What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Zookey123

Deleted User wrote: »

The funny part is the irony of you first dismissing the points made in the thread, and then, repeating back to us, many of the points I have repeatedly made throughout the thread. So, yeah.. definitely funny.

I assume this comment is here to score some points with the other regular posters on this thread? You are either being deliberately obtuse or willfully so.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh, you placed yourself in that corner when you set the limitation.. your own words.. and you're deflecting.

Limitation for what? This is what I meant by no real interest in a discussion.Deflecting what? I responded to everything you asked its like you guys have a script.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why the need for a citation? Educational qualifications in 3rd world nations are significantly lower in quality (due to lack of funding, lecturers/teachers being shared between majors, a contract approach for teachers, etc), and reliability (due to corruption, bribing of officials for better results, and the faking of degrees). I have previously on two different occasions, linked a variety of reports from Africa, and the M.East relating to this. And as someone who lectures in Asia, I can say, the same is reflected in many Asian countries which are poor, or emerging from poverty.

EMM, we were discussing skills and experience not a universities QS ranking. BTW even though most of the faking degrees scams are from countries like India a lot of the users are from first world countries.
As for skilled immigrants being important:

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you're feeling the need for a few rounds of wrangling.. Nah. Been there, done that, hoping for something better.

Honestly I could say the same. So would you be ok with multiculturalism if all the immigrants from these different ethnic and cultural background were skilled? is that the general consensus here because i didn't get that feeling.

Deleted User wrote: »

The numbers of hospital related employment (many of whom are on limited contracts and don't stay long-term) vs actual immigration is tiny. Once again, though, very few, if anyone, has any issue with people who come here with the skills/education to be properly employed, and not needing State supports.

Again this thread is about multiculturalism not people on state supports. Would you be okay with multiculturalism if only skilled workers came here? And were are you getting this info on temp contracts from?

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok... so, we're back to mixing immigrants into a broad selection so we can use migrants from comparable (western) nations to validate the overall benefits of multiculturalism? I thought you'd read many of the posts to the thread, and had an understanding of the objections of the posters here.
Talk about being disingenuous. Read the comment again I was responding to your question on mixing with other cultures and my own experience of that. Immigrants are from a vast array of countries (as you would expect) why are the french off limits in my response to mixing with other cultures?
Let's lay it out a little, since you seem to be willfully missing the primary points.

Oh am I?

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody has any issue with EU migrants who have the skills/education to be gainfully employed, without needing State supports. ie. people for whom there are jobs, and don't need welfare until jobs become available. Also.. jobs which can provide an income to live decently without governmental supplements.

Few people have any issues with people from non-EU countries who have adequate skills/education to be employed.. bla bla bla (same as above).

In terms of integration, most posters would like to see a greater emphasis on western or comparative cultures (Eastern Europe) as they tend to integrate more easily, due to shared values and history of social development. Whereas people from the M.East or Africa are suspect because there isn't a comparative culture, nor are the values shared, therefore integration is highly questionable. With Asians, integration isn't an issue since they tend to do very well for themselves professionally or in private business, and don't cause many problems.

And since minorities tend to congregate together to form groups, actual interaction between them and natives is rather limited, except for certain points of intersection such as work, sports, and schooling (kids).. but in each of those cases, again, the actual degree of interaction is extremely limited, especially where their own cultures/religions limit such interactions.

I could go on, but I suspect there's little point since your response so far has completely skipped over what posters have contributed and instead repeated the tired comments of past pro-multiculturalism posters..

I'm not trying to dismiss you, but you're not giving me much to work with here. You came on to the thread, calling it an echo chamber, and suggesting that you could present a viable alternative... Grand. Wonderful. However. you haven't. Instead, you've regurgitated many of the points previously discussed (and what's contributed to any kind of echo chamber). So... what is it you're going to argue about multiculturalism, bearing in mind, the points made by posters here?

I have discussed all of the above. EU migrants are still migrants with different cultures and thus multiculturalism. Vast majority of skilled health workers are non-eu with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds and are vital for this countries survival thus multiculturalism (but for some reason I cant mention them because you are okay with them being here even though they are of a different culture). I am getting a bit tired its late so I am sure I have made some typos. Anyways I dont dismiss your points I have provided counter arguments.

Zookey123

Bambi wrote: »

And its a good job you did, otherwise people might not have noticed the Nazi connotation of the phrase "Das Reich" :rolleyes:

Didn't know it was okay to be openly a Nazi here. Good contribution to the discussion by the way do you have anything of value to add? This is what I meant by a circle jerk of a thread btw stick to topic at hand.

Yellow_Fern

Zookey123 wrote: »

I have discussed all of the above. EU migrants are still migrants with different cultures and thus multiculturalism. Vast majority of skilled health workers are non-eu with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds and are vital for this countries survival thus multiculturalism (but for some reason I cant mention them because you are okay with them being here even though they are of a different culture). I am getting a bit tired its late so I am sure I have made some typos. Anyways I dont dismiss your points I have provided counter arguments.

having migrants working in health does not require multiculturalism. If the only immigrants here were nurses and doctors there would be vastly less opposition to immigration. Healthcare is very international sector in Ireland but most doctors are still Irish. I think especially few are from China although we do some ethnic Chinese doctors.

zom

Multiculturalism in Ireland - my culture is better than yours?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP_QpU1ooek
(Pocahontas and John Smith Talk #uncivilised)

biko

Speaking of multicultural enrichment, Lisa Smith's trial is set for 11 January 2022.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54150094

Kaybaykwah

Wibbs wrote: »

Very much on the surface though Kay. It's mostly flim flam, though much of the diversity politic is. First and foremost America is a White, European, Christian(mostly Protestant) nation squarely built on the idea of that. If you match up to that list or can pass for it you can blend in. If you don't then not nearly so much melting pot for you. Their oft quoted constitution states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" unless you were a slave, woman or native of course. Now things have most certainly much improved and much of it on the back of that statement carried to its logical conclusion(which IIRC Jefferson hoped for regarding slavery), but your average Black American is well down the pecking order compared to your average White centuries on.

Yes, lol.

Certainly, in the case of Jefferson, the great humanist, republican, architect, diplomat, statesman; there are many aspects that explain the inequities of the US of today. Of the many tens of thousand of black Jeffersons today, how many are descendants of his slaves and how many from his other family, founded with black wife concurrent with his white one?

Immigrants to the US for the most part want pretty badly to identify, and project their americanness. If they could claim some part.of the Pilgrim story as part of their own, they would throw their own back story out the window...

Zookey123

Zookey123 wrote: »

EMM, we were discussing skills and experience not a universities QS ranking. BTW even though most of the faking degrees scams are from countries like India a lot of the users are from first world countries.
As for skilled immigrants being important:

Honestly I could say the same. So would you be ok with multiculturalism if all the immigrants from these different ethnic and cultural background were skilled? is that the general consensus here because i didn't get that feeling.

No, it wouldn't, but it made sense to get the obvious out of the way, so that we could move on to the next part. Integration, and what happens with further generations thereafter. You made the case that you were familiar with the thread, and I assumed, wrongly, that we wouldn't need to rehash everything that had been done before.

Again this thread is about multiculturalism not people on state supports. Would you be okay with multiculturalism if only skilled workers came here? And were are you getting this info on temp contracts from?

The thread can be anything related to multiculturalism, and when a large percentage of a particular ethnic group ends up on welfare, or in poverty, then it has bearing on the debate.

I'd be fine with most skilled immigration that had employable skills.

Oh am I?

yup

I have discussed all of the above. EU migrants are still migrants with different cultures and thus multiculturalism. Vast majority of skilled health workers are non-eu with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds and are vital for this countries survival thus multiculturalism (but for some reason I cant mention them because you are okay with them being here even though they are of a different culture). I am getting a bit tired its late so I am sure I have made some typos. Anyways I dont dismiss your points I have provided counter arguments.

haha.. I don't see any counter arguments. I see deflection upon deflection. Guess I'm just jaded with repeating myself.

It's fine. I'm busy at the moment with exams, so I'll leave it to others to wrangle with you.

Wibbs

Zookey123 wrote: »

Yup.

Well. You could knock me down with a feather. From a wren. Fair play. Vanishingly few of those who wave the flag for multiculturalism would say that, or necessarily agree.

Japan is not as mono-cultural as you might think. I was there recently and it is booming with Europeans now. They have English everywhere even the local fruit vendors could speak basic English.

Japan is not particularly mono cultural culturally(try saying that quickly). It has always absorbed external ideas and bent them to their own, in between periods of isolation. However it imported those external ideas without importing people and that's still the case. They've only relaxed their criteria for moving there permanently in the last few years because of their age demographic problem and still it's significantly more difficult to move there than it is for Ireland. Highly skilled professional or nope, go away and it really helps if you have ethnic ties to the place and you have to prove fluency in the language. They've essentially refused to go along with refugee and asylum programmes and Japan's demographics of people who live there is 98% ethnically Japanese.

Quite a few actually since I work in health care. Many of our doctors, nurses, cleaning staff, IT are Muslim ladies.

I have spent some time abroad but most of my interactions with people of different cultures happens daily in the hospital as it does for most people working in healthcare.

Health care is an unusual case and not reflective of any wider melting pot. For a start the vast majority of those within it are highly trained and qualified professionals earning good wages with a "job for life". It sets a high bar for entry and it's preselecting for the best. These are not people coming in dinghies across the Mediterranean, or landing pregnant in Rosslare.

But let's forget that part: Would our health system be any better or worse if it were all pale Irish people, or all I dunno Bahrainis? Multiculturalism itself brings no actual advantages beyond the frisson of exoticism, or any advantages are tiny when set against the plain fact that the reason the Irish health service is more diverse than other sectors is down to pure economics. We can't interest, or hold onto enough of our own to fill those jobs. Just like the British NHS had a load of Irish and Caribbean nurses in the past. Economics. Those who do fill those jobs from overseas could be any colour, culture, or creed. It's immaterial.

But we get to a knottier and wider problem:

This only occurs because it is allowed to occur. If you introduce things like faith schools (Muslim only schools) and ethnic minority ghettos where each minority gets their own area they wont integrate because they are being allowed not to. I read a story recently about a young asian male (20s) in england born and bred who couldn't speak the language. That can't be allowed to happen. This creates social divides and sparks racial tension.

It does indeed and all that sounds great, however it again ignores human nature. It's less that it's allowed to occur, it's that it occurs naturally. And always has in pretty much every multicultural nation in history. Try finding an example where it doesn't or didn't across all of human history.

Migrant populations naturally and quite understandably tend to coalesce with themselves around cultural markers like places of worship, community centres and retail outlets, or simply down to economics(IE cheap housing will tend to attract the first waves of migrants trying to get a foothold and when you get a critical mass of one group, more of that group will see that area as attractive). Even with no ethnicity in play ghettoisation runs along economic grounds. The rich tend to live with the rich, the middle classes with the middle classes and so on. So if you have say a synagogue in area A, more Jewish people will buy housing in that area over time. Same goes for Catholic churches, Orthodox churches and Mosques(even places of work that favour one group over another). Local shops will have produce from the "old country" and more and more people from that culture will quite naturally drift towards that area. Even personal economics don't change it much. So you can have a poorer Chinatown and a wealthier one, or richer and poorer still hanging out in the same area. Ireland has had modern multiculturalism for only 20 years and this pattern is already in play.

In order to not allow it, you would have to actively go against human nature , legislate against it and essentially force people to ignore their human nature, never mind many of the rights we take for granted. No faith schools? You're butting up against freedom of religion. Never mind you can be sure only some religions would be targetted by this. No ghettoisation? You're restricting the movements of people along ethnic lines. I'm sorry Mr Aziz, I'm afraid you can't buy a house on the South Circular Road as we have records that show there are too many Muslims already in the area, so we're selling the house to Mrs O'Malley. By law. And you would have to legislate for this. Yeah... No. Hardly progressive or reflective of a free society and completely and utterly unworkable. The only way a society can avoid ghettoisation along ethnic lines is to have such small numbers that no critical mass of one group or another is reached. We're already past that point in urban Ireland, well Dublin.

ExMachina1000

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/immigrant-children-born-in-ireland-5276579-Nov2020/

The journal are also contributing to the overturning of referendum by publishing yet another piece of garbage "opinion piece" by some Labour nobody

Wibbs

zom wrote: »

Multiculturalism in Ireland - my culture is better than yours?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP_QpU1ooek
(Pocahontas and John Smith Talk #uncivilised)

Eh.... No. This is the usual cultural equivalence politic that has gained favour in the last couple of decades. IE all cultures are equal, though pale faced European culture isn't so much. Oh look how terrible we are.

It's far more complex than that, and/or a complete nonsense based on some post colonial "White guilt" framework with a large side order of patronising the "foreign" and the long standing European pull towards the fantasy of the "Nobel Savage" mixed together with a blind horror of making any sort of relativist judgement. That clip could sum it up.

Some cultures are on balance of negatives and positives quite simply better than others, which vary over time. If I were living in medieval Europe I'd be hotfooting it to Muslim Spain in short order as it was overall better than Christian Europe. Today Christian Europe is better than Muslim Jordan. If an alien were to land on Earth today, they would quite clearly see that the vast majority of the world are overwhelmingly going along European lines with local flavours. To reference your clip John Smith's world "won" and it's a better world for the most part.

Wibbs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/immigrant-children-born-in-ireland-5276579-Nov2020/

The journal are also contributing to the overturning of referendum by publishing yet another piece of garbage "opinion piece" by some Labour nobody

Well look who penned the article and where it found a home. Ivana Bacik and the Journal. The list of nonsense from that gilded denizen of the Seanad is a long one. Note how she twists the result numbers. She doesn't say it was soundly rejected by 80% of the Irish electorate. Where she gets a margin of 58% is beyond me, but no way in hell would she apply the same "maths" to the Repeal or Same sex marriage results, both of which passed by much smaller numbers, nor would she be pushing for legislative change to those results without going back to the people. She's be screeching from the Seanad over the inequity of it all and how it was subverting democracy. When it suits. Nor does she mention how no other EU nation has this law, or that Ireland is more open than most of them.

But this is standard operational political marketing ballsology. Like I noted in the thread hereabouts discussing this legislation:

Me. Previously. Elsewhere. wrote: »

But if the political PR is anything to go by in the past and there is enough support among the more mainstream parties, the usual MO will be the release of a load of appeals to feels sob stories featuring kids and with slanted polls over the next while. To get people used to the notion of a repeal of this and make them think it was their idea. No conspiracy required either. I've personally dealt with a fair few advertising and marketing agencies in my time, including ones who deal with politicians and parties. it's a tried and tested method and not just for politics, other business interests do similar. EG the motor industry will get stories out like "Older cars are deathtraps" to boost sales. Not sponsored by SIMI I swear. It works on the fact that people's memories are generally short, they generally don't think too deeply about stuff that doesn't directly affect them today and they respond more emotionally than logically most of the time and emotional memories are more dug in and rarely questioned.

Watch for more "opinion pieces" and soft polls coming to your media outlet soon.

Cordell

Where she gets a margin of 58% is beyond me

79-21
Why does she do that? Because 80% would mean she's speaking against the will of the vast majority of people.

Wibbs

Cordell wrote: »

79-21
Why does she do that? Because 80% would mean she's speaking against the will of the vast majority of people.

I can't maths(dyscalculia) so thanks for that C.

Can you do your stuff and work out by Senator Batsh1t's "maths" how the 66.4% to 33.6% of the repeal the 8th result would read?

Cordell

Repeal the 8th passed with a margin of 33% - this won't work for her but it may work for the other side

biko

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/immigrant-children-born-in-ireland-5276579-Nov2020/

The journal are also contributing to the overturning of referendum by publishing yet another piece of garbage "opinion piece" by some Labour nobody

Ivana Bacik thinks 80% of Irish are xenophobic because they voted to revoke Jus Soli 2004.
No wonder they call her "Labour's queen of political correctness".

Another politician try to bully her way by branding regular people racists.
I wonder where Ivana's loyalties lie. Not with the Irish anyway.
She fails the prime directive for a politician, the welfare of her constituents.

Wibbs

Cordell wrote: »

Repeal the 8th passed with a margin of 33% - this won't work for her but it may work for the other side

Yeah that really wouldn't suit and no way would she be calling for a revisit, or worse ignore it and undemocratically reverse it by way of legislation. Same for any vote she happened to agree with.

Yellow_Fern

It is not alright if the only people resisting this are the National Party, that will taint opposition immensely. The Freedom Party have decent people but also have a bad reputation.

Cordell

biko wrote: »

Ivana Bacik thinks 80% of Irish are xenophobic because they voted to revoke Jus Soli 2004.
No wonder they call her "Labour's queen of political correctness".

Another politician try to bully her way by branding regular people racists.
I wonder where Ivana's loyalties lie. Not with the Irish anyway.
She fails the prime directive for a politician, the welfare of her constituents.

She has a good history of misrepresenting her constituency, right from the very start:

Her term as president of Trinity College Dublin Students' Union ended prematurely when she resigned in 1990, after it was discovered that she had broken a mandate received from the Union membership, regarding voting for candidates at a Union of Students in Ireland conference.[7] Despite 13 TCD representatives being mandated to vote for one candidate, Martin Whelan, a former TCD SU president, it transpired that candidate received only 12 votes, Bacik's vote instead being given to the feminist former UCD SU officer, Karen Quinlivan. A controversy erupted in the Students' Union and a subsequent internal investigation led to Bacik's resignation

Wibbs

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

It is not alright if the only people resisting this are the National Party, that will taint opposition immensely. The Freedom Party have decent people but also have a bad reputation.

From what I gather the main parties are keeping some distance from this. Probably because they fear if they don't and this gets reversed it'll hit them in the polls. That a reversal of the wishes of and message from a clear democratic majority of the Irish people is even being considered for reversal is nothing short of scandalous.

biko

Once we leave the EU these politicians will soften their tone when they can't progress from national assembly to federal assembly.

A socialist politician have more in common with socialist politicians from other countries then they do with their own countrymen.

Wibbs

biko wrote: »

Once we leave the EU

A pipe dream up there with multiculturalism.

seenitall

Wibbs wrote: »

No ghettoisation? You're restricting the movements of people along ethnic lines. I'm sorry Mr Aziz, I'm afraid you can't buy a house on the South Circular Road as we have records that show there are too many Muslims already in the area, so we're selling the house to Mrs O'Malley. By law. And you would have to legislate for this. Yeah... No. Hardly progressive or reflective of a free society and completely and utterly unworkable. The only way a society can avoid ghettoisation along ethnic lines is to have such small numbers that no critical mass of one group or another is reached. We're already past that point in urban Ireland, well Dublin.

The Danes are trying it:

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=26414&LangID=E

The UN is not happy!

Wibbs

seenitall wrote: »

The Danes are trying it:

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=26414&LangID=E

The UN is not happy!

Indeed, but that's about the only way you can change the demographics of an area. By force essentially. Which doesn't sell well to viewers and least well to those people living there. Non migrant newbies coming in on the back of it will be about as welcome as a guinness fart in a spacesuit.

How do you stop it? By not letting too many non natives into a country in the first place. Especially those who look and act most differently to the local population. Them's the facts, uncomfortable as they may be, but history current and past shows these facts. Too late for the Danes and the French and the Germans and the Swedes and the British and we're on the slippery slope here in Ireland unless we act now to curtail any more non EU, non Western immigration. How many clear examples of how badly this nonsense goes do we need before we cry nope, go away with this empty busted flush of a social experiment.

Of course on the other hand we have the Labour party pushing hard to reverse the birthright law that was rejected by 80% of the Irish people in a democratic vote. The same law that gave us a large part of our existing ghettoisation problems.

biko

biko wrote: »

Once we leave the EU these politicians will soften their tone when they can't progress from national assembly to federal assembly.

A socialist politician have more in common with socialist politicians from other countries then they do with their own countrymen.

It would be completely insane for Ireland to leave the EU at this point in time. We've established decent connections with other European countries, along with a nice little reputation as being relatively neutral. And considering the aid/attention we've received from the EU, any leave taking would make us something of a pariah. After all, a lot of Ireland success is perceived as being due to membership within the EU. So.. we'd be alienated from a major market place. Economically, small countries fail unless they're tied somehow to a larger group.

Ireland doesn't have an established reputation for being a center of financial services, no manufacturing base of any note, nor do we provide any unique services that can't be replicated elsewhere.. Simply put, we need Europe, and by extension, the relative protection the EU provides us against the big boys like China or the US.

And IMHO, few "successful" have anything in common with their own countrymen because inevitably the favors/bribes they give out/receive, remove them from the reality that the rest of us live in.. it's all a grand game to them. Note, I did say successful politicians. the local ones tend to keep their connections alive, and stay relatively grounded.

seenitall

@ Wibbs (I thought I’d get away without quoting...) :
I think the bigger, unspoken picture around this is that such laws would make a country unappealing for the further ones to settle in. When the type of migrants that are targeted with this ‘ghetto package’ hear all about it from their relatives who have been evicted from the familiar surroundings and whose child has to spend 25 hours a week outside the home, it would soon sort one type from another (well, that’s the hope). If they are not amenable to integration, they will go to Germany or Sweden instead, as they don’t want the hassle. As per Tesco, Every little helps. It remains to be seen if the Danes manage to implement this under international pressure.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

How do you stop it? By not letting too many non natives into a country in the first place. Especially those who look and act most differently to the local population. Them's the facts, uncomfortable as they may be, but history current and past shows these facts. Too late for the Danes and the French and the Germans and the Swedes and the British and we're on the slippery slope here in Ireland unless we act now to curtail any more non EU, non Western immigration. How many clear examples of how badly this nonsense goes do we need before we cry nope, go away with this empty busted flush of a social experiment.
.

TBH With the exception of the UK, I do think European countries could turn themselves around and limit the damage of their current (and potentially future) migrant populations. The EU, as a bloc, is fully capable of standing up to the UN, since the reputation of the UN has fallen so far in recent years. Added to which, most European nations have their past to fall back upon, in having stricter positions towards naturalisation, and the rights given to migrants/foreigners. The only thing standing in the way of that is public opinion, and the covid recession combined with the violence/social unrest coming from migrant groups is likely to burn away most sympathy for them.

I'm hopeful we will see tighter laws coming into place to control immigration across all EU member states, and a shift in focus about the importance of integration as a measurable quantity, as opposed to a vague statement of intention. I know there's a lot of doomsayers believing that Europe has passed the no-return mark, but honestly, I don't see it. It wouldn't take much to get rid of a sizable percentage of current migrant populations based on their productivity and return on investment. ie, whether they're working, and earning enough to support themselves without governmental supports, linked with anyone with criminal charges made against them..

The UN will need to be faced down at some point because it's an organisation based on idealism rather than reality, and refuses to recognise the way the world has changed.. nevermind that it's consistently failed in it's primary mandate throughout it's whole existence.

So.. nope. I see a turning point for Europe, with France starting to publicly state their desire for harder measures, with Germany investigating their own failures, and the UK out of the picture. EE provides a range of support for harder measures to be implemented, with the Scandinavian countries turning in the same direction. No, I genuinely am feeling hopeful that we're starting to see a growing movement of countries, and political will (not far right) to deal with the problems we have. Ireland, of course, is separate to that, but we tend to follow where the big boys/girls go...

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah that really wouldn't suit and no way would she be calling for a revisit, or worse ignore it and undemocratically reverse it by way of legislation. Same for any vote she happened to agree with.

Good Friday Agreement was voted for a few years before. I wonder what she would say if someone suggested revisiting that.

kildare lad

biko wrote: »

Ivana Bacik thinks 80% of Irish are xenophobic because they voted to revoke Jus Soli 2004.
No wonder they call her "Labour's queen of political correctness".

Another politician try to bully her way by branding regular people racists.
I wonder where Ivana's loyalties lie. Not with the Irish anyway.
She fails the prime directive for a politician, the welfare of her constituents.

Labour seem to be going down the English route of forgetting about native vote and trying to attract the immigrant vote . They got 6 seats in the last election , and now they're bringing up an issue that was widely rejected by the Irish people in 2004 . Theres a lot more serious issues in Ireland at the moment and yet for some reason labour are pushing for this . Who ever there think tanks are , they'd need to get their heads examined .

AlekSmart

biko wrote: »

Ivana Bacik thinks 80% of Irish are xenophobic because they voted to revoke Jus Soli 2004.
No wonder they call her "Labour's queen of political correctness".

Another politician try to bully her way by branding regular people racists.
I wonder where Ivana's loyalties lie. Not with the Irish anyway.
She fails the prime directive for a politician, the welfare of her constituents.

Keep it simple.

Ms Bacik,like many of her era,is well grounded in the dark political arts,which will render her largely undebateable with on her latest,mind bogglingly crazy crusade.

However,by relentlessly dragging the issue back to that simple 80% majority figure,and refusing to allow her the wriggle room to dissemble and evade that Bleedin Obvious problem (For HER) then her lack of authority,moral and otherwise may well be brought into the open.

She is,after all,a member of Seanad Eireann,now seemingly engaged in actively attempting to thwart the result of a legally constituted referendum...one response might well be WT actual F

We really do appear to be heading into CrazyCatLady territory ?

Arthur Daley

It's not what the fake left are up to here that is the news. These loonies will have been consistent about their open borders policies while demanding ever increasing government spending and higher taxes. Rich Boy Barrett and Bacik are pushing for the pipe dreams they would have wished for 20 years ago.

No the real news is the complete collapse of any opposition or counter balance to their lunacy. They are pushing at an open door. That is the alarming change.