What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

I rest my case. It's pretty clear you have no particular grá for the nation you apparently have lived a long time in.

Are you a "citizen of the world" perchance?

biko

biko wrote: »

I suppose the concept of national pride and the sense of belonging is lost on you.

Me, if I moved to France with the intention to remain there decades I'd very vigorously learn the language, the customs, and get myself a citizenship so even though I was not French by birth I'd make my damndest to fit in and take pride in my new country.

Yep, if I am going to live in another country where English is not the first language, I would obviously make an effort to learn the local language .

Which is probably why I have, very basic, Albanian, German, Swedish, and Finnish
And I am at the moment, doing more Finnish, German & a little bit of Albanian

biko

biko wrote: »

I rest my case. It's pretty clear you have no particular grá for the nation you apparently have lived a long time in.

Are you a "citizen of the world" perchance?

Nope, I'm not
I'm Irish

biko

I see. Hence the no value you place in your Irish citizenship, it was free and gratis for you.

Hamachi

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

You don’t understand what a privilege it is to be a citizen of a stable, safe, developed nation where there are almost limitless possibilities for self- and economic-actualisation?

The fact that I need to spell this out explicitly for you is pretty telling.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

You don’t understand what a privilege it is to be a citizen of a stable, safe, developed nation where there are almost limitless possibilities for self- and economic-actualisation?

The fact that I need to spell this out explicitly for you is pretty telling.

No, it's really not telling at all!
So am I Irish?
Or am I any other nationality?
What do you think? And does it matter?

biko

biko wrote: »

I see. Hence the no value you place in your Irish citizenship, it was free and gratis for you.

And what difference does it make?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

People can hold more than one passport and more than one citizenship.
But why should anyone pay huge money to become a citizen of Ireland?

For the very reason you raised. To have a voice in how the country is run. Citizenship. It's important. Hence the discussion at hand.

And... it's not huge money. It's about 1k euro for the certificate, so.. say about 2k after all the paperwork, solicitor fees etc are done.

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

So, you believe that anyone, at all, if they are in a country, should be able to vote in elections?

Citizenship carries protections too. Holding an Irish passport, and being Irish, is of tremendous benefit while living abroad, due to the general reputation of the country.

bubblypop wrote: »

Nope, I'm not
I'm Irish

Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of immigration in Ireland.

You misunderstood, or misinterpreted Hamachi's post. I don't know whether it was intentional, or a mistake, but you've decided to double down since then. Why? Why not admit you misunderstood, rather than pushing something that you have no personal investment in? Just seems strange.

biko

biko wrote: »

I see. Hence the no value you place in your Irish citizenship, it was free and gratis for you.

To be honest, I suspect this is one of the major reasons that multiculturalism is failing in western nations. People don't appreciate getting citizenship.

Past migration led to people who were grateful for the opportunity to live/work in a foreign country, to set down roots, and for their children to better them in the new country.

However, the world has shifted due to the wave of identity politics, and now, people feel entitled to citizenship. It has no value to them. They hold to the identity of their original countries/cultures, making little effort to integrate in the new country, and passing that lack of value on to their children.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

You don’t understand what a privilege it is to be a citizen of a stable, safe, developed nation where there are almost limitless possibilities for self- and economic-actualisation?

The fact that I need to spell this out explicitly for you is pretty telling.

Are you serious?
Of course / it is obvious to me how great it is to live in a country where the majority of people believe in an equal society for all.
Sure let's look it up online......

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

And what difference does it make?

Let me put it this way.

When you are given a free house you don't have an understanding of the pride and joy of someone who had to work really hard for them to get a nice house also.

I think until you have travelled more and experienced other cultures it may be difficult to sense the national pride Kurds, Turks, Moroccans etc have in their nations.

A hint, if you do move abroad, don't tell them you think citizenship in their country isn't worth anything. Not everyone will agree with your point of view on this matter.
Also, if you do move, try to assimilate into their culture. Many don't appreciate people moving in and not appreciating their country.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, if I am going to live in another country where English is not the first language, I would obviously make an effort to learn the local language .

Which is probably why I have, very basic, Albanian, German, Swedish, and Finnish
And I am at the moment, doing more Finnish, German & a little bit of Albanian

You have no problem then, you can settle where ever your fancy takes you !!!

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, I suspect this is one of the major reasons that multiculturalism is failing in western nations. People don't appreciate getting citizenship.

Denmark is working hard on making sure Danish citizenship isn't valueless.
If a decision is reached that a foreign citizen is deemed a threat to national security, the person in question will, as a general rule, have his or her residence permit revoked and be deported to the country he or she is a citizen of.

Citizenship then not only becomes a right but also an obligation.

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would I put any privilege of Irish citizenship?
What would being an Irish citizen to for me?

An EU passport for starters.

Hamachi

bubblypop wrote: »

No, it's really not telling at all!
So am I Irish?
Or am I any other nationality?
What do you think? And does it matter?

I know you might find this hard to comprehend, but I don’t find you particularly fascinating. The goal of this thread is to debate the merits / demerits of multiculturalism.

It’s not about you. Frankly, I don’t care what you are or how you define yourself.

What does exercise me is discussing why Ireland should have a robust, skills-based immigration system that prioritizes high caliber inward migration and excludes those who have no legal right to migrate here.

Can we shift the focus away from you and return to the topic at hand?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of immigration in Ireland.

You misunderstood, or misinterpreted Hamachi's post. I don't know whether it was intentional, or a mistake, but you've decided to double down since then. Why? Why not admit you misunderstood, rather than pushing something that you have no personal investment in? Just seems strange.

I was overseas during the last presidential election.
Same as I was for the constitutional referendum on the 8th.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

You have no problem then, you can settle where ever your fancy takes you !!!

Not really. It's only in western (and some Eastern European) nations where you have the chance to get citizenship and be accepted.

If he tried that in Asia, Africa, etc, you can be legally <whatever>, but the average person won't accept him, and most officials won't either. It's not even about being accepted as the same as a native, but being accepted as <insert nationality>, because the national identity is so fixed.

I speak pretty good Mandarin, I know most of the cultural norms, have extensive contacts.. I could live there for fifty years, and I'll always be a laowai, a foreigner. I know a few foreigners who have managed to get residency or live there long term, with their chinese wives, and kids.. nope, they're still foreigners.

And that is the way it is in most countries.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I was overseas during the last presidential election.
Same as I was for the constitutional referendum on the 8th.

Whooptie do. So was I. What's your point? I still value my citizenship.

Seems a really oddball response to what I posted.

biko

At least bubblypop got attention for a page or two so that's a win for her/him.

Hamachi

bubblypop wrote: »

I was overseas during the last presidential election.
Same as I was for the constitutional referendum on the 8th.

You’re not making any sense now. Go to bed and get some sleep. We’ll resume the discussion when you’re capable of some coherence.

When we do resume, let’s make it less about you and focus on the broader topic where there is a legitimate exchange of ideas.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of Ireland

I never once suggested That I was I person that isn't Irish was looking at their posts.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I never once suggested That I was I person that isn't Irish was looking at their posts.

While I'm generally not one to pick someone up on bad grammar (my own is pretty bad at times), this is gibberish.

<Twisting my head into knots> I guess you mean.. yeah.. no. You did. More doubling down. Refusing to acknowledge what you, yourself, have stated on the thread.

Yeah. I'm done. You're not arguing in good faith, and I can't be bothered chasing you down rabbit holes, when you're not even going to defend your own posts honestly.

Night folks. (That's everyone else)

Bubblypop.. when you're ready to actually commit to a discussion, I'll deal with you. I see no point in doing so now.

Hamachi

bubblypop wrote: »

I never once suggested That I was I person that isn't Irish was looking at their posts.

Please go bed. You’re starting to come across as the spinster aunt at the family wedding who has gotten stuck into the gin.

Let’s draw a line under it for tonight and come back to it when you’re coherent and capable of debate.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really. It's only in western (and some Eastern European) nations where you have the chance to get citizenship and be accepted.

If he tried that in Asia, Africa, etc, you can be legally <whatever>, but the average person won't accept him, and most officials won't either. It's not even about being accepted as the same as a native, but being accepted as <insert nationality>, because the national identity is so fixed.

I speak pretty good Mandarin, I know most of the cultural norms, have extensive contacts.. I could live there for fifty years, and I'll always be a laowai, a foreigner. I know a few foreigners who have managed to get residency or live there long term, with their chinese wives, and kids.. nope, they're still foreigners.

And that is the way it is in most countries.

Yes, I under stand that OK, but he mentioned Albanian, German, Swedish, and Finnish. So as a EU Citizen, he would be welcome to move to any of these Country's, and live there if he wanted to. If living in Ireland is not to his liking. Citizenship varies from Country to Country even within the EU if that was what you wanted. For sure, there are far worse citizenships to have than the Irish one....

Hamachi

bubblypop wrote: »

So, let's move the focus towards people that are legally in this country. Let's move people towards the jobs area.
Unlike the poster above, I don't anything against anybody looking for a job in any work in any area.

You’re not making any sense sweetheart. I’m out for tonight.

Good night folks.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

If he tried that in Asia, Africa, etc, you can be legally <whatever>, but the average person won't accept him, and most officials won't either. It's not even about being accepted as the same as a native, but being accepted as <insert nationality>, because the national identity is so fixed.

I speak pretty good Mandarin, I know most of the cultural norms, have extensive contacts.. I could live there for fifty years, and I'll always be a laowai, a foreigner. I know a few foreigners who have managed to get residency or live there long term, with their chinese wives, and kids.. nope, they're still foreigners.

And that is the way it is in most countries.

Because in most non western countries they feel their national identity is something valuable and don't have insecurities about it compared to an increasing trend in some western societies.

Thinking more on it this could be why Ireland is so hell bent on running this multicultural experiment, even when it's clearly not working so well in other nations who've been running it for years. The Irish can be extremely insecure about themselves and their Irishness. Every visiting dignitary or celeb is often met by an embarrassing servility and requests to big us up because of the grace of their presence. Maximum points if one of their great great grandparent's friends once visited Cork. Hell any viewing of the Late Late Show over the last 50 years would show this. Tubs is truly cringeworthy on that score, though Pat the Plank and Gaybo were prone to it too, though generally not as badly. They had some excuse as Ireland during Gaybo's time was much more a backwater, but even the massive shift in economics and exposure and recognition in the world hasn't changed this underlying neurosis.

Check out any thread about Ireland on this site(or comments on reddit, facebook or youtube) and you're almost guaranteed to have the usual litany about how crap we and the country is. How backward we were for so long and still are, how Irish women are all aggressive munters and foreign women are all wonderfully open supermodels. Too often we're still tugging the forelock to authority, because we love authority, with a large chunk of unspecified guilt and a need to fit in. hell, look how quick we are to lose our accents and slap on new ones. Look at how so many Irish men and women had to leave here to make names for themselves in the arts and business and we fete them like demigods when they grace us with their presence, unless they have the gall to actually still live here(Bono as an example). No wonder the Brits and then especially the Church found us so pliable to control. We've huge national psyche guilt about that too, hence all our woes were first laid at London's feet and now laid at Rome's.

So being told "diversity" will somehow make us better, less Irish in effect, is an easy sell. Our apparently awful food will be better, our women will be better looking, we'll be less the meh freckled ginger pasty faces and the other nations will finally see us as the great people we are. If only we could do something about the weather. Maybe global warming will help here... The Irish psyche must be about the most ripe for "virtue signalling" and buying into another round of bullshite from authority on the planet.

Necro

Hamachi wrote: »

You’re not making any sense sweetheart. I’m out for tonight.

Good night folks.

Mod:

Threadbanned

Tipperary animal lover

Necro wrote: »

Mod:

Threadbanned

And there you go, they'll rile you up and get you banned, common occurrence on these threads, drag the thread else where, try get it closed, shut it down at all costs, better off not engaging, its going that way on another thread also, sure we're all racists anyway so why debate!!

Eric Cartman

Back on topic before one poster gets this thread shut down with their insane ramblings.

I see over the last week Irelands professional racist Ebun Joseph has been doing zoom calls with college students across the land about ‘critical race theory’ . Why are we allowing this racist influence our youth and teach them absolute nonsense

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Back on topic before one poster gets this thread shut down with their insane ramblings.

I see over the last week Irelands professional racist Ebun Joseph has been doing zoom calls with college students across the land about ‘critical race theory’ . Why are we allowing this racist influence our youth and teach them absolute nonsense

Because it's been fashionably embraced by other countries. God knows, Ireland has to follow in step with others. When I was young, the belief was that we were 5-10 years behind the UK, and that we'd mimic whatever they did. Now the UK is pretty much out of the picture, we've moved to mimic the US.. sucking up to the nation of the multinational companies, and the source of all this woke nonsense.

It doesn't matter that the US is tearing itself apart due to their particular promotion of diversity. It doesn't matter that debt financing has created a massive financial/economic bubble. It doesn't matter that their politics are corrupt as F. We're going to follow them.. Yay.