wrote: »

I find this a bit depressing especially with respect to the goal of improving air quality.
What would it take to get you out of your car? Would it be possible?

While I don't like the stop-start of the bus, I'm a fan of the train even when it's packed. I endured the squashes of the mid 2000s - I was able to read a lot. I was even able to read on the 25 min walk after my train journey. Most of the time I cycled to work (15km) and it really helped my fitness.

Honestly it would take my company to take away my car parking space which won’t happen.

Outside of not wanting to go near public transport with Covid going on there’s also all the other usual problems.

With a bus I invariably end up with a fat smelly person next to me that doesn’t fit on the seat meaning they’re half on top of me.

They smell in general and if you dare open a window some clown closes it two seconds later.

They stop and start a lot. It’s painful.

Trains are always bananas busy at rush hour times meaning most of the time I’d have to stand.

To be fair if I was guaranteed a seat on the train with a space to work on my laptop I’d be ok with it but again that’s just not going to happen at rush hour and that’s when people want / need to travel.

Also in a car I don’t have to put in the elements. I get into the car drink my coffee, put on my music, make a few work calls, etc... yes it’s stop start but I drive an automatic so it’s very easy going to be honest.

JimmyVik

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The massive increase in other modes of transportation using the park with the gates closed suggests they've literally been driven from the park.

Of course by leave it as it is you mean a rat run that many who use it have barely set foot in in years?

I use the park about once a month. MAybe a bit less or a bit more depending on time of year. Its a nice amenity for the people of Ireland when they come to Dublin. It should not be just for those people who can walk or cycle to it.

Often days we went into Farmleigh, then drive to the papal cross, then over to see the deer, a walk in the woods then drive to the zoo. And then drive home.
Other times we might just visit the zoo and then go somewhere in the park afterwards for a picnic.

I doubt I would go to it at all if I couldnt drive there and park in it, and then drive to another part of it. Its a day trip for us as it is. And its a lot of walking if we cant drive in, or around the park.

LeinsterDub

murphyebass wrote: »

Honestly it would take my company to take away my car parking space which won’t happen.

What if it was taxed?

beauf

daymobrew wrote: »

I never said to read while cycling or driving. I mentioned reading as an activity you can do while on a train, highlighting it as an advantage over driving.

It was very overcrowded in 2002-2008. Reading does not need much space at all. My backpack probably would take up more space than my book (the former I put at my feet).

No you said walking.. if you can do it while walking (why you'd do that I have no idea) why not cycling and driving...

daymobrew wrote: »

.. I was even able to read on the 25 min walk after my train journey. ...

It's still overcrowded. People get sick and pass out all the time. You can't read because there isn't enough space between people and you need your hands to hold on, because there are no handles in the spaces you have to cram into..

It's been overcrowded for decades at peak, in the 90s was e same aswell. Capacity never keeps up with demand and they keep building and putting more demand on the system.

I have no idea what point your making with the 2000s.

LeinsterDub

JimmyVik wrote: »

I use the park about once a month. MAybe a bit less or a bit more depending on time of year. Its a nice amenity for the people of Ireland when they come to Dublin. It should not be just for those people who can walk or cycle to it.

Often days we went into Farmleigh, then drive to the papal cross, then over to see the deer, a walk in the woods then drive to the zoo. And then drive home.
Other times we might just visit the zoo and then go somewhere in the park afterwards for a picnic.

I doubt I would go to it at all if I couldnt drive there and park in it, and then drive to another part of it. Its a day trip for us as it is. And its a lot of walking if we cant drive in, or around the park.

The no through traffic proposal would have allowed all this expect for some trips you'd have to leave and re-enter

JimmyVik

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The no through traffic proposal would have allowed all this expect for some trips you'd have to leave and re-enter

It works just fine the way it is.
Why change it?

beauf

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The massive increase in other modes of transportation using the park with the gates closed suggests they've literally been driven from the park.

Of course by leave it as it is you mean a rat run that many who use it have barely set foot in in years?

I guess that people were off work and school and couldn't travel very far had nothing to do with.

The park is busy normally pre covid. That the park is busy on a sunny day especially at the weekend or bank holiday is not unusual. That people think it is, suggests they aren't that frequent users of the park themselves.

LeinsterDub

JimmyVik wrote: »

It works just fine the way it is.
Why change it?

It's not working large sections of non motorist. The park is noisy, dangerous and polluted

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When did I say that? Why do you bother even replying if you going to twist everything? do you think you win a prize or something?

You say it's safer. No proof of that. People want cyclists and pedestrians segregated on the paths because it's dangerous. The logical progression is make the park pedestrians only.

Do you object to making safer and pedestrian only or maybe does that exclude you....

LeinsterDub

beauf wrote: »

I guess that people were off work and school and couldn't travel very far had nothing to do with.

The park is busy normally pre covid. That the park is busy on a sunny day especially at the weekend or bank holiday is not unusual. That people think it is, suggests they aren't that frequent users of the park themselves.

I never suggested it wasn't busy I highlighted the modal shift.

This the real issue with certain motorist there is no comprise they'll accept. Unless they can drive every where all of the time they are complaining .

JimmyVik

beauf wrote: »

I guess that people were off work and school and couldn't travel very far had nothing to do with.

The park is busy normally pre covid. That the park is busy on a sunny day especially at the weekend or bank holiday is not unusual. That people think it is, suggests they aren't that frequent users of the park themselves.

The fields all around my house that usually had only cows and sheep in them were full of people out having picnics and walking.
The reason isnt because someone banned cars parking by the fields. Its because people had nothing else to do. They had to make do with local fields.
Now im sure some green loon will be along shortly to say "Oh look, more people are going out in the fields, we should ban cars. They should get the bus to the fields, because it shows more people use the fields when they cant travel in their cars. Isnt that just so cute to see them sharing the fields with the cows." There was also nobody in the fields on rainy days. Ban rain.

beauf

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I never suggested it wasn't busy I highlighted the modal shift.

This the real issue with certain motorist there is no comprise they'll accept. Unless they can drive every where all of the time they are complaining .

It wasn't a modal shift. People didn't change transport mode. They stopped going anywhere.