What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It means there is a lot of fear and scaremongering in this thread of multiculturalism in this thread.
Such fear predominately working-class driven as they lack confidence in thier sense of Irishness.

So, you believe that the posters to this thread are mostly working class? That's a reach.

Any evidence to back up such a wild assumption? :rolleyes:

Wibbs

Kivaro wrote: »

To be honest with you, every time I see a poster trying to spout this nonsense that Irish culture does not exist, and also repeatedly posts gleefully about the current generation of Irish will soon "die off"; I have a mental image of a member from the Muslim Brotherhood in Dublin or some other Irish-hating group who have received all the benefits possible from the Irish State but are never happy here.

I don't. I have the image an Irish person projecting all sorts of self flagellation about that Irishness, or a particular kind of Irishness they define(the Irish language is a near given for the type. Either the lack of it, or the gra for it). And in this case that's a more concrete image.

gormdubhgorm

Kivaro wrote: »

To be honest with you, every time I see a poster trying to spout this nonsense that Irish culture does not exist, and also repeatedly posts gleefully about the current generation of Irish will soon "die off"; I have a mental image of a member from the Muslim Brotherhood in Dublin or some other Irish-hating group who have received all the benefits possible from the Irish State but are never happy here.
It is sad really ..... that they have so much hate for the Irish people in Ireland.

Irish culture has long being on its knees.

Language - going
Religion - gone

Music and the pub is all that is holding Irish culture together these days.

Sad part is. It is the Irish people's fault.
Ireland no longer has a 'hook' to say that is Irish identity.

The Brits have the Queen.

What does Ireland have?

'The craic'? A British loan word Gaelicised in the '60's'

OK people might say the GAA, but large swathes of Irish people are anti-GAA nevermind non-nationals.

It is no wonder that the thought of few migrants send some Irish people into a panic. Places like Britain are used to non-white faces even regularly using phrases like BAME. Took them decades to fully accept those from the commonwealth. Now they seem to accept wide view of Britishness which encapsulates many cultures.

Ireland will get there eventually, but what Irishness is has to be redefined and a hook has to be found.

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you believe that the posters to this thread are mostly working class? That's a reach.

Any evidence to back up such a wild assumption? :rolleyes:

No, some will be the future "Irish Enoch Powell's" who will light the spark for the working classes against multiculturalism.

No pain, no gain I suppose.

gormdubhgorm

Wibbs wrote: »

Ireland is in native population growth, but ignore the facts when they don't suit.


You didn't answer my question. Naturally. Again is in your example, Nigeria in need of 10% of its population to be White European to be more "cosmopolitan", and "mature" in its "post colonial inferiority complex"? Is Uganda? Is Sudan? Why does this diversity only go one way?

As for the ME, try getting social welfare and housing in Dubai. Never mind all those Muslim nations and their attitudes and lack of help for their fellow Muslim refugees. Stellar performance all around...

People go where the money is like the example(s) I gave.
Sudan has just signed a peace treaty after a civil war so how many people would want to go there? Were people clamouring to move to Belfast during or just after the troubles?

When former colonies in Africa have a superior standard of living to USA, Australia and the UK. Then you would see diversity economic migration. Plus white Europeans are mostly inclined to go to English speaking countries already populated by people with a connection from thier nation.

When India and Brazil become dominant economic countries Caucasian people will be falling over themselves to get on the gravy train of a higher standard of living.

Dyr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Off the ball stuff is all you seem to offer. Little real thought. Yet here you are conversing in English (the colonial language) making a snide remark about post colonial syndrome.

What would your concept of 'Irishness' be? Following the Dubs and hoping it covers up the glaring contradictions?

Maws meen lat, taw fayder linn fostawl treed an tanga nawshoonta?
Ock cyap mae nock rev du quid gwaliga fluershock gu lower

Sand

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You contradict yourself and say culture changes which is the point I was making about Multiculturalism!

There is a difference between a people changing vs. changing the people. Irish people have remained relatively static but our culture has changed dramatically. Multiculturalism isnt about Irish people changing, its about Irish people being displaced by non-Irish people.

Does this mean to be classed as Irish in your view it has to go back generations?

No, but you have to be of Irish descent to be Irish.

So being Irish is basically like mongrel there is no Irish race as such.

Oh this old chestnut. You don't even believe that yourself, or else you wouldn't be claiming new peoples are needed in Ireland.

Sand

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When India and Brazil become dominant economic countries Caucasian people will be falling over themselves to get on the gravy train of a higher standard of living.

Well, if your policies continue to be pursued they'll need to escape the dystopia Europe will have become.

Wibbs

Sand wrote: »

Oh this old chestnut. You don't even believe that yourself, or else you wouldn't be claiming new peoples are needed in Ireland.

Nail on the head. If it didn't exist why does it need "diversity"?

Gervais08

Wibbs wrote: »

Nail on the head. If it didn't exist why does it need "diversity"?

Have we ever had a reply to the question about why Nigeria - for example - isn’t pushed to accept more white people for the sake of “diversity” - surely if multiculturalism and a diluting of the native population is only a good thing, they should be pushed towards it, no ??

Cordell

That's colonialism, not multiculturalism.

Gervais08

Cordell wrote: »

That's colonialism, not multiculturalism.

Why ?

Cordell

Multiculturalism have only positive consequences, and that can't be the case with privileged people from an advanced culture moving in somewhere, let's say, not that advanced.

Arthur Daley

'They're coming here to pay for our pensions'

Jeez, getting fairly desperate now. It's always amusing when the left/green party advocate shipping people halfway around the world, away from their families, to add to Western carbon emission levels just so they can prop up fat pension schemes in the public sector.

You have to hand it to them, they don't give a rollicks. If Trump suggested such a privileged, self absorbed plan there'd be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Geuze

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The younger population is needed to pay for future pensions.

If so, then encourage Irish people to have more babies.

nullzero

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When India and Brazil become dominant economic countries Caucasian people will be falling over themselves to get on the gravy train of a higher standard of living.

Pffffttttt

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

India
And Brazil...

Ha ha ha ha ha

Two countries who have absolutely atrocious standards of living, one of which is only beginning to see the value of any level of sanitation the other with a crime rate beyond comprehension, I'm sure people will be scrambling to live in places with such deplorable standards of living that their own people would rather live in over crowded rental properties in this miserable country than spend another day in their home countries.

Yellow_Fern

I would actually say India has good chance of achieving development to a very high level. Its an enormous place and it has major sectarian issues , bad hygene, backward cultural practises and its held back by an enormous positive discrimination system. So it will never be like Europe but it will probably get very wealthy. It already has a serious space programme. Brazil on the other hand, I am not so sure. Brazil is a country that is rapidly aging before it has matured development.

Wibbs

Cordell wrote: »

Multiculturalism have only positive consequences,

List them please. I know it may sound easy on the surface of this politic, but if you can provide such a demonstrable list of positives, it'll be a first.

Cordell

I hope it's not too long for this late hour:

1. Food.

Kivaro

Cordell wrote: »

I hope it's not too long for this late hour:

1. Food.

That's an odd response.
For an independent agricultural rich island?
We need to import Pakistani and Nigerian people to support a small Island on the fringes of the West coast of Europe ..... in order to support us with food? We can manage fine by ourselves, Thank You.

Ireland is being scammed on an industrial scale with these types of asylum seeker. We are going into lockdown for probably 3 months at the very least. There are a substantial amount of Irish people heading out to work in the morning (during a lock down) to pay for the lifestyles of supposed asylum seekers who will spend the eternity of their lives in Ireland on welfare.

Plain and simple: It just ain't fair. I'm tired for paying for the lifestyles of those who do not want to contribute to the collective effort of us just surviving this catastrophe. They think "It's grand". The Irish will pay for everything. That is not right. We will go broke.

Justin Credible Darts

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Being Catholic had a lot to do with Irish identity. That is beyond question. Irish pub culture and is integral as well just the way it is.

I agree with you on the good work of foreign doctors and nurses. Also with your point on deporting those who commit serious crime.

I dont believe in that invisible am in the sky ****. and the general irish people have no problem with "lack of faith"


the muslims dont share that prospective.
In you r own word that is their identity.


I can slate jesus, budda etc,,,,try that **** with the muslims,


As for the pub culture, I think you need to check your facts on alcohol consumption per per person n% wise around the world and you will find the french, german etc consume more and they have far more "multiculturism than we have

John Doe1

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The fact you say Gaelic instead of Gaeilge says to me you are a lot more distant to Irishness than you pretend.

You contradict yourself and say culture changes which is the point I was making about Multiculturalism!

And in my opinion those fearful of it in Ireland are nothing more than hypocrites' as they have been enveloped by British culture language and pastimes.

Explain this part:



Does this mean to be classed as Irish in your view it has to go back generations?
All the way back in time does that mean Africa if you go back far enough.

Also you do realise people who ended up on the Island of Ireland intermingled with many different cultures. So being Irish is basically like mongrel there is no Irish race as such. Ireland is populated in the majority by what is known as Caucasians.

Basically what exactly is an Irish person to you a Caucasian non-traveller? Or what is your definition?

So by your argument, a country like say India which was heavily influenced by British colonialism has no real culture of its own and therefore has no right to complain if say 100 million (approx 10% of the population) uneducated randomers who share very little in common in terms of religion/culture/history were to settle there?

Wibbs

Cordell wrote: »

I hope it's not too long for this late hour:

1. Food.

And we have a winner. When pressed to list the positives of a large scale social experiment that apparently is so self evidently beneficial to the host nation and those that move to it that the positives are obvious and again all we get is food... You really couldn't make this up.

To be fair, when this thread kicked off I genuinely thought there would be a lot more easily definable positives and the gulf between the negatives and positives would be a lot lot closer and the pro and con folks would be more balanced. It seems I had also bought into the idea to some degree even with my reservations for both the host nations and cultures and the incoming ones, but at the same time hadn't really examined it too closely. That can be the danger with Obvious Truths we collectively believe without much questioning.

Gervais08

Wibbs wrote: »

And we have a winner. When pressed to list the positives of a large scale social experiment that apparently is so self evidently beneficial to the host nation and those that move to it that the positives are obvious and again all we get is food... You really couldn't make this up.

To be fair, when this thread kicked off I genuinely thought there would be a lot more easily definable positives and the gulf between the negatives and positives would be a lot lot closer and the pro and con folks would be more balanced. It seems I had also bought into the idea to some degree even with my reservations for both the host nations and cultures and the incoming ones, but at the same time hadn't really examined it too closely. That can be the danger with Obvious Truths we collectively believe without much questioning.

I find it baffling how people would be willing to accept higher taxes to pay for the benefits, housing and medical care needed for these people not to mention an increase in FGM, anti women and LGBT attitudes and behaviours, going back to religion pervading all aspects of life just when we were out of it - all for what ?

A curry you can probably get in M&S. Madness,

_Kaiser_

Wibbs wrote: »

List them please. I know it may sound easy on the surface of this politic, but if you can provide such a demonstrable list of positives, it'll be a first.

To be fair W, I think he was being ironic (?)

Kivaro

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

To be fair W, I think he was being ironic (?)

Yes, methinks that Cordell was being ironic.

Wibbs

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

To be fair W, I think he was being ironic (?)

I know but the joke is the ones in the thread who weren't being ironic(consciously) hadn't much else to add but the nebulous "food", "diversity" and "humanity".

Yellow_Fern

Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »

Perhaps consult yourself with the Poland, who for example will be approx 0.2% muslim by 2050, from 0.1% now (compare to Sweden, then no longer 'Sweden' as we know it at 20-30%)...
The V4 group will have all their customs, values and cultural heritage largely in place.

Ireland will likely by 4.6% muslim in 2050, not much, but still enough to affect or impede upon some daily experiences and forced changes of traditions.
This could easily be reduced by having a better IPO system, and accepting only valid cases.

There is some demographic modelling that implies Ireland will become muslim majority, in about 180 years. It is not very sophisticated modelling in my opinion (although I am not expert) but for what it is worth.

Rostan, Pierre, and Alexandra Rostan. "When will European Muslim population be majority and in which country?." PSU Research Review (2019).

Cordell

Wibbs wrote: »

I know but the joke is the ones in the thread who weren't being ironic(consciously) hadn't much else to add but the nebulous "food", "diversity" and "humanity".

Yes, because there is no positives, for that to be the case the multicultural cultures need to be superior, which is not the case, but quite the opposite. And there is no strength in diversity either, the strength comes from unity.

Patrick2010

Sean Moncriefe giving a soft interview on the topic of NGO people smugglers.