What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Another feel good story on RTE today.

4 people have been deported since March. And 3 were executed before the pandemic.
Only those with a national security risk are liable during Covid.

Some TD quizzed Martin why someone in Wicklow was being deported close to Xmas(hence how the security risk reason was given).

I'd implore everyone against this to start giving these representatives their thoughts.
I dropped the TD in question a message and called her an embarrassment(I didn't abuse her for what its worth).

Maybe these clowns will think twice about defending illegal immigration if enough of us start to speak out.

Sounded like it took FOURTEEN years to issue the deportation order in that case... sweet mother of Mary.

Kivaro

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Another feel good story on RTE today.

4 people have been deported since March. And 3 were executed before the pandemic.
Only those with a national security risk are liable during Covid.

In fairness, I would be one to advocate all necessary measures to implement the laws of our country, but maybe that it one step too far .......

V8 Interceptor

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Another feel good story on RTE today.

4 people have been deported since March. And 3 were executed before the pandemic.

:eek:

ThunbergsAreGo

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Another feel good story on RTE today.

4 people have been deported since March. And 3 were executed before the pandemic.
Only those with a national security risk are liable during Covid.

Some TD quizzed Martin why someone in Wicklow was being deported close to Xmas(hence how the security risk reason was given).

I'd implore everyone against this to start giving these representatives their thoughts.
I dropped the TD in question a message and called her an embarrassment(I didn't abuse her for what its worth).

Maybe these clowns will think twice about defending illegal immigration if enough of us start to speak out.

Sounded like it took FOURTEEN years to issue the deportation order in that case... sweet mother of Mary.

Which TD?

Sir Oxman

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Which TD?

Sounds like the Social (Justice Warrior-Critical Theorist) Democrat TD for Wicklow:rolleyes:

Arthur Daley

If anyone is writing to these bufoons, maybe it'll help others if you share a generic template of the note.

Folks might then wish to use this as a basis for their own canvass of their TDs, councillors, senators etc.

Every little helps and all that

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Which TD?

Sorry, I looked lazily on RTE but it was gone from the homepage.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1183433/

Jennifer Whitmore.

Hopefully people start speaking up against this.

V8 Interceptor

So this guy is a security threat. Yet Jennifer thinks its mean deporting him so close to Christmas?!

gilberto_eire

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Another feel good story on RTE today.

4 people have been deported since March. And 3 were executed before the pandemic.
Only those with a national security risk are liable during Covid.

Some TD quizzed Martin why someone in Wicklow was being deported close to Xmas(hence how the security risk reason was given).

I'd implore everyone against this to start giving these representatives their thoughts.
I dropped the TD in question a message and called her an embarrassment(I didn't abuse her for what its worth).

Maybe these clowns will think twice about defending illegal immigration if enough of us start to speak out.

Sounded like it took FOURTEEN years to issue the deportation order in that case... sweet mother of Mary.

I assume its this person, you'll notice in the article no reason for his need for asylum or protection is given only that hes been here so long and doesn't know anyone back in Sierra Leone and maybe was in trouble in Nigeria in 2006 which is why he came to Ireland https://www.hotpress.com/culture/why-are-we-deporting-benjamin-akhile-after-14-years-in-ireland-22835083

Did anyone else read this letter to the editor about foreign language students from the Irish Council of International students, they make it sound as if it is policy to have language students sharing bedrooms and living in cramped spaces rather than a choice people make about cost. If they were able to point to them being overcharged versus Irish or European students who are also here for a short time, then I think its a valid criticism. I'm all in favour of increasing the amount of money we require language students to already have when they come and reducing the amount of language visas we give, given that it seems to be a primary way people illegally overstay

"Only 10 per cent of English-language students reported having a room to themselves. Quality needs to be enforced for all accommodation in the State, starting with urgent legislative reform. "

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/students-and-overcrowded-living-spaces-1.4431046

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Did anyone else read this letter to the editor about foreign language students from the Irish Council of International students, they make it sound as if it is policy to have language students sharing bedrooms and living in cramped spaces rather than a choice people make about cost. If they were able to point to them being overcharged versus Irish or European students who are also here for a short time, then I think its a valid criticism. I'm all in favour of increasing the amount of money we require language students to already have when they come and reducing the amount of language visas we give, given that it seems to be a primary way people illegally overstay

"Only 10 per cent of English-language students reported having a room to themselves. Quality needs to be enforced for all accommodation in the State, starting with urgent legislative reform. "

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/students-and-overcrowded-living-spaces-1.4431046

And in the interest of fairness, they can make a start by legislating for quality accommodation for every Irish person in the Country...man woman and child.

ThunbergsAreGo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Has it occurred to yourself that instead of some imagined conspiracy it might possibly be that immigration is simply not an important issue for Irish people?

I myself would rank it far behind:
Covid
Brexit
Housing
Economy
Education
Infrastructure
Climate Change
Emigration still to this day

Where is Law and Order on your list?

Brexit was said to be not important in the last election

Housing is only important if its not in your back yard

Climate Change is only important when we don't need to create millions of non recyclable masks

Etc etc

And I tend to agree that immigration isn't that important to people, but neither are most of the above when it effects them negatively

ThunbergsAreGo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Lower than those i listed but higher than Immigration

Ireland is not exactly the wild west of lawlessness now is it? the Gardai are doing a great job with limited resources they have.

aside: is that a dog whistle these days? Equating immigration with "lawlessness"

Not at all, i would have as much of a problem with Irish born criminals breaking the law. It just seemed a strange one to leave off the list. Your list seemed like a young upper middle class list of problems

I am outraged by that accusation of dog whistling

ThunbergsAreGo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I see you edited your post

Since you are talking about last election now

Which party(ies) made immigration a concern so we can check what % of vote they got, being a PR+STV democracy it would be quite representative of how highly immigration ranks as a concern among the eligible voting population

Please go ahead, i await.

You missed

And I tend to agree that immigration isn't that important to people, but neither are most of the above when it effects them negatively.

I took issue with your list more than anything, and now of course your accusations of dog whistling

ThunbergsAreGo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I am amused by that accusation of being young :P ive been on this site for 17 years now that should give you and indication of my age, upper middle age

as for using the word "class" in a Republic is hilarious, you know nothing of my background or childhood.

But it's an rte list, it's very hard to get a handle on what's important to people in Ireland.

Brexit wasnt and was reported so much in the media. I don't think immigration is important, however the more a debate isn't had on it, the more it will become one, as we have seen in other countries.

Allowing 17000 amnesty directly impacts housing, infrastructure etc. Yet it seems its not allowed to make that connection (see Dept of Housing)

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Has it occurred to yourself that instead of some imagined conspiracy it might possibly be that immigration is simply not an important issue for Irish people?

If it's not so important why do we see near daily mentions of how good it all is across Irish media? In the 90's before it was in play you'd not see a sniff of a mention. If it's not so important why did the Irish voter slam the door shut on jus soli loophole with the largest majority of a referendum in over a generation?

I myself would rank it far behind:
Covid
Brexit
Housing
Economy
Education
Infrastructure
Climate Change
Emigration still to this day

Well take housing, Brexit, education and the economy from that list. We have a housing problem in this country and yet apparently want to take more non EU people in. How do we house them? Brexit is going to cause us problems and with them attempting to clamp down on their borders and Labour wanting to reverse the jus soli loophole we're going to become very attractive to migrants wanting an in to the EU. Our social welfare bill is massive and in need of restructuring and again we have more non EU migrants on it than local, how does that affect the economy? Especially after the covid induced downturn and Brexit will affect it. In education, how do we upskill migrants so they can contribute to Irish society and how do we pay for that on top of the issues in education?

In essence we already have our own problems in need of solutions, yet by importing more people we add to those problems. So immigration is a very important issue.

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

We had an election recently where immigration was not even an issue to further highlight my point

Pick any political hot potato in the history of the state: Abortion, divorce, gender rights, Gay rights, the role of the Church in Irish society and at one time you could quite comfortably have claimed "We had an election recently where [insert potato here] was not even an issue to further highlight my point". Until it became one.

Wibbs

Oh and on climate change? Fewer people means fewer impacts on the climate, locally and globally. The single best thing someone can do to help the environment is not drive an EV, or recyle, but to have one less child. An Ireland of five million people is far more "green" than one of ten.

ThunbergsAreGo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why do you hate democracy? We had an election and the people have spoken

Immigration was not even a concern as recently as this year. And now suddenly it is?

Pretty much everything i listed on that list was key point of the recent elections.

Brexit wasn't, very surprisingly, Covid wasn't even a thing.

Ill shout it for you I DONT THINK IMMIGRATION IS A BIG ISSUE FOR IRISH PEOPLE AT PRESENT.

I am very pro legal immigration.

But if that's how you want to go the only direct vote we had on "illegal immigration", the anchor babies one, the less immigration side won. A vote Labour want to over turn.

Why do Labour hate democracy

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why do you hate democracy?

:rolleyes:

We had an election and the people have spoken

We had a referendum on jus soli and 80% of the people spoke and said nope, yet we have elected representatives at this very moment seeking to reverse that no without putting it to a democratic vote.

Immigration was not even a concern as recently as this year. And now suddenly it is?

The jus soli vote was in 2004.

Pretty much everything i listed on that list was key point of the recent elections.

Because they were the points put to the people. There are plenty of points the man on the street would see as important, yet rarely get an airing in the politics of elections. The health service, the social welfare bill, taxes. Indeed for an example of that look at that eejit Casey's trajectory in the last presidential election. He blurts out something about Travellers and social welfare chancers and near overnight goes from last in the polls to coming second in the election. Clearly those were "key points" for a large enough percentage of the Irish voter base, yet if he hadn't said them we could claim they were of no import at all.

weldoninhio

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Has it occurred to yourself that instead of some imagined conspiracy it might possibly be that immigration is simply not an important issue for Irish people?

I myself would rank it far behind:
Covid
Brexit
Housing
Economy
Education
Infrastructure
Climate Change
Emigration still to this day

No much politicians can do about the first two, they’ve almost run their course. The next 5 are massively influenced by immigration. Maybe you just don’t understand that?

V8 Interceptor

Wibbs wrote: »

We have a housing problem in this country and yet apparently want to take more non EU people in. How do we house them?

I think we can safely say Battery Horse isn't on the housing list

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

But all of those {Abortion, divorce, gender rights, Gay rights, the role of the Church in Irish society } have been an issue in past elections

We voted in governments that promised to hold referendums on these subjects and then done just that. The governments of the day didnt just wake up and decide to hold referendums on these subjects, they got a mandate from the voting population to do so in the general election

No, you miss my point by a country mile. They became mandates because someone somewhere stood up and talked about them and got votes on the back of it. Before they were talked about they were still major concerns, but you wouldn't know they were because no politician was talking about them.

I do not remember any party in this last election even talking about immigration. Never mind promising a referendum on anything related to immigration.

So once again. the people have spoken and immigration was not a concern

See above. Like I said pick any time in Irish history where things that became "obvious" public mandates weren't spoken of.

Never mind that when we did have a referendum on immigration it got the largest majority of any recent referendum and the people said no, knock that easy route on the head. Even though a few of the parties were shouting it was racist at the time. And now the same parties are seeking to overturn that democratic vote. You seem to be in favour of democracy when it suits your views.

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Tell that to people whose homes getting flooded

Or farmers whose crops are being destroyed

Again missing my point by a country mile. If this country has more people, more houses will need building and more houses will be built on flood prone areas and more people will have their homes flooded. Fewer people and this will be reduced. There will be less impact on the land full stop.

BTW climate change is the biggest driver of migration in the world

It's certainly one of the reasons. Conflict another. Again too many people in developing nations having too many kids is a massive one. Which leads to not enough local economy to go around so people move to where the economy is. If you reversed climate change tomorrow that would still be in play.

But while the West comforts itself in driving in their Prius to the organic market to buy environmentally friendly mung beans flown in from Israel in recycled cardboard and thinks it's making a difference, while airlifting johnnies and the pill to the third world would actually make a real difference.

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

The 27th amendment was not a vote a vote against "illegal immigration"

The voting slip had something like this thinking back to then



The referendum was on the right to citizenship of newborns in this state, nothing there about legal or illegal immigration.

Eh... wut? The very reason the referendum was called for was because people were using that loophole to get residency here. It was entirely about immigration. One would want to have some really oddball viewpoint to see it as not about that. Hell the run up to the referendum was all about that. Those in favour of it were showing the bloated stats of non EU foreign born babies in Irish maternity wings, those against it were shouting racism. Kinda hard to do either of those without it being about immigration don't you think. Saying the 2004 wasn't about immigration is like saying divorce referendums weren't about married couples.

BTW US (yes that US with build the wall, Mexicans are rapists Trump) is one of the few countries which gives citizenship to children born in the state.
And guess what its not even an issue there either, no one there has linked pregnant women coming in and giving birth to new American citizens to illegal migration. Hell Trump himself makes money from pregnant Russian women coming in and staying in his resorts to give birth to Americans.

1) They give citizenship to children born there. their parents are not given automatic residency.
2) America is a nation founded upon and reliant upon immigration. Ireland is not.
3) since America became less reliant upon immigration they have significantly raised the bar for entry.
4) As you point out American is one of the few countries which has jus soli, so why should we be another?
5) Being born in America doesn't give you automatic right of movement to the rest of the Americas, like being born in Ireland does to the rest of the EU.

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Can you point at any party in the last election standing up and talking about immigration and hence looking for mandate

I am still waiting for evidence of migration being a major issue in Ireland in 2020, a year where travel around the world basically collapsed due to Covid

Michael Collins in West Cork is about the only person I know who was elected as a TD on a strict immigration control platform.

I agree most people voted for parties who support huge levels of migration, I still think it's an issue and anecdotally it is coming to the fore more and more.

I expect Sinn Fein to get power in this country in the next election or two, that to me will prove very interesting because they are about as liberal as it is possible to be with regard to immigration and open borders, yet their supporters are the opposite, again this is in my opinion from the people I know who voted for them.

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I am still waiting for any evidence and facts to support the thesis that migration is a major concern for Irish people in 2020

Clearly it was not a concern in 2020 elections.

It was clearly a concern when it was put to the Irish people in 2004 and they voted accordingly. But I fear the lady's not for turning and you'll continue on the "nothing to see here" tack regardless of what points are put to you.

Wibbs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

What do you think would happen to the housing list if houses build today would endup under water in the future due to climate change, its already happening

More people = more housing = more flooding. Unless you think we can reverse any climate change overnight locally or globally.

V8 Interceptor

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

What do you think would happen to the housing list if houses build today would endup under water in the future due to climate change, its already happening

Yet you don't mind increasing Irish emissions by the importation of Africans.

You probably want the national herd cut at the same time.

V8 Interceptor

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

What do you think would happen to the housing list if houses build today would endup under water in the future due to climate change, its already happening

PS Like I said, clearly not on the housing list :pac::pac::pac: