What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ArchXStanton

"A 2007 government report stated that immigration in Dublin has caused "dramatic" white flight from elementary schools in a studied area (Dublin 15). 27% of residents were foreign-born immigrants. The report stated that Dublin was risking creating immigrant-dominated banlieues, on the outskirts of a city, similar to such areas in France. The immigrants in the area included Eastern Europeans (such as those from Poland), Asians, and Africans (mainly from Nigeria).[51]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

We're already further down the track than we think

suicide_circus

with the exception of metro urban centres and council housing, people tend to live in areas with people who are like them.

Dyr

ArchXStanton wrote: »

"A 2007 government report stated that immigration in Dublin has caused "dramatic" white flight from elementary schools in a studied area (Dublin 15). 27% of residents were foreign-born immigrants. The report stated that Dublin was risking creating immigrant-dominated banlieues, on the outskirts of a city, similar to such areas in France. The immigrants in the area included Eastern Europeans (such as those from Poland), Asians, and Africans (mainly from Nigeria).[51]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

We're already further down the track than we think

I remember being out in a big school in Dublin 15, you take a look at the class photos and names then you realize that Irish as an ethnicitiy is finished in that catchment area.

We're not further down the track, we've arrived.

biko

We need a referendum that will guide the politicians for the next 20 years.

DelaneyIn

biko wrote: »

We need a referendum that will guide the politicians for the next 20 years.

We may get a rerun of the twenty seventy amendment. That would be “fun.” It would give us a gauge of where we are at.

threeball

Hamachi wrote: »

Is this genuine? I have met and worked with quite a few immigrants who have minimal interest in Ireland, but I’ve never known a scenario where there is such open hostility displayed to the local community. If this is legitimate, it’s pretty concerning.

Your scenario also ties in with one of the points I made in my previous posts; many people have no intention of bridging cross-cultural divides and are quite happy to remain ensconced within their own communities.

According to one commentator here, this is a failing of Irish people not to reach out. Of course, the point that s/he repeatedly chooses to ignore is that many people, regardless of their origins, simply prefer being around those with whom they share common values and outlooks.

This underpins the development of parallel societies all across Western Europe. If your example is genuine, it looks like Ireland is further down that track than I had believed it to be.

Yes completely genuine and not that uncommon I would have thought. I think its probably more prevalent down the country as getting rental properties in Dublin is difficult so grouping together isn't as easy but its certainly doable in provincial towns. It gets to a tipping point where no locals want to live there as they're now the foreigner and so the rest of the houses become available to other families of the prominent nationalities in the estate.

Its not a matter of reaching out by the Irish either. These people need to want to assimilate, go out with Irish workmates, get their kids into GAA, rugby or whatever but its not really happening. Lots see it as a means to make money then go home, others are here for the long haul but want to live the way they lived in their home country. I'm involved in two GAA clubs, we have zero non Irish kids on the teams or kids who are Irish but parents are not and they are very well run and welcoming clubs.

Eric Cartman

DelaneyIn wrote: »

We may get a rerun of the twenty seventy amendment. That would be “fun.” It would give us a gauge of where we are at.

its what the 'abolish it' class fear the most. You'd probably have a similar enough 80% repeat on it, but it would certainly pass by a considerable majority, which would send the left and NGO's into hysterics.

ArchXStanton

biko wrote: »

We need a referendum that will guide the politicians for the next 20 years.

We need to get rid of compliant politicians and tell the EU to p!ss off with themselves, other than that I see no hope for the place

Geuze

One thing strikes me:

There are lots of eastern Europeans here, maybe 100,000?

There are fewer Africans here, I'd say.


Yet the SJW/RTE/IT/civil service keep pushing the agenda of "diversity / "new-Irish / put black faces in posters, not enough minorities in certain positions" etc for the Africans, yet they don't seem to suggest the same thing for the eastern Europeans??

Eric Cartman

Geuze wrote: »

One thing strikes me:

There are lots of eastern Europeans here, maybe 100,000?

There are fewer Africans here, I'd say.


Yet the SJW/RTE/IT/civil service keep pushing the agenda of "diversity / "new-Irish / put black faces in posters, not enough minorities in certain positions" etc for the Africans, yet they don't seem to suggest the same thing for the eastern Europeans??

because they integrate.... so are seen as a homogenous group with the Irish...... kind of like exactly the thing we want immigrants to be.

Geuze

Hamachi wrote: »

Is this genuine? I have met and worked with quite a few immigrants who have minimal interest in Ireland, but I’ve never known a scenario where there is such open hostility displayed to the local community. If this is legitimate, it’s pretty concerning.

Your scenario also ties in with one of the points I made in my previous posts; many people have no intention of bridging cross-cultural divides and are quite happy to remain ensconced within their own communities.

Yes, there are Chinese take-aways in practically every town in Ireland??

Yet I have never seen a Chinese person in the pubs I go to?

You'd hardly know they're here.

Wibbs

biko wrote: »

We need a referendum that will guide the politicians for the next 20 years.

I can almost certainly guarantee the Irish people won't be given that choice to vote on such a matter. The top down drive is too strong and the propaganda well embedded at this stage. Who will go against that? RTE? Give me a break. Not a hope there and little hope with the rest of our media and the various and numerous NGO's are fully behind it. Turkey's won't vote for Christmas. That pic a few pages ago from an Irish government page where the actual demographic make up of Ireland is utterly and completely misrepresented and deliberately so to paint a wonderful multicultural fantasy land speaks volumes. Not a single White Irish bloke in the mix. Y'know those folks who make up just about half the people in this country. The agenda is pretty clear and scarily transparent.

Though as Bambi notes we're already in this poo of this diversity dreamland. And within the space of two decades with it.

Dyr

Geuze wrote: »

One thing strikes me:

There are lots of eastern Europeans here, maybe 100,000?

There are fewer Africans here, I'd say.


Yet the SJW/RTE/IT/civil service keep pushing the agenda of "diversity / "new-Irish / put black faces in posters, not enough minorities in certain positions" etc for the Africans, yet they don't seem to suggest the same thing for the eastern Europeans??

Eastern Europeans (which can mean anything really) tend to share a common European (for want of a better word) outlook with us. They're just not sufficiently diverse enough for the loons.

Plus most Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc. that I've known with have no time for any PC nonsense. They're more like Irish people from back in the 80s.
We should probably deport them.

Wibbs

Geuze wrote: »

One thing strikes me:

There are lots of eastern Europeans here, maybe 100,000?

There are fewer Africans here, I'd say.


Yet the SJW/RTE/IT/civil service keep pushing the agenda of "diversity / "new-Irish / put black faces in posters, not enough minorities in certain positions" etc for the Africans, yet they don't seem to suggest the same thing for the eastern Europeans??

Because Eastern Europeans are White Europeans. Simple as that. White faces don't look good in HR department posters or NGO front pages. They're not the Right sort of immigrant or multicultural. Same for the thousands of German, French, Italian, Russian, Spanish, British etc White folks living here. Most people don't realise there are over 100,000 British people living here, over 10,000 each of Germans, French, Spanish and Italians. You won't see them in posters glorifying our diversity. They may as well be invisible to the progressives.

Like I noted earlier, none of these multiculturalist muppets would dream of suggesting a Black nation is in need of the "diversity" of a large influx of White people, but they're very particular about what kind of "diversity" they want and it's only White people who need it. So Ireland could be one of the most multicultural places on Earth, but if those sub cultures were only pale of face White Europeans that wouldn't cut it. Not even close. You'll note East Asian folks don't get so much of a look in either and are definitely down the hierarchy of what is Correct Diversity. Like I also noted before there is very much a hierarchy of "race" with your progressive types and it exactly follows the hierarchy of out and out racists. They're both just as obsessed by it.

TL;DR? the darker the berry, the sweeter the juice of attention and virtue.

Hamachi

Bambi wrote: »

I remember being out in a big school in Dublin 15, you take a look at the class photos and names then you realize that Irish as an ethnicitiy is finished in that catchment area.

We're not further down the track, we've arrived.

Normally, I don’t get involved in political debates. It’s just not worth the aggravation. However, I live in Dublin 15 and have a young family, which means I have ‘skin in the game’ in this conversation around multiculturalism.

You are correct. There are schools in this area where 70-80% of the children are non-Irish. For balance, there is also a significant number of schools that are predominantly Irish. Dublin 15 is a big place. The demographics can change dramatically within half a mile.

What’s indisputable is that distinct ethnic enclaves have formed in this area. For instance, there is a very noticeable concentration of South Asian people in Ongar.

White / Irish flight is an on-going phenomenon out here. When we first moved into our development, ~80% of residents were Irish. Today, it’s ~60%. Anecdotally, several of my neighbors have removed their kids from local schools and transferred to less diverse schools in the commuter towns further out. Whether it’s true or not, their rationale is that they believed their children’s education was being compromised by the time spent on English language acquisition.

As a parent, this concerns me deeply. I’m not sure if Dublin 15 is the right locale or can provide an appropriate educational setting for my family. It’s disturbing to think that there are now parts of our towns and cities that Irish people are actively avoiding.

ArchXStanton

Hamachi wrote: »

Normally, I don’t get involved in political debates. It’s just not worth the aggravation. However, I live in Dublin 15 and have a young family, which means I have ‘skin in the game’ in this conversation around multiculturalism.

You are correct. There are schools in this area where 70-80% of the children are non-Irish. For balance, there is also a significant number of schools that are predominantly Irish. Dublin 15 is a big place. The demographics can change dramatically within half a mile.

What’s indisputable is that distinct ethnic enclaves have formed in this area. For instance, there is a very noticeable concentration of South Asian people in Ongar.

White / Irish flight is an on-going phenomenon out here. When we first moved into our development, ~80% of residents were Irish. Today, it’s ~60%. Anecdotally, several of my neighbors have removed their kids from local schools and transferred to less diverse schools in the commuter towns further out. Whether it’s true or not, their rationale is that they believed their children’s education was being compromised by the time spent on English language acquisition.

As a parent, this concerns me deeply. I’m not sure if Dublin 15 is the right locale or can provide an appropriate educational setting for my family. It’s disturbing to think that there are now parts of our towns and cities that Irish people are actively avoiding.

I wouldn't blame those parents, I've a relative that works in a school in North Dublin, she told me she has to wear a card around her neck with pictures of things like toilet, water etc and point to them to see what the kids are looking for. It struck me as a bit mad, she also told me that she regularly has parents asking her why their kids aren't speaking English quicker to which she asks them well do you speak it at home with them? Usually no is the answer

biko

There are pockets we can learn from, like Ballyhaunis in Mayo

December, 2015 https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/life-in-ballyhaunis-irelands-most-culturally-diverse-town-369099.html

Pakistani names have featured on Ballyhaunis hurling teams for over two decades. There are eastern European and Syrian names on the Ballyhaunis soccer team while the recently established Ballyhaunis Cricket Club is a strong outlet for members of the Muslim community.

Students get along quite well. There’s never been any flashpoints from a race perspective. Having said that at lunchtimes students with similar backgrounds do hang around and that’s understandable and that happens in all walks of life.

The indigenous population is coming close to being the minority and the social cohesion of the town is under threat. The migrants don’t take an active a part in the social economy of the town.

It’s important to remember though that the need for integration is but one of the its struggles. Ballyhaunis saw a 38% surge in its population from 2006 to 2011. This immigrant-driven hike hides the exodus of thousands of the town’s youth due to a lack of graduate employment.

By and large, integration has done quite well. That’s thanks to the schools, organisations like the GAA, Tidy Towns who make the effort to involve every nationality.

Eastern europeans and Africans are very welcome in this church indeed, as are people of other religions and eastern Europeans have acted as readers and eucharistic ministers.
There was a Polish mass here but it was stopped because the Polish community wanted to integrate more and go to the regular mass.”

1800_Ladladlad

"We don't need a new referendum to overturn what was happened in 2004"
- Aodhán O'Ríordáin in Dail. June 17th, stating that any child born here should have automatic citizenship. Anti-democratic suits like him don't want a referendum because they know how it will go. Would they be brave enough to overturn the decision made by the people regarding article 27 and anchor babies? I sure as hell won't be happy and that's an understatement.

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

Because Eastern Europeans are White Europeans. Simple as that. White faces don't look good in HR department posters or NGO front pages. They're not the Right sort of immigrant or multicultural. Same for the thousands of German, French, Italian, Russian, Spanish, British etc White folks living here. Most people don't realise there are over 100,000 British people living here, over 10,000 each of Germans, French, Spanish and Italians. You won't see them in posters glorifying our diversity. They may as well be invisible to the progressives.

Like I noted earlier, none of these multiculturalist muppets would dream of suggesting a Black nation is in need of the "diversity" of a large influx of White people, but they're very particular about what kind of "diversity" they want and it's only White people who need it. So Ireland could be one of the most multicultural places on Earth, but if those sub cultures were only pale of face White Europeans that wouldn't cut it. Not even close. You'll note East Asian folks don't get so much of a look in either and are definitely down the hierarchy of what is Correct Diversity. Like I also noted before there is very much a hierarchy of "race" with your progressive types and it exactly follows the hierarchy of out and out racists. They're both just as obsessed by it.

TL;DR? the darker the berry, the sweeter the juice of attention and virtue.

its almost fetishistic. for the multiculturists, a dark face is an item of exotica, a feel good trophy. it is profoundly racist.

Geuze

Wibbs wrote: »

Like I noted earlier, none of these multiculturalist muppets would dream of suggesting a Black nation is in need of the "diversity" of a large influx of White people, but they're very particular about what kind of "diversity" they want and it's only White people who need it. So Ireland could be one of the most multicultural places on Earth, but if those sub cultures were only pale of face White Europeans that wouldn't cut it. Not even close. You'll note East Asian folks don't get so much of a look in either and are definitely down the hierarchy of what is Correct Diversity. Like I also noted before there is very much a hierarchy of "race" with your progressive types and it exactly follows the hierarchy of out and out racists. They're both just as obsessed by it.

TL;DR? the darker the berry, the sweeter the juice of attention and virtue.

+100%, you write down my thoughts better than I can.

threeball

Hamachi wrote: »

Normally, I don’t get involved in political debates. It’s just not worth the aggravation. However, I live in Dublin 15 and have a young family, which means I have ‘skin in the game’ in this conversation around multiculturalism.

You are correct. There are schools in this area where 70-80% of the children are non-Irish. For balance, there is also a significant number of schools that are predominantly Irish. Dublin 15 is a big place. The demographics can change dramatically within half a mile.

What’s indisputable is that distinct ethnic enclaves have formed in this area. For instance, there is a very noticeable concentration of South Asian people in Ongar.

White / Irish flight is an on-going phenomenon out here. When we first moved into our development, ~80% of residents were Irish. Today, it’s ~60%. Anecdotally, several of my neighbors have removed their kids from local schools and transferred to less diverse schools in the commuter towns further out. Whether it’s true or not, their rationale is that they believed their children’s education was being compromised by the time spent on English language acquisition.

As a parent, this concerns me deeply. I’m not sure if Dublin 15 is the right locale or can provide an appropriate educational setting for my family. It’s disturbing to think that there are now parts of our towns and cities that Irish people are actively avoiding.

This is not just happening in Dublin. We have one rural school close to us where the student numbers swelled from 40 to over 200 in a matter of years. The local town schools were filled with foreign nationals and travellers and most of the day was dedicated to bringing these kids along to try to get some kind of standard. The local peoples kids were stunted due to this and parents voted with their feet and started moving them to the country schools. Most small schools surrounding the town are now at bursting point because of this. I know of 6 with extension work underway at the moment.

Hamachi

threeball wrote: »

This is not just happening in Dublin. We have one rural school close to us where the student numbers swelled from 40 to over 200 in a matter of years. The local town schools were filled with foreign nationals and travellers and most of the day was dedicated to bringing these kids along to try to get some kind of standard. The local peoples kids were stunted due to this and parents voted with their feet and started moving them to the country schools. Most small schools surrounding the town are now at bursting point because of this. I know of 6 with extension work underway at the moment.

That’s depressing. It really makes you wonder where our society is going. What’s the endgame of all this demographic change? What kind of society is being passed on to the next generation, our children?

One thing I do know is that some mild mannered people are increasingly uneasy about the changes they see happening around them. This rising sense of disquiet has been ignored or silenced until now. However, if things continue in the current direction, it’s inevitable that the boiling pot will start to overflow.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

That’s depressing. It really makes you wonder where our society is going. What’s the endgame of all this demographic change? What kind of society is being passed on to the next generation, our children?
.

We will have the same issues they have in Molenbeek, Tower Hamlets, Harlem, Baltimore etc. That's a given. How that will improve our society I'm not sure.

Kermit.de.frog

A lot of areas in the UK are not actually "multicultural" - rather they become separate areas of mono-culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgXFzauGwog

It's not hard to see why a growing number of English people are concerned about immigration and why voting patterns are what they are becoming today - which is ever more to the right.

kildare lad

Geuze wrote: »

One thing strikes me:

There are lots of eastern Europeans here, maybe 100,000?

There are fewer Africans here, I'd say.


Yet the SJW/RTE/IT/civil service keep pushing the agenda of "diversity / "new-Irish / put black faces in posters, not enough minorities in certain positions" etc for the Africans, yet they don't seem to suggest the same thing for the eastern Europeans??

They seem mad for a bit of bbc

Dyr

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A lot of areas in the UK are not actually "multicultural" - rather they become separate areas of mono-culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgXFzauGwog

It's not hard to see why a growing number of English people are concerned about immigration and why voting patterns are what they are becoming today - which is ever more to the right.

Whats sobering is that the Tories are now more popular with low income voters than they are with high income voters

wildeside

Hamachi wrote: »

That’s depressing. It really makes you wonder where our society is going. What’s the endgame of all this demographic change? What kind of society is being passed on to the next generation, our children?

One thing I do know is that some mild mannered people are increasingly uneasy about the changes they see happening around them. This rising sense of disquiet has been ignored or silenced until now. However, if things continue in the current direction, it’s inevitable that the boiling pot will start to overflow.

I think the end-game is actually pretty obvious i.e. the end of nation states as such. And no, I'm not wearing a tin-foil hat .... not today at least.

The world has always been shaped by the elites and their particular world-view (just look at any of Adam Curtis documentaries e.g. Centry of The Self on YouTube for a history of this in the last 100 years for example). This is not conspiratorial clap-trap nonsense, it's just a simple fact of life. I mean somebody has to decide how society is organised and run e.g. freemarket economy vs communism say. Someone has to come up with these ideas and then implement them ... and then we all see what happens.

The European elite in particular are terrified of another world war on the continent, two of them left their mark and we got the EU out of it (which we have a lot to be thankful for). The EU elite theory is that nation states ultimately end up fighting each other, often around the issue of nationalism/identify. So how do we solve that particular problem? Well, if you could erase or at least blur the lines then surely that would lead to a more peaceful world. It's a very plausible theory. It's also one massive social experiment.


Also the free-market globalists want to maximise trade and reduce trade friction. That means opening up countries and borders. Freedom of movement of people, goods and services is paramount to the functioning of this system. Proponents of this ideology argue that this creates a rising tide that lifts all boats and it's kind of hard to argue the point when you see how we live now compared to say 30-40 years ago. Largely agrarian to largely knowledge-based economy in a very short space of time. Very like South Korea in that regard.

So globalisation as a socio-economic ideology can in theory lift and lot of people out of poverty and create a more peaceful (less nationalised) world.

I think the aims are noble but, like communism, putting the theory into practise may yield wholly unintended results.

Jaysys ... what a rant. But yeah, the end goal is clear enough.

olestoepoke

threeball wrote: »

This is not just happening in Dublin. We have one rural school close to us where the student numbers swelled from 40 to over 200 in a matter of years. The local town schools were filled with foreign nationals and travellers and most of the day was dedicated to bringing these kids along to try to get some kind of standard. The local peoples kids were stunted due to this and parents voted with their feet and started moving them to the country schools. Most small schools surrounding the town are now at bursting point because of this. I know of 6 with extension work underway at the moment.

My two boys go to an all Irish speaking gaelscoil. We chose this form of education because the alternative educate together is mostly "new Irish". I read that there has been an increase in demand for Irish speaking schools in recent years and many believe it is due to a form of racism or xenephobia but our main motive was fear of stunted learning due to time wasted on foreign kids etc. I'm not doubting there is some racism behind the popularity of irish schools as in our case the pupils are 99% "old irish"

olestoepoke

Hamachi wrote: »

That’s depressing. It really makes you wonder where our society is going. What’s the endgame of all this demographic change? What kind of society is being passed on to the next generation, our children?

One thing I do know is that some mild mannered people are increasingly uneasy about the changes they see happening around them. This rising sense of disquiet has been ignored or silenced until now. However, if things continue in the current direction, it’s inevitable that the boiling pot will start to overflow.

It's as if anyone with any concerns is walking around on eggshells afraid to say anything or disagree with what's happening for fear of being called a bigot.

ELM327

olestoepoke wrote: »

My two boys go to an all Irish speaking gaelscoil. We chose this form of education because the alternative educate together is mostly "new Irish". I read that there has been an increase in demand for Irish speaking schools in recent years and many believe it is due to a form of racism or xenephobia but our main motive was fear of stunted learning due to time wasted on foreign kids etc. I'm not doubting there is some racism behind the popularity of irish schools as in our case the pupils are 99% "old irish"

Thats a very interesting point of view.
Is less time wasted learning Irish than in the main schools helping other kids learn english?