What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

I wonder would FF (or even a putsch if MM won't) gamble on this, come out swinging as a more conservative option on immigration. Certainly opposite the left/green open borders/"come hither ye all"


Theyve nothing else to make themselves relevant anymore. It did Peter Casey wonders.

Cordell

reputation of the UN has fallen

Apparently, On 1 April 2020, China joined the United Nations Human Rights Council.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council#China

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

It's not what the fake left are up to here that is the news. These loonies will have been consistent about their open borders policies while demanding ever increasing government spending and higher taxes. Rich Boy Barrett and Bacik are pushing for the pipe dreams they would have wished for 20 years ago.

No the real news is the complete collapse of any opposition or counter balance to their lunacy. They are pushing at an open door. That is the alarming change.

When you consider Coveney of Fine Gael's view of what Ireland should look like in 2040. Hard to see much opposition to Bacik's wishes from any Party.

Rolo2010

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

I wonder would FF (or even a putsch if MM won't) gamble on this, come out swinging as a more conservative option on immigration. Certainly opposite the left/green open borders/"come hither ye all"


Theyve nothing else to make themselves relevant anymore. It did Peter Casey wonders.

They should. SF won't admit it but a lot of their voters are conservative on this issue.

Rolo2010

Rolo2010 wrote: »

They should. SF won't admit it but a lot of their voters are conservative on this issue.

I reckon its a strong card in their hand- no one else seems interested in playing it except the INP, and they're a bit too outré for most

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Apparently, On 1 April 2020, China joined the United Nations Human Rights Council.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council#China

Nope.. I can think of a variety of points through the last century that have far greater impact.

"The regime carried out genocide between 1975-1979, killing some two million people, nearly 25 percent of the country.

The Vietnamese intervention ended genocide by the Khmer Rouge regime. The United Nations recognised the Khmer Rouge regime, while ignoring concerns of human rights violations."

OR

"[I]UN Resolution 1483 attempted to legitimise the invasion that was carried out under the false assertion by the US and the UK that the Saddam regime was in possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction."[/I]

https://www.trtworld.com/americas/twelve-times-the-un-has-failed-the-world-21666

As for China being on the council, there's another 14? members involved.... it's not like they've taken control over all human rights activities. In any case, it's a continuance of politics, and frankly, most times China are indifferent to human rights... a lot like the US and others. TBH human rights only becomes important when they stand to gain from promoting it.

"The General Assembly elected the following 15 members:

Bolivia, China, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, France, Gabon, Malawi, Mexico, Nepal, Pakistan,
Russian Federation, Senegal, Ukraine, United Kingdom and Uzbekistan.

All 15 members will serve three-year terms beginning on 1 January 2021."

err...

TomTomTim

Rolo2010 wrote: »

They should. SF won't admit it but a lot of their voters are conservative on this issue.

I'm not sure why in the world anyone conservative minded on anything would vote for SF.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'm not sure why in the world anyone conservative minded on anything would vote for SF.

Because they've seen what the other parties have done (repeatedly) and they're willing to be convinced to belief that SF are "different". Desperation can be a rather powerful motivator... along with despair.

Personally, I can't stand SF and their arguments can't hold up to much scrutiny.. but let's be fair here, and remember what the other parties are like.. I laugh when people rant about American politics and the voting in of Trump. We're not far off being the same as them. Stuck with a political system that presents very limited and bad choices.

Cordell

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope.. I can think of a variety of points through the last century that have far greater impact.

Of course, I was just pointing out the joke that UN HRC has become.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Of course, I was just pointing out the joke that UN HRC has become.

Yeah, but you're making it sound like they had resounding success previously, or presented themselves properly before, and the addition of China is a sign of them declining. It's highly debatable whether they've ever experienced any significant measure of success, that wasn't already being implemented by the target nation themselves... and have, sometimes, made situations worse than before. It's an organisation that loves to meddle..

All the UN organs or organisations have been inefficient, and often, worse than inept in how they handled their various self-imposed responsibilities. I never particularly liked the UN because they are a watchdog with no clear responsibility (or accountability).. and the range of double standards applied depending on geographical location, power, wealth, is staggering.

Cordell

No, I never said any of that.
In fairness, when you put together a worldwide "human rights" council and you expect to have a western view you're setting yourself up for failure. The western civilized world is a minority.

Aleece2020

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stuck with a political system that presents very limited and bad choices.

Will you also be joining our new party, klaz?

Aleece2020

Aleece2020 wrote: »

Will you also be joining our new party, klaz?

You'll have my vote...

I doubt you'd really want me speaking publicly on behalf of any party.. I'm a little too impulsive, direct and honest. Not the right attitude towards generating public support.

Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

Because they've seen what the other parties have done (repeatedly) and they're willing to be convinced to belief that SF are "different". Desperation can be a rather powerful motivator... along with despair.

This is the thing, that explains a lot of their votes I think. The hope that they will be different, but I wouldn't hold my breath. They're totally in lockstep with the other main parties in this area. Despite their base not being so.

Deleted User wrote: »

but let's be fair here, and remember what the other parties are like.. I laugh when people rant about American politics and the voting in of Trump. We're not far off being the same as them. Stuck with a political system that presents very limited and bad choices.

You're right here, there's very little choice on issues like this, and any differences are little more than window dressing.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll have my vote...

I doubt you'd really want me speaking publicly on behalf of any party.. I'm a little too impulsive, direct and honest. Not the right attitude towards generating public support.

But maybe thats exactly what is needed........we have had mainly bullsh*t artists running political partys since the foundation of the state...

Kivaro

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

SF elected representives don't respnd to any emails around immegration/asylum issues. They just ignore them and hope they go away.

Sinn Fein's current policy is that no asylum seeker should ever be deported from Ireland. So for the asylum seekers who have already committed murder and rapes in Ireland, Sinn Fein do not want these men deported.

Prior to this current policy (2009), Sinn Fein wanted all asylum seekers to be accepted into Ireland, whether it was for political or economical reasons. This policy was approved unanimously at their Ard Fheis.

This is the height of insanity that we are dealing with when discussing Sinn Fein and asylum seekers. This stance would be antithesis of what the usual supporter of Sinn Fein would expect from their party. Sinn Fein has a de facto open door policy when it comes to asylum seekers and economic migrants. This is one major reason why they will not sweep out the current political parties in government at the next election, which is something that many of us want i.e. the current coalition gone, but not by any cost (of open borders).

Strumms

biko wrote: »

Ivana Bacik thinks 80% of Irish are xenophobic because they voted to revoke Jus Soli 2004.
No wonder they call her "Labour's queen of political correctness".

Another politician try to bully her way by branding regular people racists.
I wonder where Ivana's loyalties lie. Not with the Irish anyway.
She fails the prime directive for a politician, the welfare of her constituents.

Exactly, welfare of the constituents. ie. Those who sought to elect her, pay her wages and more besides..

Their needs need to come first. Our needs. We are paying her and the rest, electing them to ensure we DO come first. So when the money isn’t there for housing, rehabilitation treatments, etc... she is happy to stand up for the wellbeing, safety and health of non taxpayers FIRST..and those who exist here as Irish, second.

Sure next, I’ll be told as I live on a bus route, I should sell my car, and donate the 12,000 or whatever it’s worth to varying charities such as the immigrant council of Ireland ? She’s a fûcking useless treacherous article.

Sir Oxman

Strumms wrote: »

Exactly, welfare of the constituents. ie. Those who sought to elect her, pay her wages and more besides..

Their needs need to come first. Our needs. We are paying her and the rest, electing them to ensure we DO come first. So when the money isn’t there for housing, rehabilitation treatments, etc... she is happy to stand up for the wellbeing, safety and health of non taxpayers FIRST..and those who exist here as Irish, second.

Sure next, I’ll be told as I live on a bus route, I should sell my car, and donate the 12,000 or whatever it’s worth to varying charities such as the immigrant council of Ireland ? She’s a fûcking useless treacherous article.

It has to be remebered that what Bacik and others like her particularly in the Seanad are doing is representing their constituents - a few thousand selected citizens - in her case the University of Dublin (Trinity).
She has utterly failed in her numerous attempts at being elected by the great unwashed despite being parachuted into Comrade Gilmore's Dun Laoire constituency in 2011 (after failing to even be nominated by her own Labour colleagues in Dublin SE) missing that open goal during what was Labour's greatest ever electoral victory.

It's quite laughable really if it wasn't so serious.

jmreire

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'm not sure why in the world anyone conservative minded on anything would vote for SF.

Well in the last GE, it was not so much that the electorate turned nearly 100% in favour of Sinn Fein, but turned nearly 100% against FF/ FG. Had Sinn Fein fielded more candidates, then its quite possible that we would have had a Sinn Fein Government now. As what the next GE will bring.......now thats the question. Casey clearly tapped into a sentiment, and that sentiment is still out there.

Strumms

https://www.dfa.ie/news-and-media/press-releases/press-release-archive/2020/october/ministers-welcome-increased-allocation-for-overseas-aid.ph

We increase our overseas aid spending yet this header Bacik wants more...

In addition in 2020 alone, the cost of providing direct provision cost the state, ie. US, you and me... 129 million. That’s JUST direct provision. Forget the additional costs... medical treatments, repatriation, transport, clothing...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/direct-provision-accommodation-costs-increased-66-last-year-1.4196786

We can’t just print money in the Sandyford Mint and solve all the fûcking problems in the world, or on our doorstep....

Irish taxpayers, citizens deserve the best of medical treatments, care, rehabilitation services, housing etc... best of ALL services.... that IS being denied to us the people of this state, taxpayers because we have a multi million bill, to facilitate, accommodate, feed, transport, secure the welfare and wellbeing of thousands of people who have arrived here in the main, simply to gain a better quality of life..

You arrive in the US ? You say.... “hey I’m here as things is tough at home, give me money, a home and freedom...?”... they’ll give you a plane ticket.

I can only find the numbers for 2019 but approximately 47.99% of applications are rejected here.

Almost half the people arriving here, do not qualify, are here for ‘quality of life’ or ‘economic’ reasons or come here on a ‘whim’ and couldn’t care a jot, as to the cost to us.

Money that can be spent on healthcare, providing schools and sports clubs with all weather pitches to provide health and recreation to our tax paying citizens but is instead spent on processing applications, facilitating accommodation security, entertainment , healthcare, etc.... and or returning home on flights...

Wibbs

Strumms wrote: »

[
I can only find the numbers for 2019 but approximately 47.99% of applications are rejected here.

For those showing up from places like Georgia and Nigeria it's closer to 100%. For a nice change Ireland has actually made it harder in general for chancers. Pity we didn't do this back in the 90's, but a minority of muppets in Labour want to increase our uptake.

Randy Archer

jmreire wrote: »

Well in the last GE, it was not so much that the electorate turned nearly 100% in favour of Sinn Fein, but turned nearly 100% against FF/ FG. Had Sinn Fein fielded more candidates, then its quite possible that we would have had a Sinn Fein Government now. As what the next GE will bring.......now thats the question. Casey clearly tapped into a sentiment, and that sentiment is still out there.

There’s little evidence for that . SF got a HAMMERING at the local elections of 2019. The were ceremoniously kicked out of Dublin City Hall (the main party during the housing crisis and home sweet home protests) . They lost, hand over fist, many of their more acceptable faces due to claims of bullying and kangaroo court discipline within the party

In the election of 2016 , SF were on solid ground to believe that they would win more seats. In Donegal, most people accepted that their two seats were safe - both lads were well liked and respected across the county and country and both lads were at the other end of the County. What did they do ? Ran 3 lads, in a county that always returns either a FG or FF man or both and Pringle . What happened ? SF inexplicably lost a seat !!!

They ran a lot of candidates in 2016 . Add the disaster of the Presidential election which no one wanted, that was a lot of party funds spent

There was little to no reason for SF or the public to expect the result they got in 2020

While the vote in Meehole , McGrath and a Coveney backyard in Cork was exceptional as all three would be party Leader and Taoiseach material , some results elsewhere were rather flukey

eg Roscommon - Galway - nothing against the SF girl but FF HQ blew a safe seat by insisting on daddy’s girl Orla Leyden Jumping onto the ticket , last minute and thus splitting the FF vote and a safe enough seat .

Longford Westmeath was an odd situation - failure to return a TD from Athlone (Despite some Athlone based lads potentially have Longford border a natural vote getter too) and A SF Mullingar based blown in Who royally got hammered at the local elections

A few months prior taking a seat for SF, a first since O’Bradaigh in 1957 . Doubt that will happen so easily at the next election !

Randy Archer

Wibbs wrote: »

For those showing up from places like Georgia and Nigeria it's closer to 100%. For a nice change Ireland has actually made it harder in general for chancers. Pity we didn't do this back in the 90's, but a minority of muppets in Labour want to increase our uptake.

The facts and figures can be found on the websites of the International Protection Office and International Protection Appeals Tribunal And the sites of their predecessors ORAC and RAT. These annual reports go as far back as 2000 !! Easily assessable and free to view.

Moreover, the EU have their own websites dealing with asylum across the Union ,and websites such as AIDA .

All of these sites set out in clear fashion the numbers who applied, where they came from, the numbers rejected (How many were inadmissible and unfounded ) and granted And the numbers who withdrew their cases . Also includes gender and nationality

One of the major reason for Ireland’s apparent lower asylum approval rates compared to Sweden et all is due to where the asylum seekers are from. !

It’s something that the open border mob dishonestly failed to look at and you had a lot of useful idiots in the Media eg Irish Times , commenting on matters that they didn’t bother to research on

In the past 20 years, our main asylum seekers came from Georgia (a recent trend since 2008) , Albania (recent trend) Pakistan (a recent trend since 2008 and almost exclusively men) Nigeria (especially prior to 2007, not as many now a days ) and Russia and Romania pre 2007 . We also use to get A lot OF Chinese students claiming asylum .

We got a handful Iraqis, Kurds and Iranians (even before The buck in the trend circa 1996) and Afghans and a handful of Syrians in that 20 year span but nothing like other EU nations. For some reason (cough, our citizenship laws) we got people from “safe” countries trying their luck

Many of these nations Mentioned above have via EU and Irish law been designated as “safe countries” . Of course, every case is individual and it’s always possible that some people from these safe countries have a genuine case ....

When you look At their results across Europe, surprise surprise mOST of them get rejected just like in Ireland

Don’t for one second be fooled to think that the smugglers weren’t aware of the economic boom since 1997 and Ireland’s generous citizenship laws . Funny how we all of a sudden became a popular asylum destination .

Countries like Sweden got way more Iraqis and Afghans and Syrians (people with legitimate cases) Hence while they look good . You think Georgians , Nigerians and Pakistani’s were getting success over there ? Hell no.

Ireland and Belgium were the last two EU countries as of 2004 , to have that crazy citizenship laws as of birth . Belgium hung on until 2010 before a crazy EU case raised eyes Brows

Reality from the reports, which Madam know it all Bacik Suggests otherwise, shows that between 2000-2005 people came from Safe nations with “cock n bull stories” (there’s a plethora of Judicial Review High Court transcripts online that spell out the common claims about FGM as an adult (when it’s done as a child) ju ju magic etc ) and how many simply withdrew their cases the moment they gave birth to a child and got residency on that basis . Screams abuse . These cases were rejected in other EU countries too at the time .

The Superior Courts have heard the figures from the State who applied for leave to remain on basis of IBC via withdrawal of their asylum cases, they have heard the numbers who applied for IBC 2005 (18,000 individual , 17,300 granted residency) (see the Dimbo n Bode cases of 2007/2008)

The Rosanna Flynn’s (Remember her ?) and Bacik of these worlds can not and could not counter argue The blatantly obvious fact that the asylum process was used and abused by economic migrants because they would never have got entry visas or work permits (which were not hard to get before 2004) .

Asylum is a process for people who have or will have a genuine fear of persecution in their country of origin. It is not and should not be a vehicle to get residency via the back door when you can’t and don’t get residency by other lawful means

Christ the EU Commission was hassling McDowell to get rid of our pre 2004 citizenship laws in the aftermath of a ECJ case of Chen v U.K. (look it up) . Suppose the commission were racists too eh ?

While the new Irish citizen laws didn’t completely remove the fake asylum cases after 2005, there can be no doubt that between 2005-2007 (while the country was still in a boom) the Nigerian brigade didn’t come over in the numbers that they use to. There was still a steady flow of asylum seekers during the bad days of 2008-2012 but there can be no doubt that the change of our citizenship laws discouraged the economic migrant from coming over heavily pregnant like they use to (this can’t be denied as the hospital stats were produced by the State before the Superior Courts during the legal challenges of 2003-2007)

Randy Archer

Rolo2010 wrote: »

They should. SF won't admit it but a lot of their voters are conservative on this issue.

Bingo ! Typical a Shinner voter , especially the northern mobs aren’t entirely as socialist(Least those who have a business or in decent jobs) or liberal (Quite Catholic in some parts, but no different to many typical Ff rural farmer ) as their elected representatives like to portray.

suicide_circus

Said it before and will say it again.

You can have a functioning generous welfare state OR you can have an open door immigration policy. You cannot have both. This is what makes Labour and SF's position on this stuff even more insane coming from a left wing perspective.

Geuze

Randy Archer wrote: »

The Superior Courts have heard the figures from the State who applied for leave to remain on basis of IBC via withdrawal of their asylum cases, they have heard the numbers who applied for IBC 2005 (18,000 individual , 17,300 granted residency) (see the Dimbo n Bode cases of 2007/2008)

About the IBC and leave to remain.............

I see African children in secondary school and college, aged 15-20.

Other than being the children of doctors with work visas to work here, I am curious as to how they are here?

I'm guessing they are foreign-born or Irish-born children of parents who were bogus AS during 1995-2005?

Is that a reasonable guess?

Strumms

Wibbs wrote: »

For those showing up from places like Georgia and Nigeria it's closer to 100%. For a nice change Ireland has actually made it harder in general for chancers. Pity we didn't do this back in the 90's, but a minority of muppets in Labour want to increase our uptake.

That’s because Labour here are no more then champagne socialists. They don’t have to live or experience being denied medical care, sit on a housing list for x years and be denied funding in the community for whatever project that can and would improve the fairness and quality of life of taxpayers and citizens. IT JUST DOESN'T AFFECT THEM.

They just seem to be stuck on the psycho crazy mantra where they are of this weird assed OBSESSION with inviting everyone and anyone to our shores, a magic money tree seems to be in their mind to fund it. If a taxpayer for 20 years looses his job here, I’d rather see MORE of a hand being offered there to ‘them’.

WE end up paying for it, through taxes, through denial of services. The stats of people who have arrived here, the millions / billions spent to facilitate them... taxpayers here on the other hand... looking for a bed in the NRH ? Forget it.

Hospitals are now self fundraising, staff in the own time trying to fundraiser..

This is seriously enlightening...

https://www.rehab.ie/news-and-stories/press-releases/underfunding-and-cost-of-regulation/

How the fûck is this situation allowed to prevail? And funding on a grand scale provided to the asylum system ? Without question...

I’m now of the mind that we look after people here, Irish taxpayers, first and foremost. If awful things are happening elsewhere on this planet...? we are not causing the problems... we don’t influence, impact or induce civil war, tyranny, murder, drought, famine, corrupt leadership or terrorism, ANYWHERE on this planet....

So why are we expected to bail out, give a dig out, to people outside the state, to come here and live here... when the demands and needs of our own people are not being met ? Our own taxpayers ?

Fûck Bacik, Paul Murphy and the rest of them. Irish resources for Irish people.... health / rehabilitation, Gardai, transport - more metro, more trains, buses, infrastructure and personal supports, roads,

If we buy a ticket on an Aer Lingus flight to Madrid, We get to the airport to check in...to be told... “ sorry sir, we’ve given your seat to another person , they needed it and were not in a position to pay, they needed it more “ how do we feel ? Ripped fûcking off, we ARE being ripped off... and we have elected representatives like Bacik and Murphy.... advocating.. ‘long may it continue’. Vote them out, get them out.

Gervais08

Geuze wrote: »

About the IBC and leave to remain.............

I see African children in secondary school and college, aged 15-20.

Other than being the children of doctors with work visas to work here, I am curious as to how they are here?

I'm guessing they are foreign-born or Irish-born children of parents who were bogus AS during 1995-2005?

Is that a reasonable guess?

More than reasonable, I’d say bang on the money!!

ExMachina1000

Sean Moncrief had that Ivanna person on his show earlier. I missed the interview but caught the part where he read out comments sent in. Apparently according to many listeners only racists voted for it and some poll found that 71% of people are now in favour of turning it over.

Kivaro

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Sean Moncrief had that Ivanna person on his show earlier. I missed the interview but caught the part where he read out comments sent in. Apparently according to many listeners only racists voted for it and some poll found that 71% of people are now in favour of turning it over.

Trying to think about Labour's motive for going against the will of the vast majority of the population who opposed anchor babies ......
Labour, as a party, are done, and will never amount to much in the future due to their constant misdeeds over the years. If only they stuck with the workers and their votes, but instead they decided that the the social welfare vote was more important, but that vote is a very crowded market. Between that and the Irish water saga, the indigenous have been burned by Labour and will not forget that burn. Most of my family have always voted for Labour but never again. Maybe Labour will now try to garner the non-Irish vote in Ireland, which is why they are focusing on that demographic now.

The irony is that the more that Ireland turns to a defacto open border type system of inward migration, the more that the natives will lose control over our country. Labour and Sinn Fein and many "progressives" in Fine Gael (e.g. Simon Conveney) want this to happen for different reasons, which is economical and cultural suicide.