What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Marcos

I think that certain people on here would be only too happy to shut down any threads like this, because as has been shown so many times on here, they have no counter arguments. So please be aware of this and don't fall for it.

ExMachina1000

Wrong poster was thread banned.

Granadino

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it's been fashionably embraced by other countries. God knows, Ireland has to follow in step with others. When I was young, the belief was that we were 5-10 years behind the UK, and that we'd mimic whatever they did. Now the UK is pretty much out of the picture, we've moved to mimic the US.. sucking up to the nation of the multinational companies, and the source of all this woke nonsense.

It doesn't matter that the US is tearing itself apart due to their particular promotion of diversity. It doesn't matter that debt financing has created a massive financial/economic bubble. It doesn't matter that their politics are corrupt as F. We're going to follow them.. Yay.

Good point. Why can't we mimic our EU neighbours?

Wibbs

Granadino wrote: »

Good point. Why can't we mimic our EU neighbours?

In culture, history, economics and and language we're far closer to London and Washington than Paris or Berlin.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

In culture, history, economics and and language we're far closer to London and Washington than Paris or Berlin.

I think people forget the importance of language. We shared our media with both the US and the UK, from TV to music, and a lot of culture is passed around through the following of those expressions. Whether it's the punk culture, the grunge culture, rock n roll, etc. All of which had a strong influence over the development of youth culture, which, in turn, affected how society at most levels evolved.

All the same with the creation of the EU, and greater migration of EU citizens we're seeing a greater amount of exchange happening. The last few times I walked around Dublin or Galway, I noticed far more "continental" behavior as opposed to the more gloomy aspects of the British, which I often associated with Ireland.

It's one of the reasons I support our participation in the EU so much. If we can move away from the UK/US as our main source of culture, and approach to values, and form better connections with our European neighbors, I think Irish people will be much happier. Although, I have to admit that opinion is based on Europe of the last two decades, rather than what Europe might evolve into.

I was in France last year, and I didn't like the fear/suspicion which could be found in most towns (I tend to avoid cities in France).

Granadino

Granadino wrote: »

Good point. Why can't we mimic our EU neighbours?

We are.. but as Wibbs pointed out, we have a greater connection with the UK/US. I put it down to language, since I've rarely heard French/German/Spanish music here, whereas you'll find all the UK/US music easily available. Funnily enough, my parents have reams of music from European countries.. so it seems we used to have a greater exchange of culture with Europe, than we have today.

whysobecause

Deleted User wrote: »

For the very reason you raised. To have a voice in how the country is run. Citizenship. It's important. Hence the discussion at hand.

And... it's not huge money. It's about 1k euro for the certificate, so.. say about 2k after all the paperwork, solicitor fees etc are done.



So, you believe that anyone, at all, if they are in a country, should be able to vote in elections?

Citizenship carries protections too. Holding an Irish passport, and being Irish, is of tremendous benefit while living abroad, due to the general reputation of the country.



Now... this was particularly dishonest/misleading of you.. You stated earlier that you were in Ireland for 30 years, which suggested (considering the context of the discussion) that you were not a native Irish person. Hence taking the view of someone who was in Ireland, but not Irish, and contributing their views of immigration in Ireland.

You misunderstood, or misinterpreted Hamachi's post. I don't know whether it was intentional, or a mistake, but you've decided to double down since then. Why? Why not admit you misunderstood, rather than pushing something that you have no personal investment in? Just seems strange.

I have a cousin in America, her grandmother was from Ireland, she got a Irish passport for safety reasons. Her America based job took her around the world, traveling under a Irish passport was better than a US one, especial in countries in the Middle East.

whysobecause

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Back on topic before one poster gets this thread shut down with their insane ramblings.

I see over the last week Irelands professional racist Ebun Joseph has been doing zoom calls with college students across the land about ‘critical race theory’ . Why are we allowing this racist influence our youth and teach them absolute nonsense

Has Ebun Joseph every had a real job, meaning a job that is not a government or government retaliated job.

Eric Cartman

whysobecause wrote: »

Has Ebun Joseph every had a real job, meaning a job that is not a government or government retaliated job.

Not to my knowledge, it seems hating the native white Irish has been her only profession.

whysobecause

whysobecause wrote: »

I have a cousin in America, her grandmother was from Ireland, she got a Irish passport for safety reasons. Her America based job took her around the world, traveling under a Irish passport was better than a US one, especial in countries in the Middle East.

I have an American friend who I met in China, with whom I tend to travel with. He's one of those Americans who is very proud of his heritage. Very proud. A fifth Cherokee Indian, a fifth German, A fifth Jewish, a fifth African American, and a fifth Scottish.. Yup, I've heard him bring up his heritage many times, and he tends to shift association with them depending on the situation. US passport. He'll meet people and he'll say he's <whatever> but yes, he's American. In a pinch. And he's very quick to push the prestige and power of being an American citizen.

The problem is that I have no interest in traveling west, so we tend to travel east. Asia, Africa, Russia, etc. This is where my interest rests, and we usually do weekenders, or longer stints hitting the 1st/2nd tier cities and some countryside in various countries. I did a couple of trips to the M.East, but he didn't join me, except for Israel.. because their department of foreign affairs recommended him not to go. Fair enough.

My passport/citizenship has opened so many doors to me. Everyone loves the Irish. We fit the bill for so many situations. We drink, so we can relax in almost any situation. We have a history of being very devout, so we get some respect from everyone that way. We have a reputation for brawling, so we get some respect, even when there's no actual hostility involved. And oddly enough, our peacekeeping contributions have gained us a huge amount of respect. It's a great reputation we have.. Oh, and for those here who hate the RCC... I've lost count of the number of people who have helped me because they encountered a priest/nun from Ireland, and they wanted to help someone from that country (this was mostly in Africa).

Whereas with my friend, I've had to try bail him out of so many situations because he's American. The associations are mostly negative. Oh, there's some respect for being the worlds superpower, and the perception of being a rich country, but, God, they can receive so much hostility and distrust, just for their allegiance to the US.

He's been brought in for questioning over spying on more than one occasion. So have I, but... it's easy to laugh off the idea of Ireland having a spy operation, when you point out the size of our military. Not so easy for him to explain it away.. although I've found that traveling together, my own citizenship provides a bubble somewhat for him.

I find that the people who don't value citizenship, have never really traveled outside of western nations. They don't really appreciate the doors that can be opened or closed based on the perceptions of low level officials, who might have heard of your country (I've known many people who had never even heard of Ireland, but loved Riverdance...) And having an EU passport has helped a lot in recent years, especially in China. The EU has some decent influence abroad, and the perception of being part of it, can be a nice piece of influence to dangle in negotiations when you're dealing with something political.

I think people need to travel more outside of western nations, and I don't mean a sun/lads holiday. You'll quickly appreciate your citizenship when you run into some difficulties, like stumbling into a missile launch facility, by accident. (No signs, just perfect roads, and loads of cameras in the middle of nowhere.... how were we supposed to know?)

ExMachina1000

https://twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1336677899953459204?s=20

Great news

Eric Cartman

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1336677899953459204?s=20

Great news

It would have been a perfect time to catch a load of illegal migrants. I never thought id ever hope a politician was telling lies until now.

Rodin

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It would have been a perfect time to catch a load of illegal migrants. I never thought id ever hope a politician was telling lies until now.

By 'compassionate', read 'soft'.

Why would you be compassionate towards someone for whom it was decided they'd no legal right to be here?

ExMachina1000

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It would have been a perfect time to catch a load of illegal migrants. I never thought id ever hope a politician was telling lies until now.

They wont tell the immigration authorities. This is from the justice department. They are the immigration authorities!

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

By 'compassionate', read 'soft'.

Why would you be compassionate towards someone for whom it was decided they'd no legal right to be here?

Because laws don't matter when people are in need.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we find out at some stage, that housing/financial supports had been provided, by the government, to people who are not in DP, and are clearly illegal/undocumented immigrants.

Laws only matter when you're a citizen and a taxpayer.

Rodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Because laws don't matter when people are in need.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we find out at some stage, that housing/financial supports had been provided, by the government, to people who are not in DP, and are clearly illegal/undocumented immigrants.

Laws only matter when you're a citizen and a taxpayer.

Probably gave them a Christmas bonus too.

The Leftie-Leaders are a disgrace and the people who follow them mere sheep.
We need a centre-right party here.

Arthur Daley

Rodin wrote: »

Probably gave them a Christmas bonus too.

The Leftie-Leaders are a disgrace and the people who follow them mere sheep.
We need a centre-right party here.

Yeah, even a party right of centre would be a healthy thing. In reality we know that there is a fag paper between Sinn Fein, FF and FG no matter what they say, or what image they try to project. Their track records prove it.

goose2005

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1336677899953459204?s=20

Great news

tbh this is sensible, the virus doesn't know if someone is a citizen or not and everyone needs to be vaccinated for herd immunity to work.

ExMachina1000

goose2005 wrote: »

tbh this is sensible, the virus doesn't know if someone is a citizen or not and everyone needs to be vaccinated for herd immunity to work.

Not a hope everybody will be vaccinated

If they are removed from the country it won't matter if they are vaccinated or not

If they are hiding from the authorities they shouldn't be here

How many do you think there are?

Gervais08

whysobecause wrote: »

Has Ebun Joseph every had a real job, meaning a job that is not a government or government retaliated job.

Technically yes, she works as a - don’t laugh - student careers advisor.

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

tbh this is sensible, the virus doesn't know if someone is a citizen or not and everyone needs to be vaccinated for herd immunity to work.

For the entire (registered) population of Ireland to be vaccinated, it would likely take a rather long time (like 6 mths to a year), considering supply/stocks of the vaccine, whenever it does arrive. It's entirely too early to be taking any comfort in the idea of herd immunity acquired through the distribution of a vaccine.

In any case, if immigrants have been dodging the government bodies for this long, it's unlikely such an initiative would work. It's more likely that it'll be distributed, and those migrants can acquire it third party.

Still, I'm always amazed at the willingness to put foreigners interests ahead of Irish people.. considering that we should be wanting Irish people to be vaccinated first. But nope.

goose2005

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not a hope everybody will be vaccinated

If they are removed from the country it won't matter if they are vaccinated or not

If they are hiding from the authorities they shouldn't be here

How many do you think there are?

I don't know, the news says 17,000 so the real figure is probably more like 50,000. Most live in cramped urban settings and work in service jobs, so i think they possibly should be a priority

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

I don't know, the news says 17,000 so the real figure is probably more like 50,000. Most live in cramped urban settings and work in service jobs, so i think they possibly should be a priority

Why?

Once again, why make foreigners (who are breaking our immigration laws) a priority over Irish people? Any vaccine that comes to Ireland will be in short supply for ages (the richer countries will have first dibbs).. doesn't it make more sense to help those who contribute the most? (since they're paying for the vaccine)

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why?

Once again, why make foreigners (who are breaking our immigration laws) a priority over Irish people? Any vaccine that comes to Ireland will be in short supply for ages (the richer countries will have first dibbs).. doesn't it make more sense to help those who contribute the most? (since they're paying for the vaccine)

By vaccinating people who live in very close proximity in conditions where they cannot socially distance you are reducing the risk of an outbreak that will spread to the wider community. Its not prioritising people, its slowing and reducing the spread of the virus by targettibg environments where it spreads rapidly and puts the wider community at risk.

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

By vaccinating people who live in very close proximity in conditions where they cannot socially distance you are reducing the risk of an outbreak that will spread to the wider community. Its not prioritising people, its slowing and reducing the spread of the virus by targettibg environments where it spreads rapidly and puts the wider community at risk.

And based on past experiences of the virus, do we have any evidence that this is the case, as opposed to those people involved not taking precautions? A vaccine doesn't mean that people will become entirely immune.. if they're not taking the required precautions, a vaccine will be of limited value.

TBH it makes more sense to simply deport them.

SixtaWalthers

No doubt, skilled labour, high-efficiency rate, creativity, improved regional trade features and more respect among communities are benefits of multiculturalism. Still, I strongly disagree that multiculturalism and immigration is the same thing.

SixtaWalthers

SixtaWalthers wrote: »

Still, I strongly disagree that multiculturalism and immigration is the same thing.

Who said that they were?

SixtaWalthers wrote: »

No doubt, skilled labour, high-efficiency rate, creativity, improved regional trade features and more respect among communities are benefits of multiculturalism.

Oh, I have plenty of doubts on that score. Look at the composition of immigration into the country. When it concerns high-skilled labor, your statement above has some relevance, however, the numbers of migrants without high-skills/education, far outweigh those with. So.. what are the benefits then?

And improved regional trade features? That makes little sense. Expand on that point?

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And based on past experiences of the virus, do we have any evidence that this is the case, as opposed to those people involved not taking precautions? A vaccine doesn't mean that people will become entirely immune.. if they're not taking the required precautions, a vaccine will be of limited value.

TBH it makes more sense to simply deport them.

You understand the 2 metre distance rule? The need to self isolate if a infected or a contact? Bit hard to do either when you sleep several to a room and are sharing living spaces for eating etc. You heard of the outbreaks in Nursing homes? Should we deport the residents? Direct provision centres? Meat packing plants? If you deport them you are just deporting the virus and waiting to import it again. Better to try and eradicate it quickly and you do this by targeting those most at risk if catching and spreading to multiple people.

ThunbergsAreGo

Gervais08 wrote: »

Technically yes, she works as a - don’t laugh - student careers advisor.

She is as dangerous on the often talked about by the media, often derided by everyone far right.

So so divisive

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

You understand the 2 metre distance rule? The need to self isolate if a infected or a contact? Bit hard to do either when you sleep several to a room and are sharing living spaces for eating etc.

Oh, I understand quite a lot. Like wearing adequate face masks, regular washing of hands, good ventilation of small areas, etc. You can still minimize the risks involved. I know people whose partner got covid, they shared the same living areas, ate in proximity to each other, and the virus didn't spread. Strange that, no?

You heard of the outbreaks in Nursing homes? Should we deport the residents? Direct provision centres? Meat packing plants? If you deport them you are just deporting the virus and waiting to import it again.

First off, the comment about deporting people from nursing homes is dramatic crap, and if you really want me to respect your opinions, leave out the juvenile point scoring.

Secondly, there's been little hard research done on the manner in which the virus spread in the meat packing plants. Just plenty of assumptions.

Third, if we deport them, they're not getting back in because they've already broken our immigration laws once. Hence, they're not the kind of people we really want here.. no? After all, I assume you want people to respect our laws, and culture?

Better to try and eradicate it quickly and you do this by targeting those most at risk if catching and spreading to multiple people.

Eradicate? Err.. I suspect you have a much different perception of what covid is, and what a possible vaccine represents. In any case, that's for the covid threads, and not for this one.