What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Justin Credible Darts

"a danger to sexual temptation"

The fact its the man that thinks this from a handfshake shows where his mindset is at, but typical muslim, blame the woman.

I am sure the Irish women would love boats loads of these people coming here and treating them like dirt in their own country

4068ac1elhodqr

The shaking hands litmus test is likely too little, too late for Germany.
Denmark introduced this rule (along with others including language and values) to ensure better integration, many, many moons ago.
France has only just realised the issue of non-integration.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

"a danger to sexual temptation"

The fact its the man that thinks this from a handfshake shows where his mindset is at, but typical muslim, blame the woman.

I am sure the Irish women would love boats loads of these people coming here and treating them like dirt in their own country

Actually, it's not primarily about blaming the woman... It's about blaming both. The man would be accused of a weakness in character and faith in succumbing to the temptation involved. The woman would be blamed for providing the temptation. But there's blame for both..

Trust me, I get the dislike of Islam... there's a lot of cultures associated with it, that I really don't like, but let's not go overboard here in our dislike. Different social groups and cultures have issues about human contact, and displays of skin. Islam isn't alone in that... Ever met a group of Mormons? <shudders>

Take myself when I left Ireland originally, I wasn't terribly experienced or sophisticated, and had been raised in a devout Catholic family, and while I'd left the religion behind me, I had absorbed many of the values, and perceptions about acceptable behavior. Heading to Spain where people were more "open" or when I ended up in Japan, each opened my eyes further. I think we forget just how retarded our own culture used to be about sex, and what was considered "acceptable behavior" in a social setting. Sure, it's changed considerably, but it's not that long ago, when people here were very straight-laced in their behavior.

As for Irish women... Islamic guys are often very smooth and charming. In public. It's only after marriage that the controlling really kicks in, and a lot of what is done, will be behind closed doors, or within a select group of accepted people, likely other Muslims. I've known many women from all kinds of backgrounds go absolutely gagga for muslim/arab guys.

Justin Credible Darts

I am saying the man is to blame for the thoughts in his head.
If he thinks a woman shaking is hand is sexual temptation thaen the proplem is with the mindset of the man.

Then he blames the woman for what is in his head.

Its clear to me, the man is the problem in that situation

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I am saying the man is to blame for the thoughts in his head.
If he thinks a woman shaking is hand is sexual temptation thaen the proplem is with the mindset of the man.

Then he blames the woman for what is in his head.

Its clear to me, the man is the problem in that situation

Ahh well, we're products of our cultural upbringing, religion being part of that. It took me a long time to shrug off a lot of the teachings I received from the C Church, and my grandparents influence.

In any case, Irish culture (or western/European) should be supreme within such countries, and we shouldn't need to compromise our own values just to make them feel comfortable here. Moving to a country brings the responsibility to respect the culture of the land, and accept that your own cultural values likely have no place there. I've learned that myself in Asia..

Dyr

enricoh wrote: »

black youths in Ireland are being exploited into becoming money mules, over 80% of those caught are black. No mention of what nationality the criminals are funnily enough!
The solution according to a migrant network spokesperson - more welfare!!

The solution is for customs to stop checking blacks because its racist

Problem gone

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh well, we're products of our cultural upbringing, religion being part of that. It took me a long time to shrug off a lot of the teachings I received from the C Church, and my grandparents influence.

In any case, Irish culture (or western/European) should be supreme within such countries, and we shouldn't need to compromise our own values just to make them feel comfortable here. Moving to a country brings the responsibility to respect the culture of the land, and accept that your own cultural values likely have no place there. I've learned that myself in Asia..

That's how it should be too Klaz. But Islam is not like any other grouping...the religion trumps everything. And they will absolutely not leave their culture or Islamic values "at the door" so to speak. On the other hand, should you visit an Islamic Country, in most of them you will abide by their rules and culture, because you will have to. Women especially will conform to the dress code.

Sand

Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »

France has only just realised the issue of non-integration.

France is, like the USA, a product of the 18th century enlightenment, trying to deal with 21st century problems and failing. If I recall correctly, a few years back a French court ruled against the idea that there even was an indigenous French people. When they don't even recognize the existence of their own people, they're surely unprepared to integrate others with that people.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

France is, like the USA, a product of the 18th century enlightenment, trying to deal with 21st century problems and failing. If I recall correctly, a few years back a French court ruled against the idea that there even was an indigenous French people. When they don't even recognize the existence of their own people, they're surely unprepared to integrate others with that people.

France has too many connections to it's original states within it's borders, with people connecting more to older associations, so there's a greater division among French people. The only unifying aspect within France is their hatred of Paris. Still, it's a country with many problems not only past allegiances but an uncontrollable urge to form a mob to protest just about anything, wrecking the areas around them, and then complaining about the taxes they need to pay.. They're a funny people. I've always enjoyed my time staying in France, especially with those in the South, although Brittany French are a wonderful group of people too.

TBH I'm hoping the ethnic problems with Algerians and other immigrants will bring them together as a national group. They've always had a certain national arrogance, but that's tempered by almost an inferiority complex from ww2, and what came after. I'm genuinely hoping that they get their act together and manage to combat Germany's worst impulses towards unnecessary immigration, as a leader within the EU, especially with the gap left from the UK's influence, France could step up as a political equal with Germany.

Alas, I get the feeling that the French will over-react (as they often do), and manage to alienate themselves within Europe over how they handle the situation. They really need to be building alliances with like-minded nations about the whole immigration question, but also about dealing with those who have arrived/settled already.

Sand

Deleted User wrote: »

Alas, I get the feeling that the French will over-react (as they often do), and manage to alienate themselves within Europe over how they handle the situation. They really need to be building alliances with like-minded nations about the whole immigration question, but also about dealing with those who have arrived/settled already.

I don't think there is any risk of the French government alienating people in Europe. Firstly, most people in the EU wish their own governments would follow suit. Secondly, the French are only carrying out very, very mild actions and then only for electoral advantage. It wasn't so long ago France was criticizing Italy for taking measures to prevent crossings of the Med.

The US has a guiding myth that inside every person in the world, there is an American trying to get out. France similarly believes there is a Frenchman in every human being. It's an 18th century belief, and it has met it's match.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

I don't think there is any risk of the French government alienating people in Europe.

Alienating itself from other countries in Europe. Not from people. European governments have been virtue signalling long enough now about immigration for it to become an ingrained habit. Changing that habit will require some deft maneuvering. A single nation coming out against immigration, will be pushed aside, whereas a bloc will have greater chance of success. It's very possible for other nations who have previously committed themselves to favoring immigration policies to alienate France for going against the acceptable standard. Similar to how Poland was treated, but France being a bigger player, would likely have greater consequences. The EU itself might feel the need to get involved.. so I'd be interested in the French government being smart about this.

Firstly, most people in the EU wish their own governments would follow suit.

Personally, I suspect that most people don't really know how they feel about it because it hasn't really been an allowed topic for common conversation. Oh, I've heard the bitching, but it's either extremely hesitant, or outright nasty bitching. People haven't had the chance to form logical/rational beliefs against the immigration situation.

Secondly, the French are only carrying out very, very mild actions and then only for electoral advantage. It wasn't so long ago France was criticizing Italy for taking measures to prevent crossings of the Med.

I'm more worried about their mob mentality, and responding emotionally to an attack, or some other problem, encouraging the more extreme political groups to expand in popularity.

The US has a guiding myth that inside every person in the world, there is an American trying to get out. France similarly believes there is a Frenchman in every human being. It's an 18th century belief, and it has met it's match.

Ahh.. I'm not so sure about that.. I think most French felt themselves unable to refuse Arabs entry because of their past governmental policies, and because Southern France, always had a mixed Mediterranean population, which behaved mostly as other French people would. It was just easier to believe that the success and "power" of their culture would encourage others to conform/integrate, but, yes, they've gotten over that belief.

The US myth is more about their view of democracy being what people want.. not so much that there's an American trying to get out.. after all, few Americans really understand/appreciate what it means to be American anymore. That's been lost over the last four decades.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

France has too many connections to it's original states within it's borders, with people connecting more to older associations, so there's a greater division among French people. The only unifying aspect within France is their hatred of Paris. Still, it's a country with many problems not only past allegiances but an uncontrollable urge to form a mob to protest just about anything, wrecking the areas around them, and then complaining about the taxes they need to pay.. They're a funny people. I've always enjoyed my time staying in France, especially with those in the South, although Brittany French are a wonderful group of people too.

TBH I'm hoping the ethnic problems with Algerians and other immigrants will bring them together as a national group. They've always had a certain national arrogance, but that's tempered by almost an inferiority complex from ww2, and what came after. I'm genuinely hoping that they get their act together and manage to combat Germany's worst impulses towards unnecessary immigration, as a leader within the EU, especially with the gap left from the UK's influence, France could step up as a political equal with Germany.

Alas, I get the feeling that the French will over-react (as they often do), and manage to alienate themselves within Europe over how they handle the situation. They really need to be building alliances with like-minded nations about the whole immigration question, but also about dealing with those who have arrived/settled already.

They might not alienate as many as you would think. There is a growing nr of ordinary law abiding citizens who are getting very tired of immigration and multiculture. And sooner or later this pressure will be felt..look at AFD in Germany., and brexit was sold on immigration issues too.The usually staid Swiss recently held a referendum on limiting the Nr's of immigrants. The vote was 40% for and 60% against, so the 60% won, But it was held against a backdrop of EU rules, if the limiters won the vote, then the trade link with the EU would have been broken, so I'd take that result more in favour of maintaining the relationship with the EU than the immigration issue. If the EU "sword" was not held over the vote, how might it have gone? But even before this horrific killing, Macron was speaking very strongly against Islamic Jihadism and the creation of what he called "a parallel system " which went completely against the French way of life. It was very strongly worded statement, which spoke of investigating foreign funded Mosques and blocking such funding streams plus deporting any Jihadist preaching Imam's. This killing has accelerated this process, but i'd expect it to be massively increased in the coming weeks and months.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

They might not alienate as many as you would think. There is a growing nr of ordinary law abiding citizens who are getting very tired of immigration and multiculture. The usually staid Swiss recently held a referendum on limiting the Nr's of immigrants. The vote was 40% for and 60% against, so the 60% won, But it was held against a backdrop of EU rules, if the limiters won the vote, then the trade link with the EU would have been broken, so I'd take that result more in favour of maintaining the relationship with the EU than the immigration issue. If the EU "sword" was not held over the vote, how might it have gone? But even before this horrific killing, Macron was speaking very strongly against Islamic Jihadism and the creation of what he called "a parallel system " which went completely against the French way of life. It was very strongly worded statement, which spoke of investigating foreign funded Mosques and blocking such funding streams plus deporting any Jihadist preaching Imam's. This killing has accelerated this process, but i'd expect it to be massively increased in the coming weeks and months.

Oh, I'm fully expecting the coming Covid recession to really change peoples views on immigration... the problem is what happens after the recession ends. Will the lesson be learned, or will they simply go back to past behavior, because people are no longer annoyed/outraged...?

Still, I get what you're saying, and I'd mostly agree.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, I'm fully expecting the coming Covid recession to really change peoples views on immigration... the problem is what happens after the recession ends. Will the lesson be learned, or will they simply go back to past behavior, because people are no longer annoyed/outraged...?

Still, I get what you're saying, and I'd mostly agree.

Say in 2050 when the historical record of the first half of this century is being recorded, Covid-19 will be seen as the exact point when the World changed itself..and it will be completely unrecognizable to what it once was in most cases. But what form these changes will take, I have not got a clue.

Aleece2020

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

If he thinks a woman shaking is hand is sexual temptation thaen the proplem is with the mindset of the man.

You're right there. A handshake is a benign and totally non-sexual gesture. If a man is viewing it as somehow a form of sexual temptation just because it's a woman's hand he's shaking then that 100% shows a very negative attitude towards how he views women.

Deleted User wrote: »

As for Irish women... Islamic guys are often very smooth and charming. In public. It's only after marriage that the controlling really kicks in, and a lot of what is done, will be behind closed doors, or within a select group of accepted people, likely other Muslims. I've known many women from all kinds of backgrounds go absolutely gagga for muslim/arab guys.

This is very true. Abusers and manipulators do not start off being that way. They can't, otherwise they'd never get as far as marriage etc. They will start off being a great partner and show you everything you want to see. What they want is for you to become co-dependent so that you won't leave them when the abuse starts.

Once they think they have you locked in and that you won't leave them, they'll start letting their real attitude come out little by little; testing how much you're willing to tolerate over time and progressively getting worse. Controlling and manipulative behavior only ever gets worse over time; I can tell you that from experience.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I am sure the Irish women would love boats loads of these people coming here and treating them like dirt in their own country

Sure, aren't we already treated like dirt in this country?

Geuze

I welcome legal immigrants. I welcome EU immigrants.

I do not welcome illegal immigrants, like this lad:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/father-of-three-accused-of-running-six-brothels-where-habitual-prostitution-took-place-39646414.html

"A father-of-three has been accused of operating six brothels around Dublin, each of which was occupied by sex workers with “habitual prostitution” taking place.

Hani Shoky (44) is alleged to have leased the raided properties, mostly suburban apartments, over the course of two years.

He was granted bail despite garda objections when he appeared in Dublin District Court.

Mr Shoky, an Egyptian asylum seeker with an address Abbot Court, Cualanor, Dún Laoghaire, is charged with six counts of brothel-keeping and eight of using false supporting documents for lease agreements on the properties."



Like the vast majority of asylum-seekers, he is a criminal, a bogus asylum-seeker, and he should be deported as soon as possible.

Justin Credible Darts

Geuze wrote: »

I welcome legal immigrants. I welcome EU immigrants.

I do not welcome illegal immigrants, like this lad:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/father-of-three-accused-of-running-six-brothels-where-habitual-prostitution-took-place-39646414.html

"A father-of-three has been accused of operating six brothels around Dublin, each of which was occupied by sex workers with “habitual prostitution” taking place.

Hani Shoky (44) is alleged to have leased the raided properties, mostly suburban apartments, over the course of two years.

He was granted bail despite garda objections when he appeared in Dublin District Court.

Mr Shoky, an Egyptian asylum seeker with an address Abbot Court, Cualanor, Dún Laoghaire, is charged with six counts of brothel-keeping and eight of using false supporting documents for lease agreements on the properties."



Like the vast majority of asylum-seekers, he is a criminal, a bogus asylum-seeker, and he should be deported as soon as possible.

no doubt entitled to free legal aid too

TomTomTim

https://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-should-end-by-2023-and-be-replaced-with-state-owned-accommodation-centres-report-says-5238573-Oct2020/#comments

It's funny how these "expert" groups are nearly always from one side of the political isle.

It’s understood the report recommends that any person who has been living in Direct Provision for more than two years be granted leave-to-remain for a period of five years – pending security vetting.

A payment similar to the Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) would also be made available as well as a weekly allowance under this new system. It’s understood Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien has been briefed on the report, which calls for a mix of solutions to accommodate protection applicants.

Dr Day’s report was drawn up in consultation with a number of NGOs, including Nasc, the Irish Refugee Council and Movement of Asylum Seekers in Ireland (MASI) as well as current and retired senior civil servants.

The fact that the above groups all get a say in the matter, without any dissenting groups in the mix for balance, is absurd.

Wibbs

TomTomTim wrote: »

The fact that the above groups all get a say in the matter, without any dissenting groups in the mix for balance, is absurd.

There is no doubt that there are clearly vested interests in this debate and politic, with zero balance except for nutters on Arsebook. Now those vested interests are mostly genuine in their beliefs and fair enough, but there are others with careers and cash at stake in this.

Then we have the Irish over reliance on NGO's in general with a multitude of same with overlap, if not complete duplication competing for resources and attention. Then again look how government and the civil service often operate so that wasn't licked from a stone.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

The fact that the above groups all get a say in the matter, without any dissenting groups in the mix for balance, is absurd.

True but it's an established practice already.. You can see it with gender equality forums or initiatives where the vast majority of people or organisations involved are women, with male voices being a distinct minority. It's 'worked' for the UN, and the Irish government for decades already, so it's an acceptable way to approach issues. If you want a particular outcome, that is.

Kivaro

From the migrant NGO report above:

It’s understood the report recommends that any person who has been living in Direct Provision for more than two years be granted leave-to-remain for a period of five years – pending security vetting.

A payment similar to the Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) would also be made available as well as a weekly allowance under this new system. It’s understood Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien has been briefed on the report, which calls for a mix of solutions to accommodate protection applicants.

So let me ask you, the good people of boards, what will be the outcome if this is enacted in Ireland?
Africans and other non-EU nationals living in London, Paris, or Berlin, upon seeing these new major enticements in our extremely wealthy country (apparently) would find it difficult not to resist hopping on a plane and declaring "asylum" as soon as they arrive at Dublin airport. A number of high profile vocal African refugees that we see and hear on RTE have already taken the London route, so with Brexit looming, these numbers will substantially increase.

Geuze wrote: »

He was granted bail despite garda objections when he appeared in Dublin District Court.
Mr Shoky, an Egyptian asylum seeker with an address Abbot Court, Cualanor, Dún Laoghaire, is charged with six counts of brothel-keeping and eight of using false supporting documents for lease agreements on the properties."

Do you know who needs "asylum" in Ireland?
It is the people of Ireland who needs "asylum" from these chancers and those so-called powerful migrant NGOs who somehow are allowed to influence the very fabric and quality of life in our country.

bigpink

Deleted User wrote: »

True but it's an established practice already.. You can see it with gender equality forums or initiatives where the vast majority of people or organisations involved are women, with male voices being a distinct minority. It's 'worked' for the UN, and the Irish government for decades already, so it's an acceptable way to approach issues. If you want a particular outcome, that is.

Google all the Women in Business groups Board quagos in Ireland
Equal rights lets go but alot of professional women milking it deffo in third level

Mules

This will be a massive pull factor. The new announcement basically says 'come to Ireland, get a free house and social welfare.' The government are insane to be doing this. Why they are doing it is beyond me. Surely moaning NGOs and the Irish Times columnists can be ignored, as they are in other countries. This annoys me because I pay tax for public services and they are now going to collapse under the increase in population. Might as well stay at home and sit on my arse. If anyone else here is pissed off, email your td and government ministers. There's no point complaining about it, without complaining to the government.

statesaver

Mules wrote: »

This will be a massive pull factor. The new announcement basically says 'come to Ireland, get a free house and social welfare.' The government are insane to be doing this. Why they are doing it is beyond me. Surely moaning NGOs and the Irish Times columnists can be ignored, as they are in other countries. This annoys me because I pay tax for public services and they are now going to collapse under the increase in population. Might as well stay at home and sit on my arse. If anyone else here is pissed off, email your td and government ministers. There's no point complaining about it, without complaining to the government.

We're gonna need a bigger airport and another big, big, big magic money tree.

biko

In Sweden there have been cases where women working with the underage refugees have had sexual relations with them
and gone to jail over it (the ones that got caught).
https://www.expressen.se/gt/s-politikern-sexutnyttjade-flyktingpojke-pa-hvb-hem/ Social Democrat politician working with refugees has sex with 16yo boy.
Could there be a similar factor for the women in NGOs in Ireland?

MontgomeryClift

biko wrote: »

In Sweden there have been cases where women working with the underage refugees have had sexual relations with them
and gone to jail over it (the ones that got caught).
https://www.expressen.se/gt/s-politikern-sexutnyttjade-flyktingpojke-pa-hvb-hem/ Social Democrat politician working with refugees has sex with 16yo boy.
Could there be a similar factor for the women in NGOs in Ireland?

I've seen this theory being tossed around elsewhere online. If the people arriving and trying to claim asylum were mostly young Japanese women would the women of the NGOs be so eager to welcome them?

ThunbergsAreGo

TomTomTim wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-should-end-by-2023-and-be-replaced-with-state-owned-accommodation-centres-report-says-5238573-Oct2020/#comments

It's funny how these "expert" groups are nearly always from one side of the political isle.








The fact that the above groups all get a say in the matter, without any dissenting groups in the mix for balance, is absurd.

Anytime I hear MASI were involved I can instantly discount the findings

Mules

biko wrote: »

In Sweden there have been cases where women working with the underage refugees have had sexual relations with them
and gone to jail over it (the ones that got caught).
https://www.expressen.se/gt/s-politikern-sexutnyttjade-flyktingpojke-pa-hvb-hem/ Social Democrat politician working with refugees has sex with 16yo boy.
Could there be a similar factor for the women in NGOs in Ireland?

Nothing would surprise me. That woman in the article is some pervert.

Wibbs

biko wrote: »

In Sweden there have been cases where women working with the underage refugees have had sexual relations with them
and gone to jail over it (the ones that got caught).
https://www.expressen.se/gt/s-politikern-sexutnyttjade-flyktingpojke-pa-hvb-hem/ Social Democrat politician working with refugees has sex with 16yo boy.
Could there be a similar factor for the women in NGOs in Ireland?

Well fair play they got gaol time for it.

kildare lad

Mules wrote: »

This will be a massive pull factor. The new announcement basically says 'come to Ireland, get a free house and social welfare.' The government are insane to be doing this. Why they are doing it is beyond me. Surely moaning NGOs and the Irish Times columnists can be ignored, as they are in other countries. This annoys me because I pay tax for public services and they are now going to collapse under the increase in population. Might as well stay at home and sit on my arse. If anyone else here is pissed off, email your td and government ministers. There's no point complaining about it, without complaining to the government.

Wait till the next recession comes and we go back to Irish people losing their homes and emigrating . While all the chancers are safe on the knowledge that they're fine and have no fear of losing the house they live as the government are paying for it with our tax money.