What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Gervais08

bubblypop wrote: »

Being homosexual is incompatible with Roman Catholic beliefs, yet plenty are.

Yes because an average priest will “love the sinner and hate the sin”. Even Pope Francis has said he is not against same sex civil marriages

Yet the average imam would encourage the murder of gay men and women. Usually off a roof.

Sure there are feminist Muslim women - but in their own heads only.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Being homosexual is incompatible with Roman Catholic beliefs, yet plenty are.

Back to this again? The Roman Catholic Church hasn't been able to enforce it's will (when it actually agreed on it) since before I was born. There hasn't been a strong reaction to homosexuality in Europe due to Catholic beliefs in a long time. It just doesn't have the influence anymore.

Islam... on the other hand, does. It's customs and beliefs are enforced. You do recognise the difference there?

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Back to this again? The Roman Catholic Church hasn't been able to enforce it's will (when it actually agreed on it) since before I was born. There hasn't been a strong reaction to homosexuality in Europe due to Catholic beliefs in a long time. It just doesn't have the influence anymore.

Islam... on the other hand, does. It's customs and beliefs are enforced. You do recognise the difference there?

A cousin left the priesthood and the only negative reaction was his aunt never spoke to him for three months.

Imagine even saying you were thinking of leaving Islam ? Slightly worse reaction there!!!

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

Sure there are feminist Muslim women - but in their own heads only.

Not really.. sorry... but if you look at both Malaysia, and Indonesia, both of which are Muslim countries, and both of which, became quite prosperous with very enlightened policies towards women's rights.. (at least until the women decided and campaigned for more traditional practices to be brought back in).

There will be feminist Muslim women... it just won't be western feminism. It'll be limited to the objectives of what these women want and feel that they can achieve.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Being homosexual is incompatible with Roman Catholic beliefs, yet plenty are.

Its a bit more nuanced that that, and I suspect you know it.

There is nothing incompatible with a LGB person believing in RC beliefs. Its how that person is regarded by the Church, and whether a LGB person feels part of the Church. Theyre not cast out!

biko

Iranian feminists are imprisoned for decades for fighting Islam and their government for forcing them to wear headscarves.
That is feminism and bravery.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not really.. sorry... but if you look at both Malaysia, and Indonesia, both of which are Muslim countries, and both of which, became quite prosperous with very enlightened policies towards women's rights.. (at least until the women decided and campaigned for more traditional practices to be brought back in).

There will be feminist Muslim women... it just won't be western feminism. It'll be limited to the objectives of what these women want and feel that they can achieve.

A very fair point, accepted Klaz.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What is feminism though? Like, I've been watching the development of feminism all my life, and it's not one single form. We have, what, five waves at this stage?

When people say 'you don't understand feminism', I suspect they have a rather shallow understanding of what feminism is. It's got layers of agendas, and objectives. Comparing first wave feminism with fifth wave feminism is like comparing a Birthday cake with a Nuclear device.

I'm well aware thank you of the different waves of feminism. I suspect the poster I replied to is not.

biko

biko wrote: »

Iranian feminists are imprisoned for decades for fighting Islam and their government for forcing them to wear headscarves.
That is feminism and bravery.

Or

"In reality, women in ISIS hold a variety of roles, from assisting in the captivity of other women belonging to religious minorities, to controlling a local police brigade aimed at enforcing adherence to ISIS’ harsh interpretation of Shariah law. Our collective understanding of women’s participation in insurgent violence has been compromised by positive security bias, or the notion that women are less capable of violence in conflict than men, as well as a lack of gendered analysis through which we understand insurgencies. Nowhere is this failure more profound than the designation of women ISIS members as ‘jihadi brides.’"

This could also be considered Islamic feminism...

Gervais08

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm well aware thank you of the different waves of feminism. I suspect the poster I replied to is not.

Ah the old “attack the poster” - that says you’ve the strong argument there so.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Back to this again? The Roman Catholic Church hasn't been able to enforce it's will (when it actually agreed on it) since before I was born. There hasn't been a strong reaction to homosexuality in Europe due to Catholic beliefs in a long time. It just doesn't have the influence anymore.

Islam... on the other hand, does. It's customs and beliefs are enforced. You do recognise the difference there?

I recognise that there are plenty of Muslims in the world who practise a more a la carte form of their religion.
Much the same as other religions.
I have attended pride parades in Muslim countries, including Muslim lgbtq people.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

Ah the old “attack the poster” - that says you’ve the strong argument there so.

He actually said 'maybe not'
Don't know how you think I attacked anyone......

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I recognise that there are plenty of Muslims in the world who practise a more a la carte form of their religion.
Much the same as other religions.
I have attended pride parades in Muslim countries, including Muslim lgbtq people.

How nice for you.

"In Iran today, lavat (sodomy) is a capital offence and people are frequently executed for it. In Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and Mauritania, sodomy is also punishable by death – though no executions have been reported for at least a decade.

Among other Arab countries, the penalty in Algeria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia and Syria is imprisonment – up to 10 years in the case of Bahrain. In those that have no specific law against homosexuality, gay people may still be prosecuted under other laws. In Egypt, for example, an old law against “debauchery” is often used."

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How nice for you.

"In Iran today, lavat (sodomy) is a capital offence and people are frequently executed for it. In Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and Mauritania, sodomy is also punishable by death – though no executions have been reported for at least a decade.

Among other Arab countries, the penalty in Algeria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia and Syria is imprisonment – up to 10 years in the case of Bahrain. In those that have no specific law against homosexuality, gay people may still be prosecuted under other laws. In Egypt, for example, an old law against “debauchery” is often used."

Thank you.
There are over 70 countries in the world where it is illegal to be homosexual.
That's a lot of gay people living in fear with their human rights infringed.

V8 Interceptor

bubblypop wrote: »

.
I have attended pride parades in Muslim countries, including Muslim lgbtq people.

:eek::eek::eek:

jmreire

Gervais08 wrote: »

A cousin left the priesthood and the only negative reaction was his aunt never spoke to him for three months.

Imagine even saying you were thinking of leaving Islam ? Slightly worse reaction there!!!

In the more extreme Islamic Countries,3 mths would be a very long time to survive after becoming an "Unbeliever", or worse still a Christian.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Or

"In reality, women in ISIS hold a variety of roles, from assisting in the captivity of other women belonging to religious minorities, to controlling a local police brigade aimed at enforcing adherence to ISIS’ harsh interpretation of Shariah law. Our collective understanding of women’s participation in insurgent violence has been compromised by positive security bias, or the notion that women are less capable of violence in conflict than men, as well as a lack of gendered analysis through which we understand insurgencies. Nowhere is this failure more profound than the designation of women ISIS members as ‘jihadi brides.’"

This could also be considered Islamic feminism...

In the isis prison in Al-Hawl in Syria, the women isis members are considered more dangerous than the men. hey are completely ruthless and unforgiving. In the past, they have killed not only the security guards, but fellow isis captives, men and women who they consider to be back sliding in their faith. Its so bad there that they have to be kept completely segregated from the general prison population, and no one enters their compound unless they are heavily armed and in force. This was a lesson the Guards learned early on after several of them were attacked with anything the women could get their hands on scissors, kitchen knives or forks, even stones. They are not worried about dying either, actually death and martyrdom are welcomed by them.

V8 Interceptor

jmreire wrote: »

They are not worried about dying either, actually death and martyrdom are welcomed by them.

The lads get 30 virgins, what do they get?

jmreire

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

The lads get 30 virgins, what do they get?

Excerpt from Quran/ Hadith's:
The main reason for the Houris is because in most cases men pursue women and not vice versa. As for women who are married in this life, Allah Almighty will grant them some kind of beauty with which they will feel that they are better than the Houris and so they will not love anyone other than their own husbands nor will they feel jealous of the Houris.
If women are unmarried during worldly life, Allah will marry them to the unmarried believers in paradise, or he may compensate them by making them feel content with their position.

Now you have it. But all will live in beautiful houses , with servants and the best of heavenly food and drink. ( yes, wine too. )

V8 Interceptor

And so-called progressives are delighted to have this stuff proliferate in Ireland?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Thank you.
There are over 70 countries in the world where it is illegal to be homosexual.
That's a lot of gay people living in fear with their human rights infringed.

Which has little relevance to the topic in hand, except that Islam, is one of the main reasons behind that fear manifesting. Oh, it exists elsewhere, but in the majority of countries where that fear exists, the culture of the country was shaped by Islam.

Do you remember why you brought up the issue with homosexuality? A comparison. And yet, in the vast majority of catholic nations, homosexuals aren't living in fear due to their sexual orientation.

The primary religion, over time, shapes how culture evolves. Now, western nations have moved away from having religion shape our culture (in any strong manner), but the same can't be said for Islamic countries.

V8 Interceptor

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

The lads get 30 virgins, what do they get?

They get 30 virgins too. Apparently there are 30 male and 30 female virgins when you die. The 30 male virgins serve non-alcoholic beverages.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Which has little relevance to the topic in hand, except that Islam, is one of the main reasons behind that fear manifesting. Oh, it exists elsewhere, but in the majority of countries where that fear exists, the culture of the country was shaped by Islam.

Do you remember why you brought up the issue with homosexuality? A comparison. And yet, in the vast majority of catholic nations, homosexuals aren't living in fear due to their sexual orientation.

The primary religion, over time, shapes how culture evolves. Now, western nations have moved away from having religion shape our culture (in any strong manner), but the same can't be said for Islamic countries.

And thats the fundamental problem, it cannot be changed except by God. And after that, its all a question in interpretation of the Quran and the Hadiths, Peace,War, Love, Hate...they are all in it, depending on what you want.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now, western nations have moved away from having religion shape our culture (in any strong manner), but the same can't be said for Islamic countries.

Not all of them. And not all muslims.
But you know that of course

V8 Interceptor

bubblypop wrote: »

Not all of them. And not all muslims. But you know that of course

Not all Islamic countries are shaped by Islam?

Gervais08

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Not all Islamic countries are shaped by Islam?

I imagine that’ll come as a huge shock to them!

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Not all of them. And not all muslims.
But you know that of course

Not all of them? Well, yes, some Islamic nations have sought to become more westernized over time, however, in each instance (barring very few, so far), they have removed the freedoms/advancements, and sought more traditional practices, and stronger customs to regulate the behavior of their people.

And... not all Muslims? No. But the majority of Muslims do still live in the countryside as opposed to cities, are more likely not to be highly educated, and are more likely, again, to have strong traditional beliefs about how their faith should be practiced, and... it's impact on behavioral norms.

I love the argument though. Some Muslims are open minded, and will be more tolerant. Great. And so, we can't really consider the majority.. because the minority are different? Where's the logic in that?

As for what I know... you made the statement about going to Pride parades in Muslim countries. I'm bisexual, and have lived in both Muslim countries, and other countries, where homosexuality is banned. So... yeah, I know quite a bit about the topic.. and that's why I have little patience with the "not all Muslims" argument.

V8 Interceptor

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Not all Islamic countries are shaped by Islam?

Not all Muslim majority countries no.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As for what I know... you made the statement about going to Pride parades in Muslim countries. I'm bisexual, and have lived in both Muslim countries, and other countries, where homosexuality is banned. So... yeah, I know quite a bit about the topic.. and that's why I have little patience with the "not all Muslims" argument.

This says nothing?

Hamachi

bubblypop wrote: »

This says nothing?

Are you honestly incapable of deciphering the point that Klaz is making?

Can’t you try to argue your position intelligently without resorting to a stream of trite, monosyllabic responses?