What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Wibbs

That said you must have done some deep searching indeed. I dunno if I should be flattered or take out a restraining order.

macpaccrack

Wibbs wrote: »

"Misogynistic"; questioning the increasing nonsense of the accepted truth of "feminism". Guilty as charged. OK pick any current argument from feminism that doesn't fit this rule: Women are always agentless victims and men/the "patriarchy" are always to blame. Just one will do.

"Far right nonsense"; questioning another accepted truth of multiculturalism that is demonstrably negative in so many ways, not least for those migrants who don't fit the existing society in colour or culture. Guilty as charged. I support the welfare state, free education and healthcare for all, restrictions on big business, equal rights on the basis of gender, politics, sexuality and race. Yeah, clearly I'm alt right. :rolleyes: Again this seems to confuse some.

This thread quite amply demonstrates that those in favour of multiculturalism, including the most vocal can give almost zero examples of positives for the (inevitably White and European) societies where this operates. They seem to tap out at exotic food and exoticism in general. To a degree that genuinely surprised me.

Then of course when the near zero weight argument fails they inevitably run to insult, veiled or direct, which shows the paucity of their argument, again to a degree that surprised me. I really did think there would be way more substantive debate on the pro side, but it seems I myself didn't explore the topic much and accepted it as much as they do. Your post falls into the veiled category. Zero substantive argument over any of my posts, so try and do a yellow pack pop psychology that explains away any argument you're not able to engage in.

Nope, if anything I'm more content these days. I only talked about that stuff in PI, when I was modding there, because that lot makes up a majority of posts in that forum(with some of that when modding the ladies lounge). My general take hasn't changed on the above, but if that's what you want to read as my general take on everything be my guest.

And again - and this seems to be a hard nut to crack for the One Truth ponies of any hue - just because someone takes a position against a politic it doesn't follow they take that position against people. Indeed beyond the obvious BS and victimhood of current feminism one major reason I can't stand that politic is it doesn't represent the vast majority of women I know and have known who weren't mewling saints of the Church of Latter Day Victimhood.

Wibbs you can articulate very well but I think its pretty obvious what happened. You started hanging around those PUA forums that became cesspools for alt right ideals and you were radicalised. You never thought that non-white people can't assimilate into mainly white countries or any of that nonsense before. Have you read your posts lately?

I think you might be lonely and are angry at the world because things haven't quite worked out for you and given your intelligence its something that your keenly aware of. Your posts come across as someone with anger at society.

Have you talked to the Samaritans? Even if its just a general chat they are incredibly good. You can reach them freephone on 116 123

biko

That guy knows you better than I do Wibbs

Notice the sly "you have a a mental problem, I am only trying to help" angle.

macpaccrack

Wibbs wrote: »

Pretty simple really. When I post in the motors forum I talk about cars. It doesn't mean I hate cyclists.

OK Wibbs but I hope if there is something upsetting you outside of Boards that you can learn to overcome it or confront it. Posting relentlessly about immigrants and getting worked up about someone having a slightly different skin complexion to you is not healthy. Nor is your anger towards women.

TomTomTim

biko wrote: »

That guy knows you better than I do Wibbs

Notice the sly "you have a a mental problem, I am only trying to help" angle.

If you're not a good little progressive, you must have mental issues :pac:
These types used to annoy me a bit, but they've gotten so ridiculous that it's actually become amusing at this stage.

macpaccrack

biko wrote: »

That guy knows you better than I do Wibbs

Notice the sly "you have a a mental problem, I am only trying to help" angle.

I am obviously not saying that. For 15 years straight you have posted every single day on Boards.ie be it in the morning, at noon or in the night. I don't know how you work, eat, have sex given how often you are online and posting. You know a regular poster on this site far better than I'll ever know the poster but I think your aloof if you can't see there has been a dramatic change in Wibbs postings.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

macpaccrack wrote: »

Wibbs you can articulate very well but I think its pretty obvious what happened. You started hanging around those PUA forums that became cesspools for alt right ideals and you were radicalised. You never thought that non-white people can't assimilate into mainly white countries or any of that nonsense before. Have you read your posts lately?

I think you might be lonely and are angry at the world because things haven't quite worked out for you and given your intelligence its something that your keenly aware of. Your posts come across as someone with anger at society.

Have you talked to the Samaritans? Even if its just a general chat they are incredibly good. You can reach them freephone on 116 123

Way to have an argument eh? Ignore what was posted but instead claim they’ve a mental disorder. Pick any point Wibbs has argued and try argue against it.

iebamm2580

thread being derailed with nonsense, usual tactic.

the descent

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah god no. Too many NGO's with their snouts in the trough pushing this "diversity" bollocks, with the help of some in the media pushing a noting to really see here. NB they're described as "undocumented", not what they are illegal immigrants.

I also note that apparently and I quote:


"It also found that 26% of those working were doing so in elder care in private homes"

How the hell are they able to do that? No Garda background checks? How did they get such jobs and through what agencies? That's another thing that needs to be tackled, those that employ such people and almost certainly for a lot less than locals.

I wouldn't blame people for taking jobs if their choices are limited/non-existent. I can't imagine there's a queue of applicants for these care home jobs, it's not exactly glamorous work, but it's absolutely essential and will continue to be as the average age of Ireland's population increases.
Generally, people come to live in Ireland because it's a safe, wealthy country with better opportunities than where they came from. If we had a higher minimum wage (living wage) and improved enforcement of paying same then this problem wouldn't exist.

Also, that term "illegal immigrant" is so inflammatory. They're people. People can't be illegal.

I've spent about half an hour scanning this thread and I must say I'm surprised by what I've read. It's so easy to generalise when it comes to groups of people. My personal experience of knowing non-white Irish and immigrants has been overwhelmingly positive. Ireland is a tiny country on the edge of Europe, and most of it is under-populated to the point that basic services such as trains are uneconomical to run. Immigration can only be a good thing for Ireland on the whole, and we can develop policy knowing what has and has not worked in other countries.

I've seen a lot of nonsense posts about the state of the UK and France with immigration and first of all, you cannot compare those countries to Ireland as they had colonial pasts, and secondly the reality is far from the race-war tabloid headlines that get shared. I currently live in London, I work in a company that employs more non-British people than British people, and walking down the street I see people from all corners of the globe. Immigration can and does work if people are given opportunity to succeed and agency to live their lives as part of a larger society.

WrenBoy

macpaccrack wrote: »

Wibbs you can articulate very well but I think its pretty obvious what happened. You started hanging around those PUA forums that became cesspools for alt right ideals and you were radicalised. You never thought that non-white people can't assimilate into mainly white countries or any of that nonsense before. Have you read your posts lately?

I think you might be lonely and are angry at the world because things haven't quite worked out for you and given your intelligence its something that your keenly aware of. Your posts come across as someone with anger at society.

Have you talked to the Samaritans? Even if its just a general chat they are incredibly good. You can reach them freephone on 116 123

Wow..

macpaccrack

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Way to have an argument eh? Ignore what was posted but instead claim they’ve a mental disorder. Pick any point Wibbs has argued and try argue against it.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone that believes skin complexions dictate a person's behaviour. He can wrap up the language of his argument all he wants but the entire premise is nonsense.

Wibbs is far too intelligent to actually believe racial superiority tripe so it makes me believe that something might be going on his life to start advocating it or maybe he is just angry with society and taking it out and immigrants, minorities, women etc.

WrenBoy

macpaccrack wrote: »

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone that believes skin complexions dictate a person's behaviour.

No one thinks that

Sand

macpaccrack wrote: »

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone that believes skin complexions dictate a person's behaviour. He can wrap up the language of his argument all he wants but the entire premise is nonsense.

Wibbs is far too intelligent to actually believe racial superiority tripe so it makes me believe that something might be going on his life to start advocating it or maybe he is just angry with society and taking it out and immigrants, minorities, women etc.

There is another alternative. Maybe you just don't understand Wibb's reasonable and evidence based views. No dramatic backstory required.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

WrenBoy wrote: »

No one thinks that

Literally nobody on this thread has said it. Again no argument... deflection.

Wibbs

the descent wrote: »

I wouldn't blame people for taking jobs if their choices are limited/non-existent. I can't imagine there's a queue of applicants for these care home jobs, it's not exactly glamorous work, but it's absolutely essential and will continue to be as the average age of Ireland's population increases.

More because employers can afford to pay them less. Economics, not humanity.

Generally, people come to live in Ireland because it's a safe, wealthy country with better opportunities than where they came from.

Then come here legally, many thousands do. Unless you're one of these "there are no borders" types.

If we had a higher minimum wage (living wage) and improved enforcement of paying same then this problem wouldn't exist.

Ireland has one of the best standards of living in the world. You said yourself that's why people come here.

Also, that term "illegal immigrant" is so inflammatory. They're people. People can't be illegal.

Tell that to people in Mountjoy. And it's not "inflammatory" it's accurate. They have entered and/or remain here illegally, unregistered, outside of the tax loop, unknown to authorities, they are therefore illegal immigrants.

I've spent about half an hour scanning this thread and I must say I'm surprised by what I've read. It's so easy to generalise when it comes to groups of people. My personal experience of knowing non-white Irish and immigrants has been overwhelmingly positive. Ireland is a tiny country on the edge of Europe, and most of it is under-populated to the point that basic services such as trains are uneconomical to run. Immigration can only be a good thing for Ireland on the whole, and we can develop policy knowing what has and has not worked in other countries.

I hate to break it to you but having a low population density is a good thing. Never mind that across the West more and more people are leaving the countryside to move to cities, no matter what the population or level of multiculturalism involved. Spain actually tried an experiment in importing folks from South America to try and populate rural areas and what happened? They pretty quickly moved to the cities. Never mind that multiculturalism is very much an urban not a rural thing. You are not going to repopulate the village of Ballygobackwards by importing people.

You also blindly accept multiculturalism as a good thing but give no real reasons why. Well not beyond the usual "I see exotic faces around". Why is the west in particular in such need of this? Should we promote multiculturalism to non White non European nations? Why not, if it's so great?

And then you go on to say in essence "well this time we'll get it right". There is zero evidence to suggest this. In just two decades of Irish multiculturalism we already see the seeds, nay saplings of ghettoisation. We already see Black folks more represented in social welfare payments and unemployment. But yeah, this time...

I've seen a lot of nonsense posts about the state of the UK and France with immigration and first of all, you cannot compare those countries to Ireland as they had colonial pasts, and secondly the reality is far from the race-war tabloid headlines that get shared. I currently live in London, I work in a company that employs more non-British people than British people, and walking down the street I see people from all corners of the globe. Immigration can and does work if people are given opportunity to succeed and agency to live their lives as part of a larger society.

Again with the exotic people stuff and for some reason seem to revel in the notion that a British company has a minority of British people working for it. And being an ex colonial power or not makes no difference. Again please show me one example of a western European nation where Black and Brown folks don't tend to be more clustered lower on the social economic scale than White folks. I'll give you a hint, there isn't one.

Justin Credible Darts

the descent wrote: »

People can't be illegal. .

people can be in a place where its illegal for them to be.


you get that right ?

macpaccrack

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Literally nobody on this thread has said it. Again no argument... deflection.

A direct quote from Wibbs on this thread:

''Not least for those migrants who don't fit the existing society in colour or culture. Guilty as charged.''

Wibbs

Sand wrote: »

There is another alternative. Maybe you just don't understand Wibb's reasonable and evidence based views. No dramatic backstory required.

And that's how empty this accepted truth and politic actually is. To a bloody scary degree. I mean pick pretty much any divisive debate over the last few decades and you will find reasoned and reasonable arguments on both sides. You may not necessarily agree with them, but arguments you will find and some will require some thinking to debate or refute them. But not this subject. The pro side appear to have literally nada beyond exoticisms, some vague sense of human charity and a second hand barely thought through notion that this must be a positive even when the most blind/naive would see many negatives. And when that fails insult and deflection of course. The pop psychology has been wheeled out before too, though this latter one is a doozie.

Wibbs

macpaccrack wrote: »

A direct quote from Wibbs on this thread:

''Not least for those migrants who don't fit the existing society in colour or culture. Guilty as charged.''

You appear to have some trouble with English comprehension. Or choose to more like. Not a single part of that sentence equates to "skin complexions dictate a person's behaviour".

*Trigger warning* Though it is of course more complex than that. *Trigger warning*

One's culture or skin colour informs one's life in subtle and not so subtle ways. A White person in France will have quite a different experience around their skin colour than a White person in Sudan. Just as a Black person in England will have a different life experience around their skin colour than a Black person in Namibia. And yes racism, the fear of the other is a large part of that. I've have stated that quite clearly more than once and it's a huge part of the failures of multiculturalism and is repeated everywhere this is in play. Hell, this innate tribalism is in play when there's no skin colour difference and it doesn't take much to label a person Us or Other. It's been like that throughout human history and everywhere humans have lived and it's not going away any time soon.

Wibbs

Sand wrote: »

There is another alternative. Maybe you just don't understand Wibb's reasonable and evidence based views. No dramatic backstory required.

Now they've changed tack, I'm both a mentaller who frets about themselves on cold winter evenings and a racist, depending on the post, or musings on my intelligence. That said there have been a shed load of extremely accomplished and intelligent people throughout history who were also rabid racist feckwits, so that's no indication.

Have the rules changed on here? How is that macpaccrack poster allowed to attack others with impunity, and apparent immunity?

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Have the rules changed on here? How is that macpaccrack poster allowed to attack others with impunity, and apparent immunity?

Whatever about their posting in this thread, they were supporting political violence in another thread. All my cards are for insulting people, yet others are allowed to support political violence without penalty?

Tell me how

Wibbs wrote: »

You appear to have some trouble with English comprehension. Or choose to more like. Not a single part of that sentence equates to "skin complexions dictate a person's behaviour".

*Trigger warning* Though it is of course more complex than that. *Trigger warning*

One's culture or skin colour informs one's life in subtle and not so subtle ways. A White person in France will have quite a different experience around their skin colour than a White person in Sudan. Just as a Black person in England will have a different life experience around their skin colour than a Black person in Namibia. And yes racism, the fear of the other is a large part of that. I've have stated that quite clearly more than once and it's a huge part of the failures of multiculturalism and is repeated everywhere this is in play. Hell, this innate tribalism is in play when there's no skin colour difference and it doesn't take much to label a person Us or Other. It's been like that throughout human history and everywhere humans have lived and it's not going away any time soon.

But it is going away at a rate which could be referred to as high speed in comparison to general societal shifts throughout human history to this point.

Ease of travel, opportunities to study and work abroad, constant movement for vacation, entertainment and tourism purposes means more and more interaction and integration amongst different cultures. Media alone in particular has served to break down barriers; movies, music and the internet has exposed people to different cultures at hyper speeds compared to the past.

In Ireland in 2002, 5.8% of the resident population were non irish, in 2019, that had risen to 12.7%. With no issues as a consequence of this influx of people. Multiculturalism is already happening Successfully. Societies evolve, they always have done it's just now happening faster than before.

Wibbs

Tell me how wrote: »

But it is going away at a rate which could be referred to as high speed in comparison to general societal shifts throughout human history to this point.

Ease of travel, opportunities to study and work abroad, constant movement for vacation, entertainment and tourism purposes means more and more interaction and integration amongst different cultures. Media alone in particular has served to break down barriers; movies, music and the internet has exposed people to different cultures at hyper speeds compared to the past.

In Ireland in 2002, 5.8% of the resident population were non irish, in 2019, that had risen to 12.7%. With no issues as a consequence of this influx of people. Multiculturalism is already happening Successfully. Societies evolve, they always have done it's just now happening faster than before.

No issues eh? No ghettoisation kicking off, Black folks with the same rates of unemployment as Whites(of any origin)? In just two decades.

And yes media and travel has increased the speed of exposure to different cultures, yet the vast majority tend to stick quite closely to their "own" and one could argue that the spread of media means fewer reasons to directly import culture on the backs of people.

And while societies evolve, human nature takes much longer. We have general acceptance in Ireland of Gay folks, the right to choose etc, yet these have been in play at various times in various places trhoughout history. They didn't land in a spaceship out of nowhere. However faultlines along ethnic or colour or culture are a near cast iron given throughout history. Vanishingly few multicultural societies have functioned like the way we hope. Pretty much none and not for long. Or have you missed the BLM protests across the multicultural West? Clearly it's all just peachy for Black and Brown people in this diversity utopia you speak of.

macpaccrack

Wibbs wrote: »

And that's how empty this accepted truth and politic actually is. To a bloody scary degree. I mean pick pretty much any divisive debate over the last few decades and you will find reasoned and reasonable arguments on both sides. You may not necessarily agree with them, but arguments you will find and some will require some thinking to debate or refute them. But not this subject. The pro side appear to have literally nada beyond exoticisms, some vague sense of human charity and a second hand barely thought through notion that this must be a positive even when the most blind/naive would see many negatives. And when that fails insult and deflection of course. The pop psychology has been wheeled out before too, though this latter one is a doozie.

Not least for those migrants who don't fit the existing society in colour or culture. Guilty as charged.''

Dress it up all you want but non-white people shouldn't be in white countries. The sentence of yours above says everything about your stance.

You want a pure, aryan state.

macpaccrack

WrenBoy wrote: »

No one thinks that

''Not least for those migrants who don't fit the existing society in colour or culture. Guilty as charged.''

A direct quote from Wibbs. People with different skin colours can't assimilate to traditionally white countries.

Wibbs is also an MODERATOR of boards.ie and he publicly says stuff like that

jmayo

biko wrote: »

That guy knows you better than I do Wibbs

Notice the sly "you have a a mental problem, I am only trying to help" angle.

Beware Biko.
How many times has it now be referenced around here about how you are a mod (although elsewhere) and thus how you can't possibly have these views?

Deleted User wrote: »

Have the rules changed on here? How is that macpaccrack poster allowed to attack others with impunity, and apparent immunity?

They haven't changed.
Were you around for the Politics Cafe where one particular mod, now ex mod I think, always argued for one side and was slapping out bans and infractions on anyone that dare argue with them.
It was in no small measure why the forum went with a subscription system and why it fell apart.
And yet they got away with calling into question the bona fides of a garda whistleblower.

Or go over to old Politics forum and see how discussion about how certain politicians were dressed in t-shirts in the Dail was deemed not political enough of a topic.
Then anyone that was questioning of the EU was immediately hunted down and chastised, more often than not by the mods.

macpaccrack

Deleted User wrote: »

Have the rules changed on here? How is that macpaccrack poster allowed to attack others with impunity, and apparent immunity?

Am I attacking him? I am asking why the guy has changed his stances so drastically and challenging him on his comments that other colours should not be in traditional white countries.

Wibbs makes some long winded paragraphs, it reads like a novel and is intelligently put together but cut through the bull**** and you can see it for what is. Wibbs doesn't like people of other ethnicities in his country. He wants them gone. Even if they are Irish people of other colours (he rails about ghettosiation etc) the end of the day that is a racist stance so you draw your own conclusions.

jmayo

macpaccrack wrote: »

''Not least for those migrants who don't fit the existing society in colour or culture. Guilty as charged.''

A direct quote from Wibbs. People with different skin colours can't assimilate to traditionally white countries.

Wibbs is also an MODERATOR of boards.ie and he publicly says stuff like that

You remind me of someone?
Can't quite put my finger on it.

jmayo

Anyone notice how of late reference is being made to people of certain viewpoints being mods, even if they are mods on other fora.

One might even see it as being a tactic to remove dissent or other viewpoints from the site.