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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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    #962
    murphyebass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    What if it was taxed?

    Meh, I’d have to weigh it up but most likely wouldn’t dissuade me.

    I think the big thing here that we shouldn’t lose sight of is remote working works well and should be implemented as much as humanely possible.

    There is no need for so many people to be on the road or on public transport every day at the same times. It makes no sense.

    It also solves childcare issues for a lot of people.


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    #963
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    beauf wrote: »
    You say it's safer. No proof of that. People want cyclists and pedestrians segregated on the paths because it's dangerous. The logical progression is make the park pedestrians only.

    Do you object to making safer and pedestrian only or maybe does that exclude you....


    This is what you posted

    beauf wrote: »
    So Your theory and experience is that once you buy or use a car, you no longer want to use a bicycle. So no one who ever bought a car ever cycled again. Likewise any who uses a bicycle ever has ever needed to use a car again. Sounds perfectly reasonable.



    ???



    I didn't say anything in my post about buying a car and never using a bike again.



    Also your now talking about pedestrians and cyclist and segragation?



    What are you talking about?


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    #964
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    This is what you posted...
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    ....
    My point is with the car people don’t look at alternative, it’s just car or well car. If they did close down park you would find people can quickly adapt . Less cars on road going to park means safer to cycle to park as well. From Blanch village to park would be maybe 10-15 mins on a bike? Mostly flat bar going over the canal so not serious hard work...

    The whole premise of this is people have the choice to cycle or walk and always choose to drive.

    Completely oblivious to people who have to drive. It's just these very narrow scenerio's usually very focused on one journey and one destination. No multiple stops with multiple people or loads on the car. No time constraints, no complications nothing. No concept that people might use all forms of transport cycling trains and cars.

    There are days I drive, cycle and get the train all the same journey. Some days I'm so over the area with multiple lifts and pickups. Just not possible walking or cycling.

    So narrow minded.


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    #965
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So my post count on boards is relevant how exactly?

    Well you clearly have a lot of time on your hands OR are making the time to push a particular agenda.


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    #966
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    Well you clearly have a lot of time on your hands OR are making the time to push a particular agenda.

    In fairness everyone on boards is killing time in some form or other. So you're making a irrelevant point. Everyone spends their time differently. Debate the post not the poster.


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    #967
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There is obviously a problem with traffic management in the phoenix park.

    They could have car parks inside the gates and stop parking in the center of the park. That would not be an unreasonable compromise. But people don't want that.

    They could do trial period of different layouts and restrictions and then report on the results. They don't do that they just make unilateral changes without consultation.

    There is no better way to cause conflict and disputes. It just makes people unwilling to compromise. You have to sell your proposal to people not batter them into rebellion.


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    #968
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    The fields all around my house that usually had only cows and sheep in them were full of people out having picnics and walking.
    The reason isnt because someone banned cars parking by the fields. Its because people had nothing else to do. They had to make do with local fields.
    Now im sure some green loon will be along shortly to say "Oh look, more people are going out in the fields, we should ban cars. They should get the bus to the fields, because it shows more people use the fields when they cant travel in their cars. Isnt that just so cute to see them sharing the fields with the cows." There was also nobody in the fields on rainy days. Ban rain.
    Strawman rating A+


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    #969
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Strawman rating A+

    It's not a strawman its exactly what people are doing.


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    #970
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    It wasn't a modal shift. People didn't change transport mode. They stopped going anywhere.

    I can't believe people went to the effort of faking thousands of pictures on Twitter


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    #971
    deathbomber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 332 ✭✭deathbomber


    It is an overall issue with parking in the city, more so the introduction of paid parking nearly everywhere now. Around 20 years ago i had a part time job in St. Mary's hospital. I cycled everyday, there was no.more than a couple of cars parked on Chesterfield avenue, on the way home there were more but mostly from people going for a walk or the zoo, there were very few if any parking there for work.
    Free parking for 5 - 6 hours should be introduced, maybe with the exception of weekends, many options for monitoring are available.


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    #972
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    There is obviously a problem with traffic management in the phoenix park.

    They could have car parks inside the gates and stop parking in the center of the park. That would not be an unreasonable compromise. But people don't want that.

    They could do trial period of different layouts and restrictions and then report on the results. They don't do that they just make unilateral changes without consultation.

    There is no better way to cause conflict and disputes. It just makes people unwilling to compromise. You have to sell your proposal to people not batter them into rebellion.

    I know plenty of people who are eagerly awaiting the consultation and are willing to compromise. The suggestion you've outlined above doesn’t go far enough in my opinion my preference is no through traffic but I'd be happy to trial the options


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    #973
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I can't believe people went to the effort of faking thousands of pictures on Twitter

    What modal change did it show?

    My local park has no roads and they closed the car park, and was full of people also. What modal change did that indicate.


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    #974
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    deathbomber wrote: »
    It is an overall issue with parking in the city, more so the introduction of paid parking nearly everywhere now. Around 20 years ago i had a part time job in St. Mary's hospital. I cycled everyday, there was no.more than a couple of cars parked on Chesterfield avenue, on the way home there were more but mostly from people going for a walk or the zoo, there were very few if any parking there for work.
    Free parking for 5 - 6 hours should be introduced, maybe with the exception of weekends, many options for monitoring are available.

    20 years ago there was literally half the number of cars on Irish roads. This is an issue of spacing. There simply isn't enough. What would free parking do except encourage more people to drive? Currently there is free parking almost every in the city as illegal parking is simply ignored


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    #975
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    What modal change did it show?

    My local park has no roads and they closed the park, and was full of people also. What modal change did that indicate.

    Then perhaps you can start a thread about your local park


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    #976
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Then perhaps you can start a thread about your local park

    Phoenix park is one of my local parks....

    You can't explain your modal change because there was none.


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    #977
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    beauf wrote: »
    This is what you posted...



    The whole premise of this is people have the choice to cycle or walk and always choose to drive.

    Completely oblivious to people who have to drive. It's just these very narrow scenerio's usually very focused on one journey and one destination. No multiple stops with multiple people or loads on the car. No time constraints, no complications nothing. No concept that people might use all forms of transport cycling trains and cars.

    There are days I drive, cycle and get the train all the same journey. Some days I'm so over the area with multiple lifts and pickups. Just not possible walking or cycling.

    So narrow minded.


    Nice little ramble. Did you forget the whole discussion we had on this thread abotu ParkNride etc?



    This is what you posted
    beauf wrote: »
    So Your theory and experience is that once you buy or use a car, you no longer want to use a bicycle. So no one who ever bought a car ever cycled again. Likewise any who uses a bicycle ever has ever needed to use a car again. Sounds perfectly reasonable.


    So when or where did I post anything about never using a bicycle after buying a car?


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    #978
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    Well you clearly have a lot of time on your hands OR are making the time to push a particular agenda.


    You seem to have no issue with other posters and post count, yet attack me because I have a different opinion and the best you can come up with is my post count. Are you 5?


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    #979
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    deathbomber wrote: »
    It is an overall issue with parking in the city, more so the introduction of paid parking nearly everywhere now. Around 20 years ago i had a part time job in St. Mary's hospital. I cycled everyday, there was no.more than a couple of cars parked on Chesterfield avenue, on the way home there were more but mostly from people going for a walk or the zoo, there were very few if any parking there for work.
    Free parking for 5 - 6 hours should be introduced, maybe with the exception of weekends, many options for monitoring are available.

    Selective memory. They did park on Chesterfield Ave all the way to parkgate Street gate. They stopped people parking at the parkgate section 10-15 years ago. I experimented with parking in the park back then and never thought it was worth it.

    Back in the 80s and 90s there was also heavy traffic in the park. This is not a new thing. Queues taking an hour or more at peak were common.

    Another change is the rise of people walking and running. Lot more people out now than there used to be. Same with cycling.


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    #980
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Nice little ramble. Did you forget the whole discussion we had on this thread abotu ParkNride etc?

    This is what you posted

    So when or where did I post anything about never using a bicycle after buying a car?

    I see so rather discuss the modal change. You want to keep repeating old posts, that have already been discussed. Progressive stuff.

    To use a park and ride. You need to drive to it. I thought your point was we are using cars too much. Maybe they should walk to the park and ride to prove you don't have to drive everywhere.


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    #981
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    ...
    This is what you posted...

    I know. The quote tags kinda gave it away.

    Will you be going back over a lot of old posts. It's a long thread.


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    #982
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    Phoenix park is one of my local parks....

    You can't explain your modal change because there was none.

    So all those tweets of people walking and cycling where faked?


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    #983
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Kind of a side issue. But if you want to get more people cycling to the park. It's not the park that needs fixing. It's getting to the park that needs fixing.

    The park is nicer without cars no doubt. But then the roads were also nicer without cars. It's not without precedent to make some roads car free in cities.

    With WFH its certainly an opportunity to experiment with makeing more places cast free. Within reason.


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    #984
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    So all those tweets of people walking and cycling where faked?

    Can you quote where you posted any. Someone posted one from 3 yrs ago.

    This one was interesting.

    CiaranCuffe (@CiaranCuffe) Tweeted: No fun being stuck in this mile and a half long jam in #PhoenixPark today. Best to park outside or better still take public transport and walk, or cycle https://t.co/GUDOXtzVBa https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1271855869630787590?s=20

    Both because it was a Saturday. Also because how few people walking and cycling in the background. Maybe that's faked...?


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    #985
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    beauf wrote: »
    Kind of a side issue. But if you want to get more people cycling to the park. It's not the park that needs fixing. It's getting to the park that needs fixing.

    The park is nicer without cars no doubt. But then the roads were also nicer without cars. It's not without precedent to make some roads car free in cities.

    With WFH its certainly an opportunity to experiment with makeing more places cast free. Within reason.


    This post which you took such offence to this morning

    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    .......

    My point is with the car people don’t look at alternative, it’s just car or well car. If they did close down park you would find people can quickly adapt . Less cars on road going to park means safer to cycle to park as well. .......


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    #986
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    beauf wrote: »
    I see so rather discuss the modal change. You want to keep repeating old posts, that have already been discussed. Progressive stuff.

    To use a park and ride. You need to drive to it. I thought your point was we are using cars too much. Maybe they should walk to the park and ride to prove you don't have to drive everywhere.


    The post you got in such a tizzy about was a response to another poster. I had quoted him in the post. Did you miss that? he clearly lived in the same area I used to live it.



    What is your problem with having a discussion with a specific poster?


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    #987
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The post you got in such a tizzy about was a response to another poster. I had quoted him in the post. Did you miss that? he clearly lived in the same area I used to live it.



    What is your problem with having a discussion with a specific poster?

    You asked me about park and ride I answered. End of..


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    #988
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    This post which you took such offence to this morning

    I didn't take offence. I just pointed out the logical fallacy in some of what you posted.

    Removing all cars from roads is a great concept. But impractical in many scenerio's. Not all. We pedestrianised many shopping streets. Cyclists are also banned in some cases.


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    #989
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    beauf wrote: »
    I didn't take offence. I just pointed out the logical fallacy in some of what you posted.

    Removing all cars from roads is a great concept. But impractical in many scenerio's. Not all. We pedestrianised many shopping streets. Cyclists are also banned in some cases.


    I was talking to a specific poster who was based in Blanchardstown/Castleknock. The post was about his/her situation. The fact I quoted the poster would have been the give away for everyone else

    You somehow took offence, no idea why. Then made up some cr*p that I said if you buy a car you will never cycle again

    If you want to attack everyone that posts on this thread, that your choice. As I said you won't win a medal for it.


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    #990
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    Can you quote where you posted any. Someone posted one from 3 yrs ago.

    This one was interesting.

    CiaranCuffe (@CiaranCuffe) Tweeted: No fun being stuck in this mile and a half long jam in #PhoenixPark today. Best to park outside or better still take public transport and walk, or cycle https://t.co/GUDOXtzVBa https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1271855869630787590?s=20

    Both because it was a Saturday. Also because how few people walking and cycling in the background. Maybe that's faked...?

    No you're right not single extra person cycled or walked to the park during the lockdown. But how did they all get there when all the gates were closed to traffic? If you're simply going to deny reality there isn't much point attempting to have a discussion


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    #991
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I was talking to a specific poster who was based in Blanchardstown/Castleknock. The post was about his/her situation. The fact I quoted the poster would have been the give away for everyone else

    You somehow took offence, no idea why. Then made up some cr*p that I said if you buy a car you will never cycle again

    If you want to attack everyone that posts on this thread, that your choice. As I said you won't win a medal for it.

    Like I said I didn't take offence or attack anyone. I just pointed out the logical disconnect, the dogma and blinkered perspective by debating the post. Repeating a Strawman won't make it come true btw.


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