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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP
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Jaysus there is a blast from the past. A big water carrier for Palestinian islamists despite all the faux socialist trappings. Now getting bigger bucks from the NGO sector.. i see she is not calling for the saudis to take them despite thw saudis having the capacity to take 3 million continuously in their now covid emptied pilgrimidge facilitiesPatrick2010 wrote: »Caoimhe Butterly on newstalk now getting a very soft interview. No questions as to who started the fire. Caoimhe says there are 70 million refugees on the move in the world at the moment and we need to do more.0 -
Nearby France seem to be addressing the whole question of 'multiculturalism' of late.
Last year they tightened up the whole asylum process, shorter processing times, deportations and huge fines for ID fraud (hence Calais).
Reckon he's actually fearing a LePen victory at the voting booth circa 2023.
From the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/world/europe/macron-radical-islam-france.html
That's a bit of a mouthful, but it could perhaps indicate decades of migration (with 2015 surge) now causing serious issues and ghettos.Macron Vows Crackdown on ‘Islamist Separatism’ in France
President Emmanuel Macron’s speech addressed a deep-rooted problem in French society: its enduring difficulty to integrate significant parts of its large, nonwhite, Muslim population of immigrants and their descendants.
Or could also be can shaking for an election.0 -
Watching France24 tonight, Macron appears to be very concerned that Radical Islam threatens the secular principles behind the French Republic. Interesting to note that of the 3 areas that he focused on in his speech, one was that of NGOs in France:
Some NGOs or organizations which “act against the law and values of the country” might be closed or face tight financial audits, according to the new plan.
NGOs also represent a substantial threat in Ireland because they are inherently deemed as altruistic by the general public, whereas the reality is that they are the exact opposite. We need the same controls of NGOs in Ireland that the French President is proposing for his country.0 -
Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »Or could also be can shaking for an election.
Almost certainly the latter. Politicians become full on ultra-nationalists in the 12 weeks prior to a vote, then revert to championing globalization and mass migration for the next 4-5 years. Its a tricky balancing act between what voters want and what donors want, but they only need the voters for a single day.0 -
Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »Have you considered relocating to china's xinjiang? They've a wonderful new re-education program there, to knock (with sticks) any notion of praise for anything, other that their most glorious state leader. All hail the leader.
What are you on about?0 -
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cassette50 wrote: »Dr. Joseph is cashing in on her new found "fame" and has setup her own company with the stately title of "Institute of Antiracism and Black Studies Limited".
You and your colleagues can now sign up for a course: https://www.iabs.ie/ and check your white privilege.
I am a bit disappointed by the lack of diversity within the team: https://www.iabs.ie/Home/Team
I think it's sad to see attitudes like this being imported in to Ireland. We didn't have this 20 years a go.
We have always had our problems in Ireland but at least we had a cohesive society and a sense of togetherness when needed.
We are seeing that cohesiveness gradually deconstructed and eroded.
For what?
I don't see any tangible benefit to the road we are on. I see a more divided society and the ills it will bring.0 -
Kermit.de.frog wrote: »I think it's sad to see attitudes like this being imported in to Ireland. We didn't have this 20 years a go.
We have always had our problems in Ireland but at least we had a cohesive society and a sense of togetherness when needed.
We are seeing that cohesiveness gradually deconstructed and eroded.
For what?
I don't see any tangible benefit to the road we are on. I see a more divided society and the ills it will bring.
Its easier to rule over a fragmented society.0 -
Emmanuel Macron unveiled plans yesterday to ramp up the fight against"Islamist separatism" which he said is threatening to build " a parallel society" rejecting the rules of France.0
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TheBlackPill wrote: »Jaysus there is a blast from the past. A big water carrier for Palestinian islamists despite all the faux socialist trappings. Now getting bigger bucks from the NGO sector.. i see she is not calling for the saudis to take them despite thw saudis hav uping the capacity to take 3 million continuously in their now covid emptied pilgrimidge facilities
The saudi would have them in literal cages.🙈🙉🙊
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Emmanuel Macron unveiled plans yesterday to ramp up the fight against"Islamist separatism" which he said is threatening to build " a parallel society" rejecting the rules of France.
Well, this is the problem with allowing in large numbers of a particular culture, since they do tend to come together to form large communities. If you ever spend any time around the south of France, or any of the major cities, there are entire suburbs which have been taken over by migrant populations. In these communities, it's not France anymore. Not really. You see Arabic on the signs, people dress completely different, and, often, they're not speaking French.
The issue is that even without the laws being changed, or anything brought about officially, when such communities are created, they take over. The natives are gradually pushed out (locals intimidated), and within the areas, other "laws"/rules are enforced. It's no longer a matter of French law, but the acceptable rules of that community, especially since the Police often withdraw from such areas, to reduce conflict.
People like to think that the changes will come about in obvious ways, but that's not what we've seen happening in Europe. We've seen communities spring up, bringing in their own culture, and their own values.
That is the real danger of multiculturalism, and it's something that politicians want to ignore, as does the media, except when they want to complain about Ghettoisation, but the focus is that it's the fault of westerners that it's happening.
I genuinely hope that Macron does commit to this, because France is still a leader in the EU, and can start us all along the right path.. away from this weakness that has plagued Europe for the last few decades.0 -
I agree with immigration but probably disagree with multiculturalism. Each country has a culture, if you move there you need to be at least open to the idea of assimilating with that culture - learn the language, have a skill we need in the economy, learn how the locals do things. I think if you don't do that you end up with ghettos.
That said, if people are able to contribute and are willing to attempt assimilation - I don't see any reason to not welcome them. Many Polish people came here in the early 2000's and those who have stayed have completely added value to our country to name one example.0 -
Foxhound38 wrote: »I agree with immigration but probably disagree with multiculturalism. Each country has a culture, if you move there you need to be at least open to the idea of assimilating with that culture - learn the language, have a skill we need in the economy, learn how the locals do things. I think if you don't do that you end up with ghettos.
That said, if people are able to contribute and are willing to attempt assimilation - I don't see any reason to not welcome them. Many Polish people came here in the early 2000's and those who have stayed have completely added value to our country to name one example.
So agree with Polish people - such a lovely people. Practically Irish in nature - I’m not sure what “Polish culture” would be per se but it’s either bang on ours or they have fitted in so well.
Hard working and friendly and never a lick of bother. Let’s have a few more!!
You’ll find most people are not anti immigrant or against immigration - but against the mass encroachment into the country of people who will only ever take and never give and will expect us to change to them.
Cf the “organisation” set up by Ebun Joseph. If there’s a black Irish person against a white British person - we’re siding with our person there!!! Yet she is fabricating a culture of systemic racism that we simply don’t have!0 -
Foxhound38 wrote: »I agree with immigration but probably disagree with multiculturalism. Each country has a culture, if you move there you need to be at least open to the idea of assimilating with that culture - learn the language, have a skill we need in the economy, learn how the locals do things. I think if you don't do that you end up with ghettos.
That said, if people are able to contribute and are willing to attempt assimilation - I don't see any reason to not welcome them. Many Polish people came here in the early 2000's and those who have stayed have completely added value to our country to name one example.
If it had ( or will ) work out like that, then all would be fine. The Poles that you mention are a very good example. But when one culture is religion driven, and by its very nature cannot ever be changed, that in itself makes assimilation all but impossible, then the problems appear. When the host Country has to change, instead of the emigrants, you are heading for trouble. And that's what is happening in several Countrys at the moment who have had large scale emigration over the years.0 -
Foxhound38 wrote: »I agree with immigration but probably disagree with multiculturalism. Each country has a culture, if you move there you need to be at least open to the idea of assimilating with that culture - learn the language, have a skill we need in the economy, learn how the locals do things. I think if you don't do that you end up with ghettos.
That said, if people are able to contribute and are willing to attempt assimilation - I don't see any reason to not welcome them. Many Polish people came here in the early 2000's and those who have stayed have completely added value to our country to name one example.
See... I don't get this attitude. You pick the Polish as your example of the benefit of immigration. They have a similar culture to ours. A history with devout religion. A history of drinking, fighting, oppression, and poverty. A European culture, with all the associations through centuries of ethics, and morality.
You say each country has it's culture but you're ignoring the differences that exist. Take Spain, Italy, and Greece, for example. All extremely corrupt countries, from the governments right down to their social fabric... very different to our own cultures, but they share a common bond through being European, and a shared history. Even though, their ethics are suspect at times, we can reach common ground with them, because they're part of our overall cultural evolution.. as western nations. Even Russia, while at the extreme borders, shares some of that evolution, although they stray at times.
But take African cultures. There is nothing similar. There is no common ground except on the most shallow of comparisons (wishful thinking in most cases). Colonialism tried to impart those western values, and failed badly. The UN and Aid development followed after, and also failed pretty badly. People like to focus on the negatives of colonialism, without recognising that what was left behind, was in most cases, cultures which were opposites of our own.. and they've since evolved into something else entirely. How about you provide a non-western nation with a distinctly different culture (plenty to choose from), and then apply your logic to them? (Not SE Asia since they're a special case, and there are rarely any problems with them)
Also, You seem to be mixing up integration and assimilation.. they're two very different things.0 -
Yes.
Here is what Ali Selim wants:
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/09/03/a-clash-of-values/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/call-for-state-schools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810
"He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But, he points out, “any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam”.
No more raffles.
RSE curriculum to be changed.
Big changes to PE classes.
"When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.
Can you imagine if I landed into Iraq or Iran and started demanding changes to their schools?
This lad is very confident, even brazen, that he suggests massive changes to music and physical education here.
What is worse is that some Irish people, soft in the head, would probably agree with him, all in the name of pandering to the idea that "Ireland = bad" and "foreign imported culture" =good.
Exactly, or worse still Saudi Arabia, had the misfortune of going there for a short project. One of our team was held up for over an hour on arrival because they believed a pocket dictionary was a Bible.
No issue with immigration, disagree with multiculturalism.
Regardless of thoughts on Vladimir Putin, think he was spot on when he said
"If they prefer Shari ‘a Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that’s the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell ‘discrimination’."“Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”
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6 years ago the first mosque in Galway opened, now there are 3.
Who finances these mosques? What do they teach their children about gays and women's rights?0 -
6 years ago the first mosque in Galway opened, now there are 3.
Who finances these mosques? What do they teach their children about gays and women's rights?
A pal works in third level and lot of students go to a mosque in Clonsilla. Apparently it’s somewhere between borderline radicalisation and the worst parts of the Koran.
There are many parents I’m told who disagree with the teachings but feel they can’t speak out - one told my friend “would you feel right as a Catholic outing a paedophile priest?”
Er yeah absolutely, I would for sure!!0 -
A pal works in third level and lot of students go to a mosque in Clonsilla. Apparently it’s somewhere between borderline radicalisation and the worst parts of the Koran.
There are many parents I’m told who disagree with the teachings but feel they can’t speak out - one told my friend “would you feel right as a Catholic outing a paedophile priest?”
Er yeah absolutely, I would for sure!!
You're not comparing like with like though. You've grown up in a nation that has sought to put behind the censorship, the heavy regulations and church authority. As a child, that was nearing completion for me, and I grew up in a devout family.
Muslims are typically different, both for the religion itself, and the national cultures they're coming from. They're usually coming from societies with little in the way of social mobility, with layers of authority. Official, social, and religious. While Islam itself, tends to promote ideas of equality (for males), there tends to be the authority given to older people, and their leaders. An authority that doesn't tend to be questioned often. Peer/community pressure reinforces that authority, which means there will be a culture to silence preventing those within from speaking to those without.
It's all very well to claim that you'd speak out against a paedophile priest when you live in a nation with laws that are enforced (and our communities won't judge you harshly for doing so).. but Islamic nations tend to be closer to police states where the laws are negotiable. The social rules themselves are similar dependent on the power of those within the community. Your claim is of one who doesn't acknowledge the very real differences between our culture and theirs.
Don't get me wrong. I understand and appreciate your statement. I'd be similar. However, I know from conversations with older relatives that they wouldn't have been.... because they grew up in a very different Ireland. Just as those within Islam, also grow up in a very different Ireland.
We must remember that other cultures can be far more strict and repressive than ours, and simply living in Ireland/Europe, is not going to reduce the influence of those cultures. That's why we should be wary of multiculturalism, and more importantly, of Islam. Islam being one of the most obvious series of cultures which are most likely to follow their own cultural norms, than ours.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »You're not comparing like with like though. You've grown up in a nation that has sought to put behind the censorship, the heavy regulations and church authority. As a child, that was nearing completion for me, and I grew up in a devout family.
Muslims are typically different, both for the religion itself, and the national cultures they're coming from. They're usually coming from societies with little in the way of social mobility, with layers of authority. Official, social, and religious. While Islam itself, tends to promote ideas of equality (for males), there tends to be the authority given to older people, and their leaders. An authority that doesn't tend to be questioned often. Peer/community pressure reinforces that authority, which means there will be a culture to silence preventing those within from speaking to those without.
It's all very well to claim that you'd speak out against a paedophile priest when you live in a nation with laws that are enforced (and our communities won't judge you harshly for doing so).. but Islamic nations tend to be closer to police states where the laws are negotiable. The social rules themselves are similar dependent on the power of those within the community. Your claim is of one who doesn't acknowledge the very real differences between our culture and theirs.
Don't get me wrong. I understand and appreciate your statement. I'd be similar. However, I know from conversations with older relatives that they wouldn't have been.... because they grew up in a very different Ireland. Just as those within Islam, also grow up in a very different Ireland.
We must remember that other cultures can be far more strict and repressive than ours, and simply living in Ireland/Europe, is not going to reduce the influence of those cultures. That's why we should be wary of multiculturalism, and more importantly, of Islam. Islam being one of the most obvious series of cultures which are most likely to follow their own cultural norms, than ours.
That’s an excellent point - a priest from an elderly aunt’s parish was jailed for abuse and to her dying day she defended him.0 -
Before Covid19 i believe 70%+ of these new Irish from Africa/Asia where on the dole, i imagine it will be higher now, why are we importing people into the country who are n5ot contributing to the nation and never likely too?
Do we not have enough of our own Irish work shy that we need to import them from abroad?
If we where actually getting Doctors and engineers don't think anyone would object, but that clearly ain't the case.
Because certain entities are making a fortune out of it... **** Ireland though, so long as the coffers are filled.0 -
That’s an excellent point - a priest from an elderly aunt’s parish was jailed for abuse and to her dying day she defended him.
Probably because in all other ways he was an excellent priest. I know of priests who were done for the abuse they performed, but in every other aspect of their lives, they were wonderful people who did a ton of good for the community.
In any case, the point remains that we can't make comparisons between the RRC and Islam. We've had 30+ years of society reducing the power of religion, and social values reflect that. Muslims don't have that same movement.. if anything they've gone the opposite direction, giving more power to their clergy or the Elders councils.0 -
Excellent article today in the Examiner about a Sikh family who live in Direct Provision- they have made such a good life here with their chance, kids doing well - and now handing out free masks to their local community.
I’d take hundreds more of these into the country!0 -
Excellent article today in the Examiner about a Sikh family who live in Direct Provision- they have made such a good life here with their chance, kids doing well - and now handing out free masks to their local community.
I’d take hundreds more of these into the country!
They are good people
No problem with them coming here0 -
SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »They are good people
No problem with them coming here
I agree that they are generally good people. I'd take them over many other groups any day.
Here's a question for you though. How many are you ok with coming here?
How much are you willing to dilute down the native population?
What's the percentage?
We need to start explicitly defining this line, because if we don't, we're going to wake up in less than 50 years as a minority in our own homeland if current trends continue, and there's no reason to think they won't.
As recently as the 90s, Ireland was for all intents and purposes demographically homogenous. 95%+ Irish. Probably closer to 100% Irish really.
Now it's a hair above 80%. 20% down in about 20 years. Are we ok with it getting to 70%? 60%? 50%?
10%?
Is Ireland even Ireland at less than half the population being native Irish people?
That's where we're heading like a freight train within a few decades unless something drastically changes.
I don't want to be a disenfranchised minority in my own nation. I'm told every day how awful it is being a minority. I agree, which is why I don't want to be one. I am an Irishman who's family goes back centuries, perhaps millenia, on this land. I want my ethnic group to reign supreme here and to retain political and cultural hegemony on this island forever, and I make absolutely zero apologies about that. But if things continue as they are, that will soon not be the case, and no amount of "based Sikhs" are gonna somehow make it all ok.0 -
I agree that they are generally good people. I'd take them over many other groups any day.
Here's a question for you though. How many are you ok with coming here?
How much are you willing to dilute down the native population?
What's the percentage?
We need to start explicitly defining this line, because if we don't, we're going to wake up in less than 50 years as a minority in our own homeland if current trends continue, and there's no reason to think they won't.
As recently as the 90s, Ireland was for all intents and purposes demographically homogenous. 95%+ Irish. Probably closer to 100% Irish really.
Now it's a hair above 80%. 20% down in about 20 years. Are we ok with it getting to 70%? 60%? 50%?
10%?
Is Ireland even Ireland at less than half the population being native Irish people?
That's where we're heading like a freight train within a few decades unless something drastically changes.
I don't want to be a disenfranchised minority in my own nation. I'm told every day how awful it is being a minority. I agree, which is why I don't want to be one. I am an Irishman who's family goes back centuries, perhaps millenia, on this land. I want my ethnic group to reign supreme here and to retain political and cultural hegemony on this island forever, and I make absolutely zero apologies about that. But if things continue as they are, that will soon not be the case, and no amount of "based Sikhs" are gonna somehow make it all ok.
There should never come a time where native Irish should come anywhere near being a minority in their own country
We see the mistakes made in other countries0 -
SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »There should never come a time where native Irish should come anywhere near being a minority in their own country
We see the mistakes made in other countries
I agree. Our political leaders don't however, and that goes for all the main parties. FF,FG, GP, SF, most (all?) independents have absolutely no interest in talking about this, and are actually all facilitating it.
So right now we're declining at about 1% a year give or take. The math isn't complicated. Irish women aren't coming close to even replacement level birth rates, and the birth rates for non-Irish, and especially non-European populations living here dwarfs our average and is comfortably above replacement. Sure, it'll take a few decades, but this train is only going in one direction right now.
If anybody is concerned about this, and you should be, you gotta stop voting for these traitorous parties. All of them. That includes Sinn Fein for anyone still confusing them for some kind of nationalist party. They most certainly are not that - they might actually be the worst when it comes to immigration in fact.0 -
Again the 'quaint' idea that there are 'good people', 'qualified people' etc that should come here in unspecified numbers, no questions asked.
There are a billion people in India. It goes without saying there are probably at least a few hundred million who are competant, hard working, kind, salt of earth. That is not the issue, or the question.
If even 5% of the Indian population were hard working graduates that is 50 million people. Following the logic we keep hearing from official Ireland in recenf years, if these 50 million decided next week they fancy a move to Ireland, the Irish should roll out the welcoming committee, no questions asked.
Think of the gdp! The tongue would be out. Salivating.
It is a lunatic position to take, immoral and also illegal by the way.
The British Home office (who had an actual empire) are eventually being forced and embarrased into addressing the criminal forces behind this mass immigration.0 -
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Excellent article today in the Examiner about a Sikh family who live in Direct Provision- they have made such a good life here with their chance, kids doing well - and now handing out free masks to their local community.
I’d take hundreds more of these into the country!
I wouldn't. They're in DP, which means that they haven't been passed for access to the country, and that makes me wonder why they're not eligible. What is it that the migration officers have found or not found, that prevents them from being passed through into Ireland?
You see, I don't trust RTE when it comes to these kind of stories. I've seen too many reports or shows over the last year, pushing the virtues of migration, but nothing to discuss the perils. I've listened/watched to a variety of interviews with very easy and obviously agreed Q/A which steered away from anything negative, and entirely focusing on the positives for migrants (except for the racism that exists in Ireland)... and often I wonder to myself whether RTE even factcheck what it said in the interviews. Somehow I doubt it.
My point being is how could this family be doing well in DP? They're getting State support for their time here... which has turned into a PR stunt by handing out masks, which were probably paid by the Taxpayer anyway?
I would love to see thousands of migrants coming in legally, who have the education/skills to live independently without any handouts from the State. That's what I'd like to see. Keep the people coming in to DP very low, which is what Asylum should be about.0
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