Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

beauf

daymobrew wrote: »

I think you've highlighted a big issue that prevents some people from changing from using a car to using a bike - the roads are only designed for one particular group (cars) at the expense of another (bicycles).

In that case the park should be for pedestrians only as it's not possible to safely mix them with cyclists....

ronivek

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you should research the statistics of motorbikes and cycling then...

Well generally when something gives me the willies it's not because of statistics: it's because I've had some bad experiences in the past which cause my animal brain to recoil.

In my younger and less considered years I had a few too many close calls on motorcycles; and was saved from serious injury only by virtue of the weight of the motorcycle and/or the protective equipment.

I also had a rather harrowing experience with a nettle bush and a large rock while mountain biking in my youth; which also pops into my head anytime I get the urge to try a bicycle.

I don't think I'm meant to be on two wheels.

beauf

Whatever. But your implying that cycling is dangerous, even more dangerous than a motorbike. Which is nonsense.

ronivek

beauf wrote: »

Whatever. But your implying that cycling is dangerous, even more dangerous than a motorbike. Which is nonsense.

I didn’t imply anything other than my decision not to commute by bicycle was a result of my anecdotal experience. I would have thought it was pretty clear.

Now you’ve started calling things nonsense though: how precisely are you measuring danger here? I would be surprised if bicycles weren’t relatively as dangerous as motorcycles based on certain measures.

Larbre34

Shefwedfan wrote: »

5. Long terms close the park down to general public(this would include the ability of giving access to specific people for sports etc if required)

Ok. You've posted some stuff on this topic that I didn't agree with (well basically all of it) but what the hell are you smoking with this nonsense?

Do you even know what the Phoenix Park is?

daymobrew

daymobrew wrote: »

I think you've highlighted a big issue that prevents some people from changing from using a car to using a bike - the roads are only designed for one particular group (cars) at the expense of another (bicycles).

This may be true for cycling in general, but there's no way someone considering cycling through Phoenix Park would be put off for that reason. Cycling through PP is a joy compared to many other roads I had to navigate when I would cycle to work.

zerosugarbuzz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont think anyone has suggested they dont want people to enjoy the park.


Personally I would have the following
1. Keep some of the gates closed now for good or warn people in 2021 XYZ gate will close
2. Close down sections of the park every weekend, they only do now for specific weekends

3. Look at a ParkNRide system in the surrounding area that would make it easier to gain access
4. Implement the parknride while leaving the gates open. So on a busy weekend instead of trying to throw a car somewhere in the park you could use the carpark and get a bus in
5. Long terms close the park down to general public(this would include the ability of giving access to specific people for sports etc if required)


That could potentially take 10 years or more to implement but it should be started now, not build the whole area up and then say they have no space for PankNride

How often do you use the Phoenix park?

daymobrew

Basil3 wrote: »

This may be true for cycling in general, but there's no way someone considering cycling through Phoenix Park would be put off for that reason. Cycling through PP is a joy compared to many other roads I had to navigate when I would cycle to work.

I meant in general because to cycle through the Phoenix Park, which is a joy, you have to cycle to it. That's where the problem lies.

Over 6 years ago FCC had a public consultation about a cycle track from Blanchardstown (at Snugborough Road) to Phoenix Park (Castleknock gates). Nothing has been done yet.

thelad95

Paid parking within the confines of the park would kill the experience for many, a truly horrible idea. With paid parking comes the likes of APCOA clamping people because they decided to stay an extra fifteen minutes in the furry Glen because the herd of deer was there.

However double yellow lines and proper policing needs to be introduced. The parking behaviours of many in the park have been ingrained over years of non enforcement and as such the bicycle lane or double yellow lines they're parking on mean nothing not too mention the grass verges that are getting destroyed.

People who park respectfully and properly in designated spaces shouldn't be penalised with paid parking to compensate for the selfish people who don't bother parking properly.

Shefwedfan

thelad95 wrote: »

Paid parking within the confines of the park would kill the experience for many, a truly horrible idea. With paid parking comes the likes of APCOA clamping people because they decided to stay an extra fifteen minutes in the furry Glen because the herd of deer was there.

However double yellow lines and proper policing needs to be introduced. The parking behaviours of many in the park have been ingrained over years of non enforcement and as such the bicycle lane or double yellow lines they're parking on mean nothing not too mention the grass verges that are getting destroyed.

People who park respectfully and properly in designated spaces shouldn't be penalised with paid parking to compensate for the selfish people who don't bother parking properly.

You don't want paid parking and a clamping company but you want double yellow lines? who will police the yellow lines?


All parking companies give a minimum window before they clamp. So if you are a few mins over you will be ok. Unless you are blocking something etc.



Also with parking tag, you can top up no matter where in World you are. So no excuse anymore. IT even text you to remind you to top up. Deers or not

JimmyVik

thelad95 wrote: »

Paid parking within the confines of the park would kill the experience for many, a truly horrible idea. With paid parking comes the likes of APCOA clamping people because they decided to stay an extra fifteen minutes in the furry Glen because the herd of deer was there.

However double yellow lines and proper policing needs to be introduced. The parking behaviours of many in the park have been ingrained over years of non enforcement and as such the bicycle lane or double yellow lines they're parking on mean nothing not too mention the grass verges that are getting destroyed.

People who park respectfully and properly in designated spaces shouldn't be penalised with paid parking to compensate for the selfish people who don't bother parking properly.

TBH just speaking for my family. If paid parking or no parking happened in the phoenix park we would likely never go there again or to the Zoo. But perhaps that what people want. To drive regular users out of traveling to the phoenix park just because they live further away from it.
I thought it was for everyone. Seems it isnt.

Larbre34

JimmyVik wrote: »

TBH just speaking for my family. If paid parking or no parking happened in the phoenix park we would likely never go there again or to the Zoo. But perhaps that what people want. To drive regular users out of traveling to the phoenix park just because they live further away from it.
I thought it was for everyone. Seems it isnt.

It absolutely is.

I wouldn't be concerned, a sensible majority clearly think similarly to yourself. Yes there are lobbies that make a lot of noise, but realistically a solution for the Park will a) protect it as an environment b) prioritise access and safety for walkers and cyclists c) ensure its value as a great national amenity for all, recognising its high profile and destination status.

liamog

Shefwedfan wrote: »

5. Long terms close the park down to general public(this would include the ability of giving access to specific people for sports etc if required)

Planting to turn the park into a private deer hunting park again?

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

Planting to turn the park into a private deer hunting park again?

:P:P
Bit of a typo, I meant public traffic

Larbre34

Shefwedfan wrote: »

:P:P
Bit of a typo, I meant public traffic

And how is that better???!!!

Shefwedfan

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

How often do you use the Phoenix park?

Why?

daymobrew

JimmyVik wrote: »

TBH just speaking for my family. If paid parking or no parking happened in the phoenix park we would likely never go there again or to the Zoo. But perhaps that what people want. To drive regular users out of traveling to the phoenix park just because they live further away from it.
I thought it was for everyone. Seems it isnt.

It is for everyone and would still be if paid parking was introduced - you would make a deliberate decision not to use it, nothing would be preventing you.

Former Former

I went to the park today. The car park at the zoo was full at 11am. This is the not unexpected side effect of taking away hundreds of car spaces on Chesterfield Avenue.

What does a family arriving to the zoo do in such circumstances?

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

I went to the park today. The car park at the zoo was full at 11am. This is the not unexpected side effect of taking away hundreds of car spaces on Chesterfield Avenue.

What does a family arriving to the zoo do in such circumstances?

Easily solved with a scan access system

If people are parking and leaving for day the Zoo should clamp, 120 to get out

jackofalltrades

Former Former wrote: »

I went to the park today. The car park at the zoo was full at 11am. This is the not unexpected side effect of taking away hundreds of car spaces on Chesterfield Avenue.

What does a family arriving to the zoo do in such circumstances?

The zoo is running at a reduced capacity, only allowing in 500 people at a time.
The car park has a capacity for 260 cars.
Since the zoo's popular with families, there should more than enough spaces for the people who are currently going there.

Maybe lobby to have restrictions brought in, so the car park can only be used by visitors of the zoo.
You could also bring in paid parking, but there doesn't seem to be much support for that as a demand management measure.
And I'm guessing there's not going to be much support for building additional car parks.
Even if they could get planning permission for them, which I doubt they would.

Having four lanes on Chesterfield Avenue all for the use of motorists is being greedy.
Right now we have a situation of equality where cyclists and motorists get equal space.
In an environment where cyclists are supposed to be more important than cars.

During the current pandemic people will just have to accept that they'll find it harder to park.
Post Covid they'll have to embrace other means of getting there.
And I'd be fairly certain the zoo didn't get permission for it's expansion based on everyone driving there.

Former Former

jackofalltrades wrote: »

The zoo is running at a reduced capacity, only allowing in 500 people at a time.
The car park has a capacity for 260 cars.
Since the zoo's popular with families, there should more than enough spaces for the people who are currently going there.

No. Those were the numbers initially announced but currently capacity is much higher. There isn't enough space.

I was in the park at 10am, the car park at the cricket ground was completely empty.
The car park at the papal cross was not even one eighths full.
Plenty of available parking.

Seth Brundle

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Having four lanes on Chesterfield Avenue all for the use of motorists is being greedy.
Right now we have a situation of equality where cyclists and motorists get equal space.
In an environment where cyclists are supposed to be more important than cars.

Just to be clear, cyclists do not have equal space than cars. They are also regarded as less important than cars: view the roundabouts for example.
However it is far better than before the lockdown.

Shefwedfan

jackofalltrades wrote: »

The zoo is running at a reduced capacity, only allowing in 500 people at a time.
The car park has a capacity for 260 cars.
Since the zoo's popular with families, there should more than enough spaces for the people who are currently going there.

Maybe lobby to have restrictions brought in, so the car park can only be used by visitors of the zoo.
You could also bring in paid parking, but there doesn't seem to be much support for that as a demand management measure.
And I'm guessing there's not going to be much support for building additional car parks.
Even if they could get planning permission for them, which I doubt they would.

Having four lanes on Chesterfield Avenue all for the use of motorists is being greedy.
Right now we have a situation of equality where cyclists and motorists get equal space.
In an environment where cyclists are supposed to be more important than cars.

During the current pandemic people will just have to accept that they'll find it harder to park.
Post Covid they'll have to embrace other means of getting there.
And I'd be fairly certain the zoo didn't get permission for it's expansion based on everyone driving there.

Zoo car park is not for lazy people

beauf

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just to be clear, cyclists do not have equal space than cars. They are also regarded as less important than cars: view the roundabouts for example.
However it is far better than before the lockdown.

Before the lockdown when I go around the roundabouts on the bicycle I deliberately take up the same space as a car. Seems to work far better.

Since the lockdown I've not been through them in the park at least not on the bicycle. I've stuck to dirt trails.

What's different about the roundabouts now.

beauf

Former Former wrote: »

I went to the park today. The car park at the zoo was full at 11am. This is the not unexpected side effect of taking away hundreds of car spaces on Chesterfield Avenue.

What does a family arriving to the zoo do in such circumstances?

It's was full early in the day on a regular basis on a busy day before the lockdown anyway. Hence why people parked all over the place including the grass and well up the north road.

The zoo could encourage people by giving concessions or gifts to people who present a rail or bus ticket.

beauf

Last few times at the visitor centre the car park is packed. People on the grass and double parking. Always get parking but might have to wait 5-10 mins to get space. Seems like lots of runners and walkers now using that car park in the mornings, then a coffee afterwards.

Seth Brundle

beauf wrote: »

Before the lockdown when I go around the roundabouts on the bicycle I deliberately take up the same space as a car. Seems to work far better.
...
What's different about the roundabouts now.

With the new cycle paths, you must yield at the end and merge with cars and other traffic when you come to the roundabouts.
Given my post which you quoted was saying how bicycles were not equal to cars in the park, this is an apt example.

beauf

Seth Brundle wrote: »

With the new cycle paths, you must yield at the end and merge with cars and other traffic when you come to the roundabouts.
Given my post which you quoted was saying how bicycles were not equal to cars in the park, this is an apt example.

Are you not yielding to all traffic cars and bicycles on the roundabout not just cars?

Seth Brundle

beauf wrote: »

Are you not yielding to all traffic cars and bicycles on the roundabout not just cars?

The cycle path ends shortly before the roundabout. People in the cycle lane must yield to cars on the road travelling in the same direction.